Stern vs UT Business Honors vs Rice
Hey y'all, I'm a high school senior trying to pick a college. I want to go into investment banking or consulting. I will be majoring in CS + finance at all 3 schools.
NYU Stern: I got a 15k scholarship but I'll still graduate with about 90k debt that I gotta pay back. Is it stern worth this much?
UT BHP: Cheapest option, but not sure if it's prestigious enough
Rice: Money is reasonable. Most prestigious school, but not sure if Rice's prestige carries into finance recruiting.
What do y'all think I should pick. This is gonna sound very immature, but I just care about making money at this point I'm my life. I don't care too much about "college experience".
UT BHP. If you’re doing the CS+BHP, you will be the top of the top in McCombs and will have any job opportunity you want. I graduated from McCombs and was not in BHP and I got a top finance job right out of undergrad so I’m sure you will be fine.
How about recruiting for Wall Street from UT?
UT’s been killing it in the last 4 years (will admit prior to that it was just Houston placements) bc they hired this ex MD at MS Blackstone and other places and he basically created this pipeline/program for students to network with his connections so placement has increased an insane amount in NYC
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Do you think 90k debt is reasonable if I can land a good job in NYC? Also, why do you think Rice over UT?
I personally think $90K is reasonable. Had you said $150K to $200K, I'm not sure I'd say the same.
UT is a great school but Rice is better (although realize BHP program will have some of the top students). You mentioned money is reasonable at Rice so I assumed it won't be that expensive but what is the cost comparison between that and UT?
Bad advice. Plenty of rice and BHP Ut kids place into NYC IB.
rice is a better brand than UT and will carry more weight over a career.
question is how dorky / intellectual are you? Rice good spot for that, UT has a bit of everything with fratty and nerdy people
I didn't say UT and Rice people don't place into NYC IB. It's definitely not impossible to make it by any means.
That said, NYU has an army on Wall Street. If OP was smart enough to get into Rice and UT BHP, I'm confident that he or she would be able to do well at NYU. And honestly, the quote, "I just care about making money at this point I'm my life. I don't care too much about "college experience"," meshes well with someone who would want to study at Stern (overly competitive).
UT would easily be the most fun and if cost is a major consideration, I could see that being the #1 choice here (if indifferent to location). But NYU is always among the top 2-3 schools with respect to total kids placed on Wall Street. UT will send kids to NYC but a good number will also go to Houston.
Honestly as a UT grad I know ALOT of people who got into NYC IB from McCombs not even from BHP. UT has alot of programs/student orgs that help you leverage the UT Alumni network who are all very helpful. It will be alot cheaper, and if you're not lazy you can definitely can get an NY IB offer.
Texas is the easy pick. Bigger target than Rice and you’re sitting at the top of UT. NYU will be a grind in itself because you will compete against other NYU kids. It’ll be much easier to answer why you over the average UT kid versus why you over the average NYU kid.
Also don’t know if you care about this, but UT will be a lot more fun. It’s a huge school, great athletics, nice party life. Rice, not so much. NYU is city life so you have a lot at your disposal but you’re also in a city and not in a traditional college campus which might be something you want to experience.
If youre indifferent to all the above points, just look at money. UT is cheapest.
Went to stern so somewhat biased but from pure numbers Stern has one of the highest representations on Wall Street across the board from IB, to HF and PE. That said, no easy game. Of graduating class clearly not everyone will get their dream job but your chances are much higher. Peak frameworks did a video about the target schools on Wall Street with quantifiable numbers.
As someone with much of my family in Texas, I love UT. I applied there and was a hair away from going. Although i was out of state i was fortunate to get a full ride through Mccombs honors. Stern is notoriously stingy with merit aid. The cost of stern was tough. But I have few regrets. The people you meet are much different from a state school and living in the city builds you into a stronger individual. 90k at the end of the day isn’t unbearable debt and you’ll be cleared of it within 5 years with proper discipline.
Rice ranks well in academics but frankly is a non target for finance. Wouldn’t recommend.
My main worry about Stern is that it's too competitive and that if I somehow can't get an IB job there's nowhere else to go. Is the competition within Stern really that strong? I know this is hard for you to answer because you don't know me, but assume I'll try my hardest to get a top job.
UT. easy.
If you were 100% banking would recommend NYU Stern but given you want to also do Comp Sci would recommend UT Austin. Dynamic tech scene in Austin.
Hi, I'm new to this site. I'm not sure how to PM an anonymous account, could you PM me instead? Thanks!
Can you PM me? I'm entering UT McCombs this fall
NYU debt would be substantial if you have to live in NYC 4 years. Obviously has the best IB pipeline and tons of alumni on the street. Would think your network in finance would easily be the best from NYU.
