Rank these b-school for investment banking
Kellogg
chicago
stern
mit
tuck
duke
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this is a tough one because kellogg is a standout in marketing, i don't really know why you'd go to kellogg if you want to do i-banking. i'd rank it something like:
1) Chicago-outside of wharton this is pretty good for finance 2) Stern/MIT/Tuck-These are all quality business schools, stern is probably the best for finance, but I think MIT and Tuck are slightly more prestigious balancing it out 3) Kellogg is very prestigious but not as many i-banks come to northwestern because kids there are more interested in marketing, might have to do more of your own legwork 4) Duke-not a bad school, just not a major target of i-banks
Duke is a target for i-banks. The 2 charlotte schools AND many wall street firms actively recruit at duke. John Mack is a Duke grad.
Agree that Kellogg is big on marketing.
Agree - Stern is solid for part time MBA but Tuck is alot more prestigious than Stern. Darmouth Tuck MBA holds a lot more weight than Stern MBA.
Agree - Chicago is solid all around.
I disagree. The Tuck mba is no more prestigious than the stern mba. Both schools are about the same in selectivity and stern has a stronger wall street network. chicago is a notch above both though.
stern and tuck are on the same tier as mit and cbs.
How does Haas rank in finance? I am not seeing a lot about Haas in this forum...
i think about on par with places like ucla, yale, and darden
"stern and tuck are on the same tier as mit and cbs"
wishful thinking.
these schools clearly overlap with each other. Just look at their admission stats. It seemed like literally every other person I met at stern had turned down cbs.
agreed. after hws, there's a whole bunch of schools pretty much lumped in the same tier. MIT might be ahead of this group, but not cbs.
chicago/tuck/kellogg i'd say at the top followed by stern/mit and then duke
tuck, stern, chicago, mit, kellogg, duke.
You gotta look at Stern (and Columbia) because of where they are located. Stern has a stud finance professor, Aswath Damadoran, that does lots of analyst/associate training on the Street that could be a great asset in your job search...
Stern is indeed a great finance school. But let's be realistic. Recruiting is not about profs, it's about networks, and the CBS network is far stronger in finance. During recruiting, bank after bank cited Wharton, Chicago and CBS as their core schools. Harvard, MIT and Stanford have smaller i-bank networks but are still great b/c of their names and cachet. But Stern is a step down, end of story. I've met a ton of applicants who have applied to both and all of them say they'll go to CBS if they get in--those friends claiming that they turned down CBS to get into Stern are probably lying.
They're not lying. I turned CBS down. Many classmates did as well.
Every single bank recruits heavily at Stern. I'm not sure who you've been talking to.
Do any of you have degrees in Computational Finance, Mathematical Finance, Financial Economics, or the like? How useful are those?
Haas "chip on our shoulder b/c we got rejected from Wharton" School of Business places well for middle-market banks and PE shops on the west coast.
LB Banker, did you attend Columbia by any chance?
Keep in mind banks recruit at all of these schools, but Chicago due to it's "Finance" reputation and Stern due to it's proximity and ties in the NYC banks are a notch above. I would say Tier 1: Chicago and Stern Tier 2: MIT and Kellogg Teir 3: Duke and Tuck
it's about who you know
...going to the right school matters
how does CMU Tepper compare/what are really the stand out programs? is it recruited from heavily?
I disagree with everybody here that ranks Stern so highly. Yes, a lot of Stern grads go into banking, but that's more a function of how many students there are interested in banking than at other schools. When it comes to landing a spot at a bulge bracket bank, a student at Fuqua (Duke) may have a slightly easier time than somebody at Stern because there is so much less competition for the same spots. I'd definitely rank Kellogg, MIT, and Tuck higher than Stern when it comes to breaking into banking.
Where a student at NYU may have more success is at the smaller MM shops that don't travel to campus in North Carolina to recruit. It's a lot easier for a student in a city like NYC or Chicago to lay the groundwork for those shops by reaching out and meeting people at those firms.
