Post MBA IBD Associate hours
How are the hours for a post MBA business schools">M7 MBA associate in comparison with analysts.
Also how hard is it to get into IBD, post MBA, with a consulting background?
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Are you in a MBA business schools ">M7 MBA program right now?
I am applying for my MBA now, with the ultimate goal of becoming an associate at a BB or MM bank.
It really depends on the bank. Probably 10-20 hours better than an analyst, but I know a bank where they work just as much.
so about 9-9 mon-fri with the occasional weekends?
For the most part it's worse than that. 9-9 mon-fri is only 60 hours. I'd say more like 80 per week, but it definitely depends on the bank, group, etc.
Money is not the #1 driver for me as I have a family. Do you think I should consider MM firms such as HL/ Harris Williams
As an intern they're still pretty bad (100 give or take) as you still have to prove yourself. FT they are still pretty intense, worse than 9-9, especially since the street is doing the protected weekend stuff (i.e. same work load just now compressed during the week).
Spoke to a boutique IBD Post-MBA associate over the weekend. The man is 1-year removed from MBA.
He's standard hours are 80. Scaled to the deal flow. He has peaked at 110 and bottomed at 65.
I would bet that it will be around 80 over time. There will be better weeks, but when deals come up, you are going to get crushed just like the analysts. I work a lot with middle market firms and get emails throughout the night whenever we are working on deals together so I wouldn't say that your hours will be much better in the MM, especially at HL. I think if you are going to go into banking, you just have to expect that your hours will always be bad. Even if you aren't in the office, you will have to be available if something comes up and planning stuff do outside the office will be difficult given the uncertainty of the job. It is just the nature of the business. That said, there will probably be times where you do have 60-65 hour weeks as others have mentioned.
the IBD associate that I networked with when to a top 15 MBA. In terms of work experience, he was an engineer before MBA. Undergrad at an international school, then Masters in the USA. He has worked for about 5-7years before deciding to pursue an MBA.
His reasoning for joining that particular boutique was beacusae of the culture of the company and the desire to get engaged with deal execution(M&A). The firm is very collegiate and non-confrontational, "i'm paraphrasing here". He liked the people there and decided he wanted to work there. He just celebrated he's 1 year annivesary.
Wouldn't pose this question in terms of MBA business schools ">M7 post MBA associate. It doesn't matter where you went to school once you're there, so the question is really which banks/groups post above or below 80 hours per week for an associate. Would view this as a good baseline as it assumes 14 hours per weekday and 10 hours over the weekend.
I can tell you that it is very group dependent at each bank. I've seen associates in certain groups (such as TMT, healthcare and M&A) work above this 80 hour threshold more often than some other groups (lev fin, FIG, consumer, etc.) but this can vary tremendously at each bank depending on deal flow. In general, the groups with the most deal flow will be the most busy. If you are an associate working on 4-5 deals, it is possible to consistently book more hours than the analysts due to being responsible for too many workstreams. Outside these circumstances, would say that associates may work 1-2 fewer hours than analysts each night, but it really depends how active the group is (more deal work results in more hours for associates).
Post MBA IBD associates works almost as much as analysts - at least that was the case with my bank. The difference is there's a bit less grunt work once an associate gets up to speed (e.g. he/she can assign spreading comps or taking the first crack at analysis/model while they do things like skim through research reports for the appropriate comp set names to use, info to use in a deck, they take a first crack at storyboarding a deck if someone more senior doesn't do it, and be the 'checker' on your first set of analyses and deck to make sure the 'story' is coherent throughout, etc.).
You're still working a lot of hours because you need to sanity check everything, or manage up as you're the point person for the more senior bankers. Anything that goes wrong, you get shit on first before the analyst gets it.
Thanks for all the info. The reason I ask is because I've spoken to analysts that work for regional offices and they said hours are not THAT bad. They come in around 9:15 work all day, head to the gym around 4-5 for an hour, work til 7 and order dinner, work a couple hours after dinner and head home around 9pm. I got the impression that 60 hours Monday-Friday along with 10 hours total on the weekend, for a total of 70 hours was considered an "average" week.