UT is a great school but has hoards of alumni on these forums so keep that in mind. They can send you anywhere but it also has that big state school feel which has advantages and disadvantages. They also don’t “100% place into IB” like this forum makes it out to be.
The rice computer science program is one of the best on the planet and the lack of finance alumni is by choice not because they can’t get jobs if they tried. If you ever pivot out of finance into CS or maybe quant, rice CS degree >>> NYU/UT
So would you agree that if I tried as hard to get a finance job from Rice as I did at UT BHP, I could be equally or more successful?
100%
Not going to comment on Stern because I’m not that knowledgeable about NYU, but please, please do not take Rice over BHP. Rice, though prestigious, does not have a huge focus on finance. UT (BHP especially) has a better presence in finance jobs both in Texas and in NY than Rice, and better structure around recruiting - various clubs you can join will make the process relatively straightforward because they will teach you everything you need to know and help you get interviews. I would pick BHP over Rice even if tuition costs were equivalent (and obviously UT is cheaper).
I’d also suspect that UT provides a more enjoyable undergrad experience on balance than Rice - I know you said you don’t care about that but still.
On the CS side, UT CS outranks Rice CS and is the more prestigious CS school.
I've heard that while UT has more focus on finance recruiting, there are also a lot of other kids to compete with. Some people say that if I grind for finance from Rice, I'll face much less competition and have a higher chance of making it. Do you agree?
I can't say for certain, but my sense would be no, and here is why.
Since Rice doesn't have much of a pipeline into finance, it's not as if most banks are setting aside spots for Rice students, i.e. that they are budgeting 1-2 seats for Rice kids per year. With this being the case, having less competition won't really help you - you just have to impress the firm and secure an offer.
Competition plays a bigger factor at schools with more established pipelines. For example, a bank might decide to take only 10 kids from Wharton a year, even if there are 100+ qualified kids recruiting that year, simply because they don't want to fill their entire class with Wharton kids.
At UT, there is a lot of competition in theory, as there are a billion students studying finance in McCombs. In practice, however, most of these students will not truly be your competition, because at UT there is a lot of prefiltering that goes on (firms will only look at people with certain majors or from certain clubs). As a BHP student, this prefiltering works a lot in your favor.
There are really only a handful of reoccuring spots at elite banks in NY from UT (2-4 spots at Evercore, couple of spots at Moelis, few at Rothschild, plus the 5-10 or so kids that land a NY of SF BB - this could have increased in the past couple of years, not sure). But there are also only a handful of people who are really competitive for those spots. Personally, I find these odds a lot better than applying from Rice, where you are functionally a non-target and will have no spots allocated to your school. Maybe someone from Rice will disagree, but the lack of finance placements to point to would make me nervous personally.
If we are talking Houston banks, there are enough spots and BHP will give you enough of an edge where I wouldn't worry about how much competition you are facing.
Going to echo the other commenters here and say BHP is your best bet. Since you said you were on the fence between banking and consulting, BHP becomes the obvious choice. The Peak Frameworks video reveals that NYU isn’t even in the top 30 for MBB, whereas UT is a semi-target for both banking and consulting. You’re only 17/18; don’t lock yourself into banking now when consulting is a great option that NYU doesn’t have as many resources allocated towards.
Would add to this by saying UT is arguably a full target for consulting and not just a semi target. MBB recruits pretty heavily OCI from UT, and each of them now has three Texas offices (Houston, Dallas, Austin). There aren’t a lot of other Texas schools that these firms draw from. The result is that the per capita placement from UT (and from BHP especially) is disproportionately high.
If you’re aiming for non-Texas offices (NY especially) your odds from UT are garbage, so UT is a semi target in that sense. But there’s no material advantage to being in NY for consulting like there is for finance, so unless you want to live in NY for lifestyle reasons, this isn’t really an issue.
Yeah, that makes sense. But assuming I was locked in IB, then would the 90k debt be worth going over UT BHP and Rice?
You’re a high school senior - how do you “know” you want to do banking or consulting?
FWIW, BHP places lights out into New York banks. If I were you I wouldn’t be too keen on taking on $90k of debt for a program that is *maybe* better
Also think about which school you’ll be more comfortable at - you will not make good career decisions if you’re miserable and these three schools are all very different for student experience
You're right, I don't "know" that I want to do IB. However, knowing my motivations and personal skills, I think IB would be the best fit for me. Thanks for your help!
Rice shouldn’t even remotely be in the consideration against UT BHP or Stern. BHP has elite placement amongst banks and top consulting. Stern won’t offer you materially better recruiting and it’s more expensive, and UT is generally a more fun school.
