Does anyone know any cities where salaries are high and the cost of living is low for a life style quality that some may consider being average to high?
| +113 | Bathroom War Crimes | 26 | 1d |
| +81 | We all should've gotten in tech | 38 | 11h |
| +32 | Stealth-Listening Devices | 8 | 4d |
| +15 | LinkedIn Shitposts | 7 | 9h |
| +13 | JPMorgan Exec Canned After Stealing Knicks Trash Can on Camera - How Bad Is This for Exit Opps? | 6 | 2d |
| +13 | Totally random question | 6 | 4d |
| +12 | Handling frustration | 0 | 4h |
| +11 | Pickleball Manhattan | 4 | 4d |
| +9 | Ordering Valium Online: Key Considerations | 0 | 6d |
| +7 | Pres Made 1B Off Pump and Dumps | 3 | 6h |
Career Resources
Get instant access to lessons taught by experienced private equity pros and bulge bracket investment bankers including financial statement modeling, DCF, M&A, LBO, Comps and Excel Modeling.
Atlanta and Nashville
pretty sure there are articles out there on this.
texas, NC
Charlotte, NC
Atlanta, Houston, Charlotte
Oil rigs
You've never woken up with 4 guys in your tiny dorm room to put on your oil mud-sweat ridden suit to go work 12 hours in Texas heat. And then when you're not busy tripping pipe or lifting other heavy bullshit you have to pressure wash everything which will immediately get dirty again.
You're there for 1-2 weeks. The only town is 30 miles away and there's 2 gas stations and a supermarket and you're ecstatic because you can get real food because your rig is close to a town. There's 1 bar you and your rig mates sometimes go to and if you're lucky on any given night there is 1 semi cute girl.
Air conditioned job in a cheap suburbia city please.
Austin, Dallas, Houston, & San Antonio if you're looking at Texas
Good job listing the 4 biggest cities in Texas.
Arizona.
Crabber boats :)
Seattle. Especially when you factor in taxation.
Is this a joke?
Not at all. It may be different for other industries and functions but for tech it's a pretty drastic difference. The avg "tech worker" in SF/Bay Area makes $118k vs $104k in Seattle, but state taxes alone is almost enough to make up that difference. Housing costs are 70% more in the Bay Area than in Seattle (on average) even though real-estate has been on a tear for the past few years. You can play around with different inputs for cost of living but ultimately you need to make about 50% more in the Bay Area to be comparable to Seattle. That doesn't make Seattle "cheap" but it is a place where your dollar goes further.
Texas, In particular Houston. Dallas is pretty cheap and a lot of fun but then you have all the douche-bag plastic millionaires to compete with. Austin is kind of the same way, just with the liberal-tech-hipsters.
I can confirm this.
Feel like this applies to Houston, Atlanta, and to an extent even Los Angeles (although it isn't cheap but the fake wealth is still prominent) as well, the whole "30k millionaire" saying.
Then you haven't spent much time in Dallas... Or Houston... Or probably Atlanta (although neither have I)... and you made my point for me on LA.
I live in Dallas and have spent a lot of time in LA. Living in Dallas you will develop a special type of hate for all the SMU kids waiving their parents credit card around and acting like they own every bar in town. Los Angeles is extremely self absorbed and one of my least favorite cities.
Dont Dallas my Houston, bra. Austin is the only place in Texas with an average to high quality lifestyle (IMHO). There you can enjoy the outdoors a bit and there is some diversity in the topography. Houston people are more genuine Dallas folk. Dallas has more diversity in industry - Houston is Energy all the way. Id rank them as follows: 1.) Austin 2.) Houston (where I live) 3. Dallas
Any sense of what the PE & MM/EB IB scenes looks like in Dallas in terms of size and industry focus? Been thinking about moving to Dallas because of the above, and I have family out there.