Are these BB analysts in Chicago/SF/Houston/LA?
Nope, Charlotte.
Guys, quit lying to him, everybody knows they send the Columbia kids home at 7PM and make the Tuck and Darden kids stay until 11PM.
I feel like there's a joke I'm missing... Care to explain?
Is this a joke within a joke?
Friend in WF Charlotte got crushed as a summer associate. Probably cause he didn't go to MBA business schools ">M7.
Not sure about regional offices, but at my bank associates worked pretty rough hours to start out (on par with analysts at 90ish a week), but things leveled down for them. Most of them worked from 9 to 9ish, with a couple hours on either saturday or sunday for ~70 total. Of course there were bad times around live deals where they pulled all nighters with us or worked through weekends, but in general it was better than what the analysts had. What's weird is that the VPs tended to work longer hours than the associates at my bank, with one typically there until 10 or 11 every night. That's probably just an anomaly though.
BB NYC?
Yes. BB NYC Coverage Group. My group was making a modest effort to improve working conditions at the time, which may have helped things compared to some other places.
To answer your 2nd question - as long as you go to a good bschool + have prepared + are smart enough / have decent stats, you should be able to get into IBD
However, not saying you will be able to get into a top BB with a commercial banking background
While in my experience IBD associates have varied backgrounds, positions at top BBs are actually not easy to come by. In part, this is b/c the associate class is pretty small (ball park 4 analysts for every 1 associate), and some of those associate spots will be filled by direct analyst promotes
Thus, can be done, but commercial banking is not a feeder to top BBs. Still think you will be able to get into banking if market remains decent + the points mentioned above, though
Sarcastic response: They should have went to a MBA business schools ">M7 if they were just as smart...
Since you're just now applying and won't even start til 2017, you should consider how things may change by then.
It seems as if banks are getting more competitive for top candidates and these days pay only goes so far.
Hours Analyst vs Associate (Originally Posted: 02/25/2015)
How do you feel the hours improve from analyst to associates at MM and BB firms? Everyone knows shit flows down hill, but does life get better with a first or second year analyst working under you, or are you still subject the as much facetime? Since you've climed the latter a little and learned the tricks of Excel and PowerPoint, and how to quickly fix that model that's out of balance by $1,000, can associates peal off earlier once their narsasistic staffer leaves for dinner with his busted girlfriend? I know every firm is different, but pleae feel free to share your experiences / thoughts.
Anecdotal, but from my experience at a top MM bank, associates typically worked 9am-10pm weekdays and usually a few hours on weekends. Obviously this increases during live deals, but overall associates worked significantly fewer hours than analysts. It should also be noted that associates are one position higher up on the food chain, and with that comes more stress (i.e. responsibility over analysts and ensuring accuracy in all of their work).
How would you say this compares relatively to analysts at that firm?
In my experience, the associates come in a little later. The ambitious ones stay (almost) as late as the analysts though. Would say 5~ hours less per week (BB M&A in continental Europe).
Analyst hours at my previous bank were typically 9am-12am with 4-16+ hours on weekends. I would say associate hours ranged from 60-75/week and analysts from 70-85/week.
Associate/VP hours? (Originally Posted: 02/20/2008)
Most of the talk of the IBD working hours being in the triple digits are for analysts. How much are the hours for associate/VPs at non-NYC BBs (chi, la, sf, houston)?
bump
I just finished reading Monkey Business, and, based on that, Associate hours don't seem to be any better.
Associates - When they're meeting immediate deadlines, associates will be right there with analysts pulling crazy hours...but most of the time, after delegating their work to the analysts, they're able to get out of there at 9, 10, 11 vs. 11, 12, 1 for analysts. Plus they work more from home on weekends since their work entails reviewing more things. You won't see as many associates in the office on the weekends.