Breaking into IB/consulting is more than feasible from all three (especially if you want to stay in Texas, then Rice/UT will be great). I think it's important to note that the three schools have considerably different cultures/atmospheres. Obviously money is important, but also think about which school seems to be a better "fit"
As somebody who is graduating from UT BHP in a month, my advice (albeit biased) is to come here and don’t look back. Every single BHP person I know who wanted a nyc IB job and kept their GPA at a good level was able to get one. Given that you’re already focused on IB as an incoming freshman, you shouldn’t have a problem at all.
The real advantage of UT is that not only will you get the job you want, but you’ll have fun along the way. The weather is great, the people are fun, and the atmosphere is collaborative not competitive. From what I’ve seen with my friends, it’s hard to get a real college experience at NYU because of its location, and Rice kids can be a little quirky/nerdy. If you feel like you fit in the culture of one of the other schools, go there, but if not, you can definitely find your people at UT.
I'm going into McCombs non-BHP, but I'm dead set on IB in NYC and I have enough AP credits to graduate in 5 semesters. Would it be worth trying to crack into BHP sophomore year/make a request to try and get in second semester freshman year for the network, or should I just graduate early and get out into the job market as fast as I can?
Current student at stern who was able to land both SWE at FAANG and ib sa at top BB. Would definitely go to stern based on your objectives and your drive.
So you think the 90k debt at Stern is worth it for recruiting over UT BHP? I really don't wanna get locked in IB at stern and then not get a job
bro i just told you stern helped me land a faang swe internship too. you will be fine no matter which path you take
I was making almost the same exact decision two years ago. I made a post about it on WSO too - I actually see it in the related threads lol. I probably made too many of these posts to be honest, but we don't talk about that haha.
I chose UT BHP with no debt over NYU Stern and I don't have any regrets. I am actually recruiting for Tech IB, and it's been great how much more UT representation has been coming to the west coast. UT has already had pretty decent representation in New York and certainly in Houston you can land a pretty great offer. One of the reasons I liked UT is that I was interested in technology as well, and I believe I have gotten great exposure to that here. Not only is a great CS program and community, but Austin as a whole is becoming a technology hub. I appreciate being here just for that reason alone.
On the topic of investment banking recruiting, I have been really surprised at the traction I have gotten in San Francisco IB. Of course none of IB recruiting is a walk in the park and firms that target UT are more sparse, but at Stern you are looking at maybe 5-6x the amount of students going for investment banking positions. One of the core reasons I did not want to attend Stern is because the environment is very tough and competitive, and I still believe that is a decent judgement of the school.
Being that you want to study business + CS, I think it does make the most sense to come to UT. We tend to complain about classes, but the reality is most people get 3.8+ (Edit: Changed 3.9+ to 3.8+ to not give unrealistic expectations) in BHP and CSB and that is good enough for anything really. I will say that the course load is not easy as CS + BHP, but it is okay to let up a little bit of GPA. I think it would be harder at NYU given the normal Stern course load is typically very difficult. I do appreciate the community UT has provided me, not only within finance/business, but also within technology.
A small note on Rice, lots of bankers like Rice students - they are hard workers, but that's because the course load is very tough. Another thing I learned from my conversations with bankers is that there is a tangible difference in how prepared UT students are for finance/banking compared with Rice students. UT has a lot of programs and community to build those skills while Rice has a very small community of those entering finance. Most Rice students start off in a Houston bank it seems, although they may lateral for full-time to SF or NY. Bankers in Houston know Rice students are hard workers but that the school doesn't prepare them too well for finance, but I assume NY / SF banks would consider that less.
Also on side note, SWE and CS is a very, very good option nowadays, but if you are locked into IB, you may want to consider not studying CS. CS is a very difficult course load anywhere and trying to do that on top of IB recruiting will be incredibly tough.
At the end of the day, having debt on top of the course load, internships, and trying to land a job would have been too much for me to handle. I don't think it would have been a good decision for me, and I don't think it is a good decision for many other people. I pretty much get into the recruiting process at major firm I might apply to across IB, PE, and HF, and if you choose to do SWE, you're going to have so many options. And I really enjoyed the fact that if I decided to do product management or consulting, I would be a very good position coming from UT.
Wow, thanks for the reply bro. This is really helpful. I forgot to mention that I'm actually part of the new ECB (Computer engineering + business honors) program at UT, not CSB. Would this make much of difference, or is it virtually the same?
I would say it will make a tangible difference in your experience. This is also something that should be heavily considered - your specific experience at a college, not just what the general consensus on the culture is, should be a very big decision factor. CSB tends to have 25-40 people per year, and usually they are able to stick with each other and help each other out with classes. ECE + BHP majors are much fewer, and typically they have to do those curriculums separately. Most ECE + BHP majors take an extra semester or year, although some finish in 4 years, albeit most decide they want to do either ECE or BHP later on so they didn't plan their courses around that.
The engineering buildings, CS buildings, and business buildings are completely separate. