Andy note: This post was recommended by the author as a good one to repost to homepage - "Since it is recruiting season I think this post might be a good one to bump, VFA will be recruiting at all the top campuses around the U.S."
Every year a large amount of the best and brightest U.S. students head off to finance or consulting jobs. Seeing the success of programs like Teach For America led Andrew Yang to realize that the best and brightest were looking for more options, specifically options where they could "give back." He decided to create Venture for America a program that recruits those students and places them in roles in fast-growing young companies. The students work for the company for two years and learn entrepreneurship and how to build a company in a hands-on experience. Yang's goal is that VFA Fellows and the companies they help will create 100,000 new jobs by 2025.
“Our best and brightest are being absorbed by what I call ‘the meta economy.’ They’re heading into professional services and transactions and optimizing but not into direct value creation. If you can imagine a country where the equivalent wave of talent currently heading to professional services was heading to fast-growing companies, think about what that would do for job creation.”
Would/Will you consider applying to VFA? Will VFA be successful?
I think this seems like a great program for those who want to "give back" but still get something out of the experience. It seems like an excellent way to obtain an entrepreneurial understanding and by glancing at the current VFA Fellows it seems like they are definitely among the best and brightest.
Another interesting part of the article was this debunking of a common "myth."
You might have heard that small businesses create the majority of jobs. Recent research by John Haltiwanger, Ron Jarmin and Javier Miranda for the U.S. Census Bureau disproved that. It’s young businesses that create jobs. “Once we control for firm age there is no systematic relationship between firm size and growth,” the authors conclude.
Nice find will definitely have to send in an app senior year. Looking much more into entrepreneurship over banking as the idea/mindset of banking just doesn't appeal. Still trying to find my niche.
Career suicide...
I think what many of you are missing is that they don't need to offer an equity stake..........
Just curious as to why you say that Relinquis
As a recent grad looking to build a career you'll want to acquire a few things::
Business / Professional affiliations... i.e. the branding that comes from working for a certain type of firm, F500, top consulting firm, top investment bank, Big 4 accounting, etc... This stays with you for quite a while.
Transferrable & marketable skills... Key is for potential new employers to have confidence in the fact that you have these, otherwise they're not marketable, even if you have developed them.
A network of people to do business with and who can connect you with various opportunities
Working for a no name, small / new company for a small wage will not get you any of these... Also, the corporate world doesn't really care about past achievements. They care about affiliations, skillsets and networks, because that is what they are buying when their hire a young professional (or any other kind of white collar labour). As a venture worker, you will be less marketable to future employers then your PwC / BAML self on these counts, and at such an early part of your career marketability to future employers is important as you wouldn't generally have the ability to make money on your own.
Also, as IP mentions, it seems like these recent grads are getting a raw deal... $35k for selling your youth to a new'ish company... No stock, bonus, affiliations or network of alumni?
$32-38k/year to work long hours for a startup with no other upside?
For $30k/year, I want some equity.
When someone on this site (you know...a forum mainly for people in finance or looking to get into finance) says "banking just doesn't appeal to me", "I want to do something that actually matters", or my personal favorite, "I'm glad I gave up banking before I even started" usually translates into "I couldn't land a finance job".
This comment is definitely not surprising after skimming through your first post. Just more excuses on top of excuses.
//www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/sack-up-or-get-out
If I become successful and have a decent net worth then I also want to get away from the financial services industry. A lot of my peers share the same sentiment.
Finance is just a means to get financial security. Sure you need some passion but at the end of the day most of what we do adds little value to society... the multiplier from the financial industry is lower than almost all other industries. In 2012 we're mostly just transferring assets between savers and debtors and taking a cut.
Also, who cares about the 30k salary. If I was fresh out of college I rather take an internship at a BB bank or HF and get paid peanuts rather than accept that 60k accounting job. The experience is worth more for the future imo.
Not saying that I failed at banking nor that I dislike finance, just thinking more along the lines of wanting to possibly do VC in the future and this could possibly be a good route to getting there. I know that banking is a possible route to get there as well but does not appeal as much. I will most likely apply myself for SA positions next year, but banking is not the do all end all to my life. Im only a rising Junior and WSO provides much more knowledge beyond a single banking forum.
Banking just doesn't appeal to me, I want to do something that actually matters.
To be honest, I am glad I gave up banking before I even started.
I've always hated you.
Stop being stupid. Scroll up and read Flake's first comment in this post.
It will be interesting to see how many of these positions lead to long-term offers. Business schools will probably love people that do this. Still hard to imagine that many will turn down six figure salaries for this though.