Sorry, but this is a ridiculous statement. Tuck and MIT are great schools with tremendous banking placement, but i would definitely go to stern over those two schools if i seriously wanted banking or anything in finance for that matter. Sure, many sternies want to do banking, but guess what, many banks want stern grads. Every single stern first year I know who wanted banking got banking. Can Tuck say the same? I doubt it.
If you do not have personal info, how can you doubt it?
Banks recruit YOU and not your school brand. As long as they come to campus, the numbers are sort of irrelevant. If they interview you, then it all depends on your quality. If you are good, they will hire you and if you are not, they just will not because you went to H/Y/P or H/S/W. You get the point...
Any thoughts on which is better in terms of BB placement and chances (taking into consideration the argument that less competition = greater chances): Duke, Yale or Dartmouth?
U.S.: HBS -> Wharton -> Columbia GSB -> Chicago GSB -> NYU Stern -> MIT Sloan
International: HBS -> Stanford -> MIT Sloan -> Wharton -> Yale SOM -> Cornell Johnson -> Columbia GSB -> Chicago GSB
What a completely ridiculous ranking.
Tuck is up there with HBS and Wharton as one of the top schools for management. It gets recruited VERY heavily, much moreso than Stern. It's even a cut above Sloan.
Also, you've forgotten to include Ross and Kellogg, both are way better than Stern.
There is no "definite" B-School ranking, but the hard-on for Stern on this site is baffling.
It probably has to do with the fact that Stern absolutely destroys Kellogg and Ross in banking placement in both nyc and london. If you want to get into finance, the only schools worth considering over stern are hsw, chicago, and possibly cbs (although many sternies turn down cbs).
Your US rankings are pretty much on point, but you're way off on the international rankings. I'm summering at a top 4 bank in london this year and in our associate class, the only american schools represented are chicago, hbs, stern, cbs, mit, and wharton. Every year, there's a london banking days event in which only 7 b-schools are invited: the ones listed above plus kellogg. Cornell? lol.
i go to fuqua and every bank is there recruiting during the fall, with the exception of lazard and blackstone. placement #'s are smaller than columbia, chicago, etc, but you can get into banking if you put in the time. at least 25 or so are heading in this summer and only like 90 even started through the process.
I think Stickatto University ranks higher than Columbia.
Why do Stern students think it's the best b-school in the world? Seriously. I would never take Stern over Tuck or Columbia in a million years. And I don't know many people who would either. Maybe Tuck for location, but seriously, Tuck is a very well respected b-school with good profs and strong placement in finance and consulting.
i'm not criticizing, but i am curious. why would anyone choose stern over columbia? that makes no sense to me. please explain, kimbo slice or others.
Harvard Wharton/Stanford (Tie) Columbia Chicago Yale
The rest (Cornell, Tuck, MIT, Kellogg, NYU) are too hard to rank and ultimately pointless. If I were to be actually accepted by those colleges I would visit them all and have to get a feel for the campus and the students.
Stern is a GREAT school. Campus, connections, classes are all top notch. And its in the middle of all the action, NYC! So the recruiting numbers for Goldman Sachs aint that great, but in all honestly if your probably not getting in there if you went to Kellogg or Ross either.
I would pick Stern over Ross any day of the week.
What's with the Yale adoration? Tuck, Kellogg, Sloan and Ross are leagues better. In fact, I don't see any reason to put Columbia or Chicago above the ones I mentioned.
The only two DISTINCT schools are Harvard and Stanford. Wharton is slightly below that, with Tuck, Columbia, Chicago and Kellogg right behind. After that, Sloan, Ross and the rest. Yale is not in the same league and lets not even talk about Johnson, which is in a different tier altogether.
Where are you getting that stern isn't doing all that well at Goldman? Stern sent like 15 people to Goldman all told, including 5 summers in banking in nyc.
Yale?!? Over Sloan or Tuck or Ross or even Haas?
Okay so maybe Yale was a wild card. You could easily switch Yale with Tuck or Kellogg.
I'm not sure where the Yale bashing comes from though? It's international alumni network is second only to Harvard. Yale is a name brand that everybody recognizes, even if it isn't the greatest school. BB banking aside, that degree from Yale is going to get you higher on the food chain than that degree from Ross. No doubt Yale isn't what it used to be, but it still has HUGE cred on the street despite what you've read in newsweek.
According to my sources the top employers at Sloan were consulting firms. Amazing college, just not the banker's mecca to be sure.
Columbia and Chicago will always be in the top 5. Not much you can say to change my opinion on that.
This is all a tad pointless though. All these schools are phenomenal. Whichever is best depends on the person. A degree from some snazzy school will only get you so far. No matter where you go, getting a job in I-banking is up to YOU, not your highfalutin MBA. The reason a high number of HBS/Stanford students are in banking isn't JUST because they came from prestigeous schools. It might also have something to do with their abilities, but that's just a hunch.
Are you sure there are so-so many H/S kids in IBanking? I think they have realized that there is much more money with a better lifestyle elsewhere (HF/PE...) Oh, yes and I am talking about the b-schools here. Do not confuse Yale and Yale SOM. Every employer knows that SOM is nothing compared to the M7 and the group after that (Tuck,Ross,Darden,Fuqua,Haas,Anderson). If anyone states that NYU or SOM is better than this group, even for banking, they are simply wrong!
Yes, I am sure a high number of H/S business grads go on to investment banking.
Hmm, employers like Lehman Brothers, JP Morgan, CS, Deutsche Bank, ML, MS, and UBS missed that memo. Nearly 50% of Yale SOM grads go on to finance careers, which is much higher than any of the schools you listed, save NYU (another reason to like NYU). Haas has always been recognized more for their marketing/management programs. Last time I checked, none of their top employers were investment banks. Ross' investment banking numbers were only so so last year unless you REALLY want to work for Citigroup. Tuck and Darden are comparable to Yale, going by the numbers. And Fuqua? You gotta be Fuquan kidding me. I wouldn't go there if you paid me, but thats a long and personal story
It seems like you're confusing the name "Yale" with Yale's b-school.
I love the BS statement "if anyone says X they are Y!"
meaningless
in my opinion, these rankings are spot on in terms of overall repuation. regarding stern, it's overall rep is lower than chi/cbs/mit, etc...but for finance recruiting it's on par with those schools and marginally stronger than other schools in its peer group (see link). but, getting into banking is not that hard from any of the top schools and you'll have plenty of opportunities at all of them...end of story. the difference in the tiers really shows if you're trying to break into pe or hedge funds.
Kimbo slice is right, NYU, if anything, is underrated in this forum. 43% of the graduates go onto investment banking with average signing bonuses of $32,000! Yowzah! Median weekly salaries for NYU investment banking interns was $1799!
Interestingly they rank MTV Network as one of their top employers too.
The verdict is in folks, I'm goin to stern.
just curious, what are your other choices?
The general top business school rankings are:
H/S Wharton Chicago/Kellogg/MIT Columbia Tuck
For banking, the rankings would essentially be the same but drop Kellogg down to the bottom due to its somewhat misguided reputation as non-finance/non-quant. Getting a banking job out of Kellogg shouldn't be a problem though. For pure banking #s Wharton/Chicago/Columbia are the main finance targets, in that order. Any of the schools listed should pretty much guarantee a banking job of some type (some people may have to 'settle' for Jeffries or BofA over MS but that is not such a big deal anyways). After those schools - i have no idea but I wouldn't risk it.
Chicago: Probably the best reputation of the five and heavily recruited at.
Kellogg
mit
stern
tuck
duke
Shadow has it except Tuck and Stern should be switched.
Hey, they are all great business schools. Ultimately, it comes down to you.
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