S&T and Global Macro

htmar's picture
Rank: Senior Monkey | 69

Hi,

I was curious about what do people in the Global Macro HF think about sell side macro desks as preparations to becoming a PM/Junior PM in a macro HF. The majority of people I know who made the jump worked at banks before 2009 where it used to be more prop. Since we don't have that anymore I was wondering if market making especially for derivatives is still a good preparation to make the jump to HF or if PMs are more and more willing to take analysts and train them.
I am sure that for fundamental funds they favor backgrounds like IBD or LevFin since you develop a fundamental skillset. For macro however since it's more about risk management and market timing rather a perfectly crafted investment thesis, rates/FX/EM trading/MM in the sell side is more relevant for becoming a PM than being an analyst or an economist... I know the question has already been asked but I thought it may have changed compared to a few years ago.

What do you guys think?

PS: I am talking about discretionary macro like Caxton/Moore... not systematic/quants

Comments (17)

Mar 2, 2019

Hey htmar, I'm here because nobody responded to this thread after a few days...maybe one of these resources will help you:

  • BNP FI S&T vs JEF EQ S&T decision making and making calls and I like that a lot. I enjoy macro econ, analyzing global politics, and ...
  • Global Macro HF straight from Masters with prior BB S&T Summer Internship. Feasible? doing a S&T summer internship at a top BB this summer in London where I will rotate on macro trading ... following macro trends, and I mostly did maths to future-proof myself. Ideally, I would like to find a macro ... trading (on a macro trading desk) for a few years to gain experience and try to move afterwards? I am kind ...
  • AMA: Non-target to Fixed Income S&T Analyst Landed Full-Time Fixed Income S&T role out of undergrad. I had previous internships at a global macro ...
  • How to Get Into Global Macro Hedge Fund 1) What is the path to getting into a global macro fund?- What BB S&T desks would be the best ... starting points?- Or would banking-> PE-> global macro be feasible at all? 2) Besides Moore Cap ... / Paulson & Co, what is a list of the best ones? 3) Can anyone explain what are their top global macro ...
  • UBS S&T or Small Tiger Cub? up at a global macro fund or prop desk? Not really considering the ease of getting a FT position at ...
  • Positioning oneself for Global Macro via BB- foolish? S&T, economics research, whatever) with the intention of moving to a Global Macro Hedge Fund a few ... saying that the best way to get into Global Macro funds is via S&T at a BB. How do these two ... viewpoints tie up? Is it simply that Global Macro funds are so small in number that it's so unlikely you ...
  • Global Macro HF vs BB Research posts here about Macro HF vs S&T but nothing on Research vs global macro. Thanks global macro bb ... Hey guys, I have the option to join startup macro hedge fund. I'm currently an associate in ... macro research (think commodities/fx) at BB. Pros and cons of making the move? I've seen a few ...
  • Prop-shop to BB S&T or HF? global macro focusing on FI?) so an HF position would be great, though that might be too ambitious. ...
  • More suggestions...

I hope those threads give you a bit more insight.

Mar 4, 2019

bump

Mar 4, 2019

Wondering as well. Older threads seemed to make it the idea that S&T was best for fundamental global macro funds and not IBD? Despite being fundamental, is there still a big focus on Math/CS? I was under the impression that S&T was just not a good place to get into these days and that IBD would leave more doors open in the macro space? I may very well be wrong just an UG here but there seems to be no good answer...

Array

Mar 4, 2019

bump

Array

Mar 9, 2019

last bump

May 30, 2019

Bump

Array

Most Helpful
Jun 3, 2019

im assuming you're talking about the macro trading teams within the big macro multi-mgrs.

there is no set path, but a lot of people you'll see at those funds have usually taken one of the following routes:
1/ showing promise from an early age. usually means a very solid understanding of markets, trading, quant research and even psychology... such people are rare, but usually get their shot right out of school
2/ few years spent at a central bank and/or sellside strats role. sometimes involves a phd as well
3/ few years on a sellside sales/trading role. post '09 they usually come from rates or fx vol desk, but you still see a bit of everyone
4/ quant research. this is becoming more common. you'll see people hired out of PhD programs, grad degrees or even the tech world. they'll be allowed to run some risk as long as they also contribute to research efforts
5/ smaller macro funds. some guys ran risk at a small macro fund (think sub-500mm AUM), but used that track record to get a seat at the big multi-mgrs
6/ mid-office. some PMs previously spent their time in either risk, trade execution or the back office. this path is a lot more common than one might think, and I believe it actually makes a lot more sense than hiring a mkt maker from the sellside

hope this helps. if you're interested in macro, closely following @Bondarb posts will be time well spent - it was instrumental in helping me follow path 1) above and working at tier-1 multi-mgrs.

    • 5
Jun 4, 2019

Thanks, this is really useful.
I am interested in EM desks particularly the EM credit, do you think it is possible to transition from that to macro credit/credit funds/macro or is it very specific and not recommended for someone just starting to be so niche?

Jun 4, 2019

you won't see that many pure EM guys at the big macro funds (they obv exist at every fund, but they're a minority), so if you're trying to maximize your odds of landing a seat on the macro buyside EM credit sounds too niche, but will open doors for other buyside opps (ex em credit funds). EM FX or EM rates is a lot more relevant for macro, but closes doors for other buyside opps. its all just a trade...

    • 1
Jun 4, 2019

Gorgeous human being - this is the first time all paths have been clearly laid out on this site.

Thank you for writing this up.

Jun 6, 2019

care to elaborate on option 4? The way I know it, PhDs would usually start in a systematic macro team or in a very quantitative fundamental Macro team to help with Quant analytics. I am not familiar with the option of immediately running risk. Which funds offer this type of opportunity?
Actually I have been working at Quant fund for 5 years after my PhD and would be very interested in the option of starting to run risk

Jun 6, 2019

won't name the funds but two well known macro funds stand out in letting new/ recent PhDs run some risk. they're not the typical quants, usually IMO/IPhO winners etc. and they don't run risk immediately, but usually within 3-9 months which is short enough. the rest of the quants do exactly what you described if they're part of the PM teams.

Jun 14, 2019
Macro Arbitrage:

im assuming you're talking about the macro trading teams within the big macro multi-mgrs.

there is no set path, but a lot of people you'll see at those funds have usually taken one of the following routes:
1/ showing promise from an early age. usually means a very solid understanding of markets, trading, quant research and even psychology... such people are rare, but usually get their shot right out of school
2/ few years spent at a central bank and/or sellside strats role. sometimes involves a phd as well
3/ few years on a sellside sales/trading role. post '09 they usually come from rates or fx vol desk, but you still see a bit of everyone
4/ quant research. this is becoming more common. you'll see people hired out of PhD programs, grad degrees or even the tech world. they'll be allowed to run some risk as long as they also contribute to research efforts
5/ smaller macro funds. some guys ran risk at a small macro fund (think sub-500mm AUM), but used that track record to get a seat at the big multi-mgrs
6/ mid-office. some PMs previously spent their time in either risk, trade execution or the back office. this path is a lot more common than one might think, and I believe it actually makes a lot more sense than hiring a mkt maker from the sellside

hope this helps. if you're interested in macro, closely following @Bondarb posts will be time well spent - it was instrumental in helping me follow path 1) above and working at tier-1 multi-mgrs.

Hey MA, are you based in London or NY?

Jun 19, 2019
Comment