This is a much better idea than Teach For Awhile, which is indeed career suicide. I'll be interested to see how many of these people stick around their respective company after the two-year commitment is up. I do agree with the previous poster who commented on an equity stake being needed to entice applicants further, although I think that might be an interesting aspect to unveil at the end of the two years: stay and we give you a share of the business.
How are you supposed to afford french cuffed shirts on $30k a year?
I'm trying to understand how convincing high achievers to forego a finance job to start a one-person company creates jobs.
Read the part about he 'meca economy.' I don't think the creating jobs part is as important as the 'creating value' part. Obviously, we as financiers didn't choose this route. I still think it's a cool concept though. Not everyone can structure bb M&A deals for a living you know.
Sweet deal for start-ups. Not so much for the recent graduates in the program.
I am highly skeptical...why would you do this if you had other options? You don't see any upside if the company takes off, and face downside if it fails.
You are not supposed to be ready to "give back" at 22. You just spent 4 years and ~200k trying to enter the work force. You don't have much to give...you are still useless to almost all employers.
The people who did TFA at my school were the ones not qualified to do much else, but did not want to admit they squandered their opportunities. TFA is playing the martyr. I have never seen somebody turn down a real job for TFA, which is probably why Goldman can offer a TFA deferrment without worrying.
I know people who have turned down Fullbright Fellowship, Google (deferred), JP Morgan, and Target for TFA...
The hate for these semi-philanthropic endeavors is incredible here. Life isn't about a straight arrow path to the top. It's about doing what's intrinsic to you and what you're passionate about, even if it doesn't make the most rationale sense in some logic machine or 5 year plan. Life isn't a simple model. It's serendipitous, and some people are just geared differently. That doesn't make them any better or worse than others; it just makes their paths different.
And I know people who have become QUITE successful after TFA...
I just personally haven't seen successful people choose TFA. A few have used it as a launching pad into grad school, and have then done well. The people I saw doing TFA were generally the students who got good grades, but didn't intern, traveled during summer, failed to network, etc.
I am fine with alternative paths. My own has been far from linear. But I do not see why somebody with a good job offer would join VFA. Some people choose startups for the upside potential...but I don't think people will do so out of altruism. There are more "feel-good" jobs that pay a similar amount.
VFA's pitch is basically a 2 year internship with a startup company. By the time your contract is up, the company will have hired more people (provided they are still in business), so your shot at a slice of equity is pretty slim.
The people I have personally witnessed choose TFA did so because they were too scared or too lazy to begin their actual careers. Their current exit opps include high school teacher, TFA recruiter and Starbucks barista.
Completely idiotic and asinine idea, and really an oxymoron if you think about. If the participants were truly "entrepreneurial" and "value creators", why the hell are they going through a middle man and getting paid a pittance to work for a shitty startup? A smart person would just go work for a startup, and as IP mentioned, get paid the full package (equity, options, etc) instead of giving up their upside to be "affiliated" with some bullshit organization.
Exactly. This is all a product of the current tech/VC craze. Someone who was a true entrepreneur, as you say, would either be able to join a startup and receive a full package, or create his/her own startup.
Im confused. I thought ive read numerous threads on WSO about ppl leaving banking for the "start-up" route because it provided a better story/ odds come MBA time... considering the general consensus of this thread, I guess Ive been misunderstanding those posts?
Edit: nvmd, I didnt read all the posts. It's because you'd be going through a "program" instead of actually creating the start-up i suppose?
This is a perfect opportunity for ambitious people out of high school, not college graduates with student loans to pay back. It's still better than nothing, and I don't see how starting your business would be career suicide.
"The people I saw doing TFA were generally the students who got good grades, but didn't intern, traveled during summer, failed to network, etc."
Maybe I should look into TFA. The only problem is that my entire time there would be like some shit straight outta "Kindergarten Cop", lmao
First off, I think VFA is fascinating, but I agree with the flaws pointed out in this thread about the program.
Now, as for the random TFA bashing...wow.
Okay, do you guys realize that Google, Goldman, JPM were losing so many students to TFA that they had to do a "deferral" program for their new-hires after TFA kept sniping them during recruiting?
No matter what your "personal" experiences are with students doing TFA, those policies speak louder than any insignificant sample size from anyone's personal experiences here, mine included.
Yah, I do know some lazy people doing TFA who did study abroad and have no internships.
But as said before, I know some amazingly kick-ass people who are doing TFA as well.
It's one thing to disagree, and possibly even poke fun at a program. It's another to completely classify an entire group based on hasty generalizations.
You guys are acting the same way ignorant Americans act when they say "PE and IB are evil!"
You're acting the same way. The same way.
