Please evaluate if this degree has enough Mathematical Content in it

I will be joining a degree in Accounting and Financial Management this January. But the degree does not have a Calculus course. It has two Quantitative Methods and one statistics.

Will a degree without Calculus hinder my chances of getting into top Masters in Finance at UK?

Also till what level of accounting classes is adequate for Investment Banking?

Comments (12)

Aug 26, 2011

-Double Post

Aug 26, 2011

I think that's fine. Even without calc, it's decently quantitative. You sure you can't take it as an elective though?

Aug 26, 2011
seedy underbelly:

I think that's fine. Even without calc, it's decently quantitative. You sure you can't take it as an elective though?

No the College wont allow. I asked the College and they said that in the choice of optional subjects Calc is not included. Is it quantitative enough to get into top-msf programs with good grades and extracurriculars?

Do MSF programs ask specifically for calc subjects?

Aug 26, 2011

Take Calculus as an extra class. Even if they won't count it as an elective towards your degree, just take one extra class. There's no way they will tell you that you flat out can't take the class.

I can't speak for other schools, but if you tried the MSF at UChicago without having had any calc at all, you'd be toast. And, you'd need more than just a single Calculus class. In fact, you wouldn't even be considered for admission:

http://www-finmath.uchicago.edu/new/msfm/prospecti...

A solid background in Mathematics comparable to a bachelor of science degree in mathematics or another field of physical sciences is essential. You should have solid knowledge of multivariable calculus, linear algebra and differential equations.

Aug 26, 2011
djfiii:

Take Calculus as an extra class. Even if they won't count it as an elective towards your degree, just take one extra class. There's no way they will tell you that you flat out can't take the class.

I can't speak for other schools, but if you tried the MSF at UChicago without having had any calc at all, you'd be toast. And, you'd need more than just a single Calculus class. In fact, you wouldn't even be considered for admission:

http://www-finmath.uchicago.edu/new/msfm/prospecti...

A solid background in Mathematics comparable to a bachelor of science degree in mathematics or another field of physical sciences is essential. You should have solid knowledge of multivariable calculus, linear algebra and differential equations.

Thank you for your advice and link. But I am NOT interested in Financial Mathematics. I am only interested in Masters in Finance. Also 2 more factors will play a role in this
1) I studied Calculus in grade 11 and 12 th, in India. They cover upto Calculas 1 and some elements of Calculas 2. Will that be considered by the prospective college?
2) I want to do masters in UK and USA.

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Aug 26, 2011

Lol, eventually finance degree will be in math department.

Aug 26, 2011

Agreed. I'm not sure what you mean then, by saying you want to get into a top finance program. Chicago is one of the top finance institutions in the world, and there is no "masters in finance". You can either do an MBA at Booth, with a focus on Finance; or you can do the Masters in Financial Mathematics.

Modern Finance is heavily quantitative, and that's just the reality. Avoid programs that emphasize that at your own peril, because they will be obsolete eventually. If I just want to hire someone that can crank out amortization tables and calculate bond yields, I can get someone straight out of an undergraduate Finance degree. What use are you and your non-quantitative Masters degree?

Aug 26, 2011
djfiii:

Agreed. I'm not sure what you mean then, by saying you want to get into a top finance program. Chicago is one of the top finance institutions in the world, and there is no "masters in finance". You can either do an MBA at Booth, with a focus on Finance; or you can do the Masters in Financial Mathematics.

Modern Finance is heavily quantitative, and that's just the reality. Avoid programs that emphasize that at your own peril, because they will be obsolete eventually. If I just want to hire someone that can crank out amortization tables and calculate bond yields, I can get someone straight out of an undergraduate Finance degree. What use are you and your non-quantitative Masters degree?

By master of Finance , I mean LSE Master of Finance or Oxford Msc Financial Economics or Cass/Warwick M of Finance etc. I am have just started taking interest in Finance, so if what I am saying is wrong please correct me.