VPs - HIGHLY dependent on the person. They are much more in control of their schedule, they can work more from home and they can delegate work to analysts and associates. I've seen VPs who don't work past 6pm and those who consistently work the same hours as associates (though the latter tend to be the miserable type who can't trust anything to anyone else and need to micro-manage). VPs also won't usually be in the office on weekends.
Associate hours vs. Analyst hours (Originally Posted: 11/08/2006)
How do they compare, assuming both the analyst and the associate are right in the middle performance bucket of their respective classes?
Also, how does the comparison change when both are first year's vs. both are third year's, etc?
I am curious about this too. Anyone have any insight from actual experience? (not out of a book etc)
Joining as an associate in a buy side firm. From what i have been told it is an 80hr/week routine. I wonder what they do for so long. Advice from experienced ppl appreciated.
There's little discrepancy, if any, between analyst and associate hours. In addition to being responsible for their own assignments, associates are typically responsible for checking an analyst's work as well (that is, if it's a more junior analyst--for, as we've established, 3rd year analysts are often ahead of 1st year associates in terms of work quality).
Your hours are, on average, better as a 3rd year than as a 1st year--mainly because you're more efficient, and you don't as often get stuck with BS work. On the other hand, if a deal comes down the pipe and the MD wants somebody with more experience working on it, that usually gets thrown into the lap of a more senior analyst.
I was told that on a quiet day you get out 1 hour earlier as an associate per day.
Disclaimer: The post above has been made by someone who is not currently employed in IBD, and has not had an interview yet...
Associate hours/lifestyle (Originally Posted: 01/16/2007)
I posted this on vault message boards...but wanted to see what the monkeys here thought...there seems to be better talk on these boards. Thanks!
Thinking of getting into the IB world in NYC. I read all these online 'day in the life of' articles about associates with the 100 hr weeks - is this the real deal? I would like to hear first hand experiences from 1st/2nd/3rd yr associates on actual time spent in office/hours/etc. Can you leave by 8pm each night? Is it frowned upon? Can you take some work for home? Does anyone not live in the city (i.e. Westchester). Etc...currently work for a top 10 Fortune 500 and put in plenty of hours (70-90/wk)...and am trying to gauge the actual differences. Thanks
I was an analyst, but clearly worked with associates. Leaving at 8pm is definitely aggressive for associates. We had plenty of associates working until 11pm - midnight on a regular basis and pulling 2-3 allnighters per month.
Those were mostly 1st year associates, but it definitely gets better...
it's the life we set ourselves up with. why else would we pursue this career?
I'm an analyst, but of course nearly all of my work is done in tandem with associates.
Yep, some weeks will be 100+ hours for associates, particularly as associates tend to travel more than analysts. You may leave by 8 PM on some nights, but "each" night? You'd miss deadlines.
In my group, associates work slightly less than analysts, though. You have a slightly larger chance of having a life.
work anywhere from 75-90hrs a week. But they also pass off more responsibility to analysts, so that could be a reason for the lower end.
I believe all of the previous responses refer to Corporate Finance Associates - traditional IBD. There are certainly jobs in banking with more reasonable hours - trading, research, capital markets, PWM, etc.
All - thanks for the feedback so far.
For the "other" non-traditional IBD (trading, research, cap mkts, PWM, etc), luke77 (or someone) can you expand on job responsibilities (content) and hours? Do these positions differ greatly from traditional IBD when it comes to the total compensation? Are they paid much less? Just curious...there has to be something lost for the life gained. Thanks!
PWM is very tough for brand-new associates because they have to build their books of business while being the junior guy. Even in a white-glove firm where business is often handed off to you, the first year or two will be a bit of a scramble as you work to reach that critical growth rate that means that you won't get fired (or nudged downwards until you eventually quit) for not doing enough business.
Do associate get more decent working hours? (Originally Posted: 05/29/2006)
After two years of hard working as an analyst, followed by an MBA, can I expect more decent working hours (getting week ends off, at least some of them)? And are the wroking hours more decent in the Bay area vs. NYC??
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