You can respond to this post with sarcasm or dismissal, but at the end of the day, it's this mentality that is poisonous to our culture. And it is in this way that TFA breeds a great generation of outstanding characters.
And TFA is NOT an easy job...if you want, I can go in depth with stories my friends have experienced first hand.
Wow.
http://ventureforamerica.org/fellow-spotlight-andy-chatham-cornell-univ… http://ventureforamerica.org/fellow-spotlight-alison-schmitt-university…
Wow.
http://ventureforamerica.org/fellow-spotlight-andy-chatham-cornell-univ… http://ventureforamerica.org/fellow-spotlight-alison-schmitt-university…]
A bunch of insecure idiots. VFA simply manipulates the young graduates in the same way as elite colleges, BB, consulting, etc that the "credential" and the "network" is as important as the experience. The type of person who needs to fill out an application to get into a startup is by definition inherently unfit to be an entrepreneur...
^Not sure if you're implying i was one of the TFA bashers there. Agree that its been rampant in this thread, but dont see how me saying id b like The Arnold if I taught young kids turns into me bashing the program, lol. On the contrary, I have a lot of respect for the program (and just teaching in general) and am geniunely interested in it because of this "need work to gain experience, need experience to gain work" catch-22 bullshit situation I've found myself in
It seems like a great opportunity for young, smart individuals to shape and form a business; get great life experience and learn the concepts of growing a business from the bottom up. Hopefully it will grow into a popular program from people committed to making a sacrifice to gain real world knowledge and experience outside of Excel and Powerpoint.
That being said, I would suggest taking a look at who the companies are funded by. Many are financed by VC funds. Some have non-profit and grant money and are working for improving life in the community, but not all. It appears to me as a way to acquire cheap labor. The prestige they are trying to build around this program will lure kids, only for the owners of the business to benefit from the impact and ideas the younger generation has. These businesses will probably pivot and change business models, which is a great experience, but the undergraduates working there will realize little to no benefit.
Just some examples: Andera has raised over $9MM. Shape Up has raised $5MM. Swipely has raised $8.5MM.
I guess it's a good lesson to learn if you're just getting out of school, the people who put in the work are not always the wons who reep the financial benefit.
Lol not going to lie, the backgrounds of their 2012 class reads like an elite boutique's incoming analyst class
CEO/CIO or bust. If you are going to aim big, why stop at IB?
The program isn't as good as it looks. My brother got final rounds but the locations available were all in small "startup" towns - providence, cleveland, new orleans...if you're going into entrepreneurship/startups, GO WHERE THE MONEY IS (Silicon Valley/NYC/Boston). Similarly, if you're looking to do banking, GO BIG OR GO HOME.
I just don't think the compensation in enticing enough; why would you settle for something smaller and less stable and you can clearly entire BB and earn over 80K? It seems unrealistic to me to make so little after graduation. While you can certainly live with just 30k, but it wont sustain your loyalty for too long.
Firstly, on the TFA point: whether or not TFA attracts good candidates, it is not a particularly good program. It is taking students with no teaching experience, putting them in some of the most difficult schools in the country, and then after two years, when they might start to be competent, pulling them out. Yes, TFA students are smart and driven, but that is not necessarily enough; unlike banking, teaching actually takes talent and training. I have extensive experience with educational philanthropy, and TFAs reputation is pretty lacklustre; basically, it's viewed as a high-profile waste of resource and passion.
The issue with this VFA thing is the same as with TFA; if you want to work for a start-up, go work for a start-up. If you want to be a teacher, go be a teacher. You shouldn't need some fucking program, and you shouldn't view it as a two-year detour on your way to your real calling of investment banking.
I've worked for and run a number of startups, and they can be fun, and they can create jobs, but I would never characterise it as "volunteer" work or "giving back." What a load of bollocks.
I've never heard of this program; and I don't think I'm missing out.
Although this thread is old, I'll briefly address a bit of the TFA bashing in here lol. While I am a current member, I do see some of the negatives that result from the program. Just because someone does a philanthropic endeavor doesn't mean they weren't cut for BB/MBB/ whatever... it usually means they just want to do a philanthropic endeavor, please get off the high horses.
This isn't like banking where you're just grinding to the finish line. If you lack some serious passion, you WILL NOT make it. And quitting as a school teacher mid-year has a far worse real-life impact than quitting some corporate gig mid-year. You can be easily replaced at a BB without so much as a hiccup in the day to day operations. A teacher though? Not quite as smoothly. Out of the dozen or so people that have asked me about the program, I've recommended joining to 1... maybe 2 people. I'm not going to go on a full tirade, but tone the judgement down a bit. Everyone doesn't follow the same path.
If anybody has some actual questions or interest in TFA, feel free to shoot me a PM.