Well the Good thing about Dallas is there is a ton of capital. So PE is strong, lots of family offices. But, most of the big banks (EB) are in Houston and don't have a Dallas presence anymore, but some of the top shops have a presence in Dallas, doing oftentimes less popular FO work. Also MM shops do quite well because the economy is extremely diversified and business friendly, so there is a ton of work to do outside of oil.
There are "douche-bag" oil millionaires you have to compete with in Houston, no?
Why is everyone who's a millionaire a douche bag? Starting to sound like a bunch of Bernie Sanders wealth redistribution types here.
"Texas, In particular Houston. Dallas is pretty cheap and a lot of fun but then you have all the douche-bag plastic millionaires to compete with. Austin is kind of the same way, just with the liberal-tech-hipsters."
Been to Dallas quite a bit; lived in Houston. Fully confirm the above.
The oil millionaires in Houston just aren't that big of douchebags. Most of the time they're actually pretty down to earth. Love hunting, the open air, and freedom. They just tend to be 'simpler' people than what one would expect.
Dallas is fake as all get out. People are more absorbed in what others think of them than in any other city I've lived, including Boston, Chicago, Nashville, and SF.
Agree with the above. The old oil wealth is very traditional and conservative in the christian sense. Some really upstanding people.
Also, irrespective of Southern Charm and shining Texas morality, most of this is old wealth of the type and magnitude that is not attractive to flaunt. For example, the way we know that Trump is only a millionaire is he says he's a billionaire.
Edit: wait a second are we circle-jerking?
Honestly, it's really difficult to beat the economics: delivering tier 1 value in a tier 2 city is tough to do unless your work is location independent...
Big fan of Charlotte
Understanding that high salaries / low CoL are relative, and many of the cities here have a much bigger gap, but this is the main reason I like Philly. Only problem is the good finance gigs are few and far between.
Yeah agreed on Philly. Cheap rent, all the big city stuff, just not a lot of finance seats.
If this is your goal, I highly recommend getting some time at a F500 in a big city and then relocating at some point. My F500 in the Chicago suburbs pays pretty well, but when my colleagues are transferring to Atlanta, Detroit, Indiana, even Sweden and China (if that's your thing), they are living like kings.
This is at the CFO level which is fairly well compensated, but it helps at lower levels as well.
Surprised no one on here mentioned Chicago...if you are making street comp in Chicago, you will have A LOT of money in your savings account at the end of your first year.
Agreed, and Chicago has WAY more finance jobs than any of the cities named above.
Very true. Almost all the BB's, MMs, and EB's have offices there, and it is the hub for commodities/futures and prop trading.
http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/outside-nycsf-how-would-you-rate-…
Link to a more detailed comment on another post I wrote a month ago for your reference, OP.
Agreed. Not to mention S&T is pretty good there. IMO I would put NY, Chicago, and Boston as places on my top list.
I am sure many people would put NYC up there as well but it doesn't exactly fit into the low COL category...
Most expensive cities to live in the United States in order: 1) San Fran 2) NYC 3) Boston Boston is very expensive
Wasn't expecting this.
which part?
Minneapolis has pretty low COL. Someone mentioned Seattle and I don't really agree with that on an absolute level, though relative to SF / NYC obviously lower.
Low Cost-of-Living areas with IB/Finance/HedgeFund jobs? (Originally Posted: 01/26/2012)
Any ideas what are some low cost-of-living metro areas with IB or other Finance jobs available?
I'm interested in keeping my cost of living as low as possible while raking in as much income as possible. If I invest it all at even a modest rate, say, 10% a year compounded, I might be able to my my first $1 million in less than 10 years.
If this is my goal, would it be a better strategy to find a job in a low cost of living area, say, Houston or Birmingham, AL instead of NYC, Chicago, Los Angeles, etc. I see CFA test centers located in those low cost of living cities so I'm taking it there are jobs for them there too!
& they have Lazard IBD.
Piper, Houlihan, GHF (now BMO), Harris Williams, and Lazard MM to name a few. Key point is Lazard MM =/= Lazard
Lazard MM - it's only industrials/chemical/ag in that office. It's a smaller office with analyst classes of ~4. Piper is solid for healthcare and specifically medtech, Harris Williams has a tiny office that does strictly consumer, HL has an office that does RX and industrials (really weird culture at this office), and BMO (formerly GHF) as of this summer.
10% is moderate? Where do I sign up?
Google the Harry Browne Portfolio.. save fees and implement it yourself; no need to pay me or anyone else to sign up.
I'd think any big Texas city would be on the list, Houston especially. I'd love to work in oil/gas IB there.
Lots of HF/PE in Dallas.
Houston Oil & Gas. Nothing better, nothing cheaper
Houston is a shithole. Dallas and Austin are pretty awesome though.
Except there is no defining industry in Dallas or Austin. Op was inquiring about IB/HF/Finance gigs. The only one of those two would be Dallas, but all it has is AM and a few HF's. IB and S&T for the state is all in Houston.
you should check out Charlotte, moreso for banking
There are certainly not as many finance gigs in Austin and Dallas as there are in Houston, but there certainly are some very large funds in each of those cities.
http://www.dfaus.com/firm/overview.html https://www.hbk.com/user_sessions/new
And some others. I can't imagine somebody willingly choosing Houston over either of the other two cities if jobs had the equivalent exit ops and pay, which should be possible for many,
There are no finance gigs in Austin... the 'rents have tried convincing me to search for jobs there (close to home) but you'd be crazy to want to stay there long-term for finance. Only places are a few PE and AM, and they don't do anything large. In general, Austin is not the place to go if you want to do finance, unless you have some huge burning desire to be in a clean energy PE boutique.
Dallas has some good places from what I hear, but the city itself has no personality and is boring as hell. Houston is, as someone else said, "a shithole"... overpopulated, all the negatives of a big city (pollution, stuffiness) without the accompanying class of a place like Chicago or NYC. It sucks - I'm a Texan native, I can say these things.
In general how is cost-of-living in Chicago? I know it's less than NYC and Boston but any other information/experiences people can share?
Chicago can be quite low in terms of cost of living. It highly depends on how and where you would like to live.
A 2br/2ba in a decent area that is completely brand new with parking will go for under $2k all-in (so with a roommate, under $1k). I know people with decent sized 1brs in Lincoln Park and Gold Coast for just over $1k/mo.
Meals/drinks are reasonably priced most places.
I'd have to recommend Charlotte too, as BAML and Wells Fargo/Wachovia still employ quite a few people in their offices there. Really cheap cost of living and a decent city.
Charlotte or Houston are def cheap as hell. I'd lean more towards Charlotte (better weather)
Hong Kong
Rent for a semi-decent place is killer though....
I suppose if you're a foreigner and can qualify for housing you'd get that subsidized. Or you could choose to live a bit farther away from the key financial district(s). Now that they've opened up the mtr to sai ying pun and Kennedy town, those could be somewhat cheaper options if your work place is in central or admiralty.
Xanadu
Johannesburg, South Africa. Despite common perceptions about safety/crime levels (partly warranted), the lifestyle can be pretty awesome (swimming pool, garden, staff) for those even with 'middle-class' earnings by global measures.
KSA and the UAE
Utopia
Chippewa Falls, WI..
Lol at Chippewa Falls Wi
Milwaukee is actually highly underrated with Baird headquartered there.
Not really. Baird ER is the only solid office in Milwaukee, and I think their comp is much lower than street (which offsets the COL advantage). If you do IB for Baird, you better be in Chicago if you want exits.
You could not pay me enough money to live in Milwaukee.
Definitely Charlotte, NC. You have BAML/Wells with plenty of investment banking jobs in addition to a strong presence from BB&T, Fifth Third, tons of boutiques, and lots of other banks I did not list.
Charlotte is cheaper than cities like Atlanta and the TX cities primarily given cheaper real estate. You can definitely afford to buy a nice condo in charlotte's downtown (they call it uptown) on an analyst salary.
I am a dual American-Canadian citizen and I have seen on this site that Toronto is amazing for junior level employees because you get paid NYC salaries. Toronto is low cost and considering current currency rates, you have far more spending power.
Definitely not salaries but certainly all-in comp is in range. CoL there is relatively high though. All-in comp for say a 2nd year analyst is probably ~C$150k, which will put you in the top tax bracket of ~45% with rent of $1,800/month for an average 1 bedroom condo and $8-10 well drinks at a normal bar.
Atlanta. Few front office finance seats, but the ones that are there (think STRH, RayJay) pay street. These guys live like kings from day 1.
The reality is a high finance position or even a decent F500 or Big 4 job pretty much anywhere excluding a handful of coastal cities and states will pay well and be paired with a low COL. The issue is barring a couple of low(ER) COL cities (Charlotte, Atlanta, Chicago, Houston, Dallas) you give up a tremendous amount of optionality. If you're in Omaha you can't say fuck it and walk across the street, there are only so many shops.
Also, wages are sticky. For better or worse it may make sense to spend 3 years in NYC, get the pedigree and the higher wages and then go to a smaller city.
Couldn't have said it better myself. Especially early in your career, I think the optionality afforded to those in major cities far outweighs the higher COL. Over the course of your hopefully successful career, that extra 10k a year you might save being in a smaller city probably won't make that much of a difference. (Please don't come at me with the "power of compounding" etc.)
However, i think there is a point when you probably have a pretty good idea what you will be doing for the next 10-15 years and this is when you should probably place a heavier weight on COL versus optionality.
^^^ 100%. establishing your career in NYC (or a comparable city like London) will exponentially benefit you in long term w career progress and compensation. You gain experience, networking, pedigree, etc you would never get in a place like Charlotte or Atlanta. justify all you want, but if your goal is to make high six/low seven figures while still doing the WSO rat race you need to start (but not stay forever as mentioned above) in a real market.
The "power of compounding" line was great. SB'd.
I agree with this in part but it really depends on goals. If you are 100% prestige focused and your goal is top IBD -> Megafund then you need to work in NYC/London as the concentration of these jobs will be higher than anywhere else and increases your odds. Also need to keep in mind that there are plenty of people who do BB NYC and end up having very average careers. The number of spots available is limited and there is tons of competition. Coming back to PE post-MBA and getting on the VP track is ultra competitive, in ANY market regardless of whether you have done NYC BB or not. In fact, regional PE will prefer those with ties to their market.
There are very limited top 1% jobs out there and far too many people chasing them, it's purely an odds game.
End of the day what matters is what you want to do with your life. You can make great money working in regional IB and set yourself up for a great and less stressful (relatively) career path in a city outside of NYC.
Keep in mind you have strong groups based in CLT such as BAML Lev Fin. I doubt that the SunTrust or KeyBank MDs living in regional offices like Atlanta/CLT etc. are complaining and wishing they were at some Megafund, they're enjoying life and their relatively laid back lifestyle.
I'd say the NYC argument makes sense for undergrads and those early on in their career as there are a ton of finance jobs you could lateral to without ever having to locate. Options will be more limited in other markets and you may have to move should you wish to do something else. With that said, there are plenty of folks that have started as an An/As in a regional shop and worked their way through the ranks to Director/MD and are enjoying the lifestyle. Don't think you have to live in NYC to have a successful banking career.
I currently live and work in a non-NYC/SF/Chicago city, I wasn't thinking solely in terms of elite finance jobs, but what I'll call the "broad elite" tier of jobs. My ability to walk across the street or to go into corporate finance/biz dev/strat is somewhat constrained and the issue is the litany of related services that NYC/SF/Chicago built up around banking is far more limited in other cities.
In NYC you not only have the sell side and buy side, but you have the Big 4 with all the TAS groups, a huge corporate and commercial banking presence, numerous F500 HQs supporting good paying finance jobs. Ultimately just like social media, business has a network effect and businesses tend to cluster. With all that said as you get further down the career path the value of optionality declines. Also, my quality of life is a lot better than in NYC.
Arizona has cheap living if you are at a F500 you'll thoroughly enjoy yourself.
Two places that I would strongly consider are Charlotte and Philadelphia. Both have much lower cost of living than NY or SF, but unlike some of these other low COL cities, Charlotte and Philadelphia are three to five hours away from pretty much anything: beach, larger cities, mountains, etc.
I don't think Philly and Charlotte are even comparable except in their national position in terms of finance jobs.
One major difference is that Philly is the 5th largest city in the country. I think people often forget that because this site is skewed to finance. It's way larger than Boston or San Fran for example. In Philly, you can live easily without a car and enjoy a real city lifestyle which cannot be said for Charlotte.
Also, the shore points are about 1h 15min from Philadelphia while Myrtle Beach is roughly 3h 45min from Charlotte. That's a pretty meaningful difference when you want to be a regular weekender in a seasonal rental house.
There are plenty of other advantages to Philly compared to Charlotte e.g. being able to fly from PHL, 3 NYC airports, and BWI, decent public transit, amazing sports culture, numerous colleges, etc.
I will concede that there are not enough FO finance seats for a city it's size, but I'm not sure there are that many less than Charlotte in Philly.
You're obviously 100%. I did not mean to say that both cities were similar. As you said, they aren't.
Have you ever been to Charlotte? You don't need a car, especially if you are living in Uptown, which if you're an analyst or associate is the most likely scenario. Secondly, you can live a "real" city lifestyle, there's a skyline, cultural venues and a far more robust finance scene. PHL is a dump of an airport and a real bitch to connect through, Douglas is a whole hell of a lot nicer and is also an American hub. Sports in Charlotte are also decent, NBA and NFL, plus semi-pro baseball and hockey.
I'd rather go to Emerald Isle than the Jersey Shore, secondly you can be in the mountains in an hour and a half.
Surprised Phoenix hasn't been mentioned more often. Cheap CoL (especially real estate), great salaries. It's a 4 sports team city with plenty to do and lots of good neighborhoods.
Other solid places: Charlotte, Denver, Salt Lake City, Atlanta.
If you're looking for a big change, go for Panama, Thailand, Czech Republic, Austria, etc.
I live in Salt Lake City currently. You can find single bedroom apartments for as low as $700 per month. If you are looking for a healthy salary, the finance and tech sectors are growing very quickly. Also, if you are an avid skier/snowboarder, you can't find a better place to live. The snow here is phenomenal, and SLC is only a 45 minute drive from 9 different ski resorts. In the summer, you have great hiking, rock climbing, and mountain biking in your backyard.
People are usually turned off to the idea of moving to SLC because of the Mormon community, but there are not nearly as many Mormons here as in the rest of Utah. I hang out with a staunchly godless crew on the weekends, but I get along very well with the LDS people I work with.
"douchebag" millionaire oilmen....... wow. I smell envy and idiocy. I've met several well-to-do families well entrenched in the Oil & Gas industry at Houston and they are some of the most humble people I know. Much more cordial and down-to-earth due to southern hospitality compared to the spunk and spit from NYC. Get the fuck out of here kid.
WOOF, someone has a bone to pick with dem yankees up north
Chicago and Philly are cool
No way I'd live in a red state. Cost of living? More like cost of misery
IMO, Chicago and Philly are the only two cities where you get a big city feel and lifestyle coupled with affordable RE and general COL. I'm not saying other cities aren't great to live in, but this is very specific criteria above.
Having said the above, Chicago and Philly are also very different in terms of culture. Philly is more provincial (like Boston) and Chicago is a major hub for the entire midwest/central region of the country. Philly is more of a medical hub (big pharma, biotechs, top hospitals, UPenn etc) whereas Chicago is much more geared toward finance (especially capital markets/trading). The people are pretty different in the two cities as well (east coast slight harshness vs midwestern easy going).
Just my take
So far the bankers I've run into with the highest take-home income are people at solid regional shops in tier 2 cities. Charlotte and Atlanta in particular. Minneapolis is up there but has fewer opportunities in financial services or related exit opportunities as far as I can tell....not bad by any means though.
I have a Norwegian friend who is working for Statoil in Polen, with a Norwegian salary.
tl;dr: major cities in the South
Detroit Metro Area. I've made a good amount of money the past few years. Able to buy a house, car, toys and go out occasionally while still saving a good chunk of cash left over to save.
Chicago is a top choice -- finance and consulting jobs pay within 10% of NYC rates but cost of living is much lower. In particular housing (both as renter or owner) and dining out/entertainment. Downside is the smaller number of available positions. Check out Numbeo's cost of living comparison calculator.
Consequatur delectus officiis nihil quis sit quis. Sed corporis perspiciatis officiis sit dolore.
Maxime porro quaerat dolores accusamus ut corporis. Sed aut expedita possimus adipisci mollitia architecto. Suscipit rerum autem optio quis. Inventore necessitatibus voluptatum est qui soluta assumenda eum dolores. Nulla cupiditate omnis perspiciatis ut et at repudiandae.
Odio est quisquam aperiam provident ex in. Et similique ut explicabo ut illum facere.
Quis enim totam quia occaecati velit enim non. In ratione maiores et quo consectetur corporis in. Rerum temporibus aut eveniet quae enim quis. Eligendi repellendus quia quis quia exercitationem earum. Officia sit modi perferendis.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...
Dolor voluptatem eos molestias omnis qui reprehenderit et fuga. Dolor labore ut sit. Suscipit harum aut voluptatem itaque molestiae voluptas. Ipsa molestiae consequatur corrupti dignissimos. Nulla facilis molestias illo vitae. Quis qui molestias ut debitis architecto in.
Nihil fugiat omnis rem quaerat adipisci repellat. Nihil repudiandae cum accusantium sit soluta deleniti est. Saepe cum veritatis est et aut et odio non. Et id sed quia illum sunt.
Quia cupiditate libero fugit. Harum et commodi occaecati. Similique eligendi sequi ex fugiat. Numquam nulla et non veritatis. Quis sequi facere rerum ea.
Commodi id modi nisi distinctio ipsam ut perferendis. Rerum placeat assumenda est eveniet eius nam laudantium. Voluptatem magni quia exercitationem sequi tenetur eos.
Blanditiis nisi id modi et. Minus quos quidem similique iusto. Nostrum eum animi accusantium quibusdam perspiciatis. Quo qui sit distinctio architecto rerum itaque illo. Fugit dolore molestias aut nulla.
Culpa est consequatur veniam quia harum. Culpa omnis deleniti sunt cumque non asperiores iste. Alias et quia nobis fuga rerum minus quae. Odit corrupti enim cum tenetur voluptas molestiae voluptatem.
Explicabo facilis enim quaerat placeat et et. Sint sed eius aut porro repellat. Modi eos incidunt officiis vel quo vitae. Assumenda totam quam quia suscipit dignissimos maiores.
Itaque vitae non nisi ex iure molestiae labore. Aut repellat et eum enim sit ipsam voluptatibus et. Accusantium qui illum vitae ducimus consequuntur sequi nostrum. Est nihil repellendus quis adipisci voluptate.
Atque voluptatem necessitatibus quidem. Corporis ad rerum repudiandae ut cum tempore dolor. Ut et eveniet labore ut impedit. Voluptas rerum distinctio eius a eum omnis. Animi eligendi recusandae et debitis enim. Placeat laudantium provident non vero. Ut ipsum fugiat blanditiis tenetur.
Ea voluptatem quia unde nostrum nobis. Sit exercitationem in quia deserunt necessitatibus voluptatem molestiae.
Enim repellat architecto ducimus dicta quia non enim ratione. Provident earum autem praesentium vel nemo qui. Rem alias sed praesentium delectus quaerat temporibus. Vel aliquam neque et sunt. Dolores quasi quos et. Sit sunt excepturi id eaque.