I have copy pasted the syllabus from LSE A&F below from the below link. Even A&F at LSE does not have a course in Calculus but just some elements of Calculus. Also as far as my knowledge goes Quantitative methods is not same as Calculus. Calculus is just a small part of quantitative Methods and Statistics.

http://www2.lse.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/degreePr...
First year:

(*half unit)

Elements of Accounting and Finance
Economics B
Probability and Statistics for the Social Sciences or Quantitative Methods (Mathematics)*, and Quantitative Methods (Statistics)* or Elementary Statistical Theory+
Mathematical Methods or Basic Quantitative Methods or an outside option+
LSE100 (Lent term only)
+Choice will depend on your previous level of mathematics.

Second year:

Managerial Accounting
Principles of Finance
Microeconomic Principles or Macroeconomic Principles
One option in econometrics, management, business statistics, commercial law or an outside option
LSE100 (Michaelmas term only)
Third year:

Financial Accounting, Analysis and Valuation
One option in accounting
One option in finance
One option from a list including options in accounting, finance, economics, management, business statistics, Commercial Law or an outside option
First year

Aug 26, 2011

Maybe someone else has differing opinions. Obviously LSE and Oxford are great schools, but do IB's even recruit from these specific MSF programs? Those classes are no different than undergrad courses, which makes me think it's more geared toward someone that works in a lower level corporate finance job and just needs to supplement their accounting / finance background a bit to move up.

Take a look at some of the Finance classes that are part of an MBA at Booth:

Financial Instruments
Futures, Forwards, Options & Swaps: Theory and Practice
Portfolio Management
Hedge Fund Investing
Fixed Income Asset Pricing
Financial Engineering: Mathematical Models of Option Pricing and their Estimation
Structured Finance and Insurance
Corporation Finance
Financial Markets and Institutions
The Analytics of Financial Crises
Behavioral and Institutional Finance
Theory of Financial Decisions
...

These all assume proficiency in the classes you listed (stats, macro / micro econ, accounting, basic finance). Other top MBA's have similar offerings. I'm not trying to be overly negative. To answer your question, maybe you can get accepted into those masters programs, but you really should investigate whether or not that matters given your stated goal of Investment Banking.

Aug 26, 2011
djfiii:

Maybe someone else has differing opinions. Obviously LSE and Oxford are great schools, but do IB's even recruit from these specific MSF programs? Those classes are no different than undergrad courses, which makes me think it's more geared toward someone that works in a lower level corporate finance job and just needs to supplement their accounting / finance background a bit to move up.

Take a look at some of the Finance classes that are part of an MBA at Booth:

Financial Instruments
Futures, Forwards, Options & Swaps: Theory and Practice
Portfolio Management
Hedge Fund Investing
Fixed Income Asset Pricing
Financial Engineering: Mathematical Models of Option Pricing and their Estimation
Structured Finance and Insurance
Corporation Finance
Financial Markets and Institutions
The Analytics of Financial Crises
Behavioral and Institutional Finance
Theory of Financial Decisions
...

These all assume proficiency in the classes you listed (stats, macro / micro econ, accounting, basic finance). Other top MBA's have similar offerings. I'm not trying to be overly negative. To answer your question, maybe you can get accepted into those masters programs, but you really should investigate whether or not that matters given your stated goal of Investment Banking.

I guess there is a confusion. The above classes I mentioned are BSc Finance and Accounting at LSE. And what logic I was explaining was that the BSE A&F @LSE does NOT have any Calculus. So do you think, after someone has has completed BSc A&F from LSE someone has to be qualified for MSc in Finance at any good university in the world. It is among the best undergrad school in the world. I may be totally wrong because I have just started reading bout finance online since a month.

Aug 26, 2011

Ah, my mistake. No wonder they appeared to be undergrad business school classes - because they are!

I still think you need to investigate whether banks recruit from those Masters programs. My understanding is that banks focus recruiting on the top MBA programs, but I'm not sure if they include some of the top Msc Finance programs. That would be the first thing you want to find out. Otherwise, why pursue it? So what if you can get accepted, if it doesn't lead you to the job you want?

Aug 26, 2011
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