This program seems like a crutch. Entrepreneurship in its pure form is to be done with your own initiative, not a program. Its initiative that sets you apart. Thats my gripe with TFA. Why can't someone go out and get a teacher's certification and do it on their own, why go through a program? I'm sure plenty of schools in America would love to get a "target" teacher for their local "urban" elementary school.
That being said, I have nothing but respect for young entreprenuers. I was lucky enough to raise some angel money my senior year in college and create a start-up. I made mistakes, got lucky, and learned a shit ton. In the long-run (sounds so econ majorish), the people who want to succeed are going to. As long as you keep doing things that keep adding to your skillset and leverage your intelligence you'll be fine. And by skillset I don't just mean cranking out the best DCF, but actual critical thinking skills.
In today's market, its not about rote skills/thinking, its about original thinking. I don't know about banking, never tried my hand at it, but for public markets, its all about being original. Unless you are foolish enough to believe in the efficient market hypothesis.
-Long entrepreneurs/Short TFA
Pair trade of the century
VFA??? Whats that?
. (deleted: too controversial)
If all it took to suceed at entrepreneurship was to be bright, dilligent and motivated it would indeed be a fantastic career option for the countries "best and brightest". The issue is it requires a lot more than that!
Building a successful company depends massively on a large number of unquantifiable factors and the failure rates are huge.
Bottom line...if you are bright and hard working and land a finance job your pretty much set on a career path with solid earnings. On the other hand if you start a business, yes you could potentially make a fortune but the chances of failure are massive.
I have thought about starting a business a number of times...the idea appeals to me very much but my question is what happens if it fails? What do people actually do when their business idea fails? Do you get some middle of the road back officey job somewhere or do you keep coming up with new idea's??
The thoughs of being in my 40's with massive debt and still working 100 hours a week to build a start up business does not appeal to me.
I see this program being more beneficial for a business minded 18 year old deciding to defer college for a couple years or a bored freshman looking for an alternative to school. No entrepreneurial recent grad is going to want to work for someone else in the first place and especially not at that level of compensation.
TFA itself adds very little to your quals. if you were good enough for MBB in the first place, you are just delaying your entry by two years.
80% of the folks i know who went through TFA have had extremely negative experiences. you have a hostile administration, hostile colleagues, and 95% of the kids do not want to learn and have serious problems at home (drugs, broken families, incarcerated parent(s), physical and other abuse, undiagnosed psychological conditions) who carry it straight into the classroom.
why a kid coming out of the ivy league at the ripe old age of 21 would think that she can handle all of this is just plain insanity.
VFA, i don't know. TFA is a vanity project.
What does "our best and brightest" mean? Highest GPA? Best school? Most extracurricular activities? How is this related to being an entrepreneur? Let the nerds become bankers and lawyers; leave the creative jobs to people with ADHD. That is my humble opinion...
What does "our best and brightest" mean? Highest GPA? Best school? Most extracurricular activities? How is this related to being an entrepreneur? Let the nerds become bankers and lawyers; leave the creative jobs to people with ADHD. That is my humble opinion...
Maybe many young students go into investment banking or other related jobs, because they do not know how can they apply investments ot corporate finance knowledge in a young startup company.
Explicabo sed esse voluptas quasi quia voluptate officia. Eligendi enim sit facilis cumque voluptatem qui a. Rerum voluptatem quibusdam temporibus rerum. Et dicta et laborum facilis. Consequatur ipsa aut aut vel molestiae.
Consequatur cumque aperiam cumque. Quo ratione et sed repellendus aut magni voluptas. Quia doloremque reiciendis eos praesentium.
Ullam molestiae porro harum. Est et occaecati dolore labore at. Esse commodi odio molestiae modi in exercitationem ut ipsum. Qui doloribus id sapiente minima provident deserunt et. Suscipit nesciunt sit officiis iusto.
Modi qui delectus minima id dolores corrupti aut. Accusamus quis incidunt aspernatur a ea in asperiores velit. Corporis dolorem sit consequatur ea. Inventore porro dolores fugiat expedita quibusdam repellendus. Qui dignissimos atque aliquid et dolor. Quos qui nisi sapiente fuga enim.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...
Ut qui eos illum veritatis. Ab eos nihil deleniti. Aut repudiandae impedit voluptatem qui molestiae.
Consequuntur qui harum ratione eligendi. Aperiam quae est sunt voluptatem. Minus doloremque ex aut labore ut. Omnis et ut magni autem aut.
Magni suscipit officiis veniam ut. Et quis aliquid laborum ad dolor vel. Sint fuga voluptas aut doloremque. Necessitatibus commodi ut maxime nihil alias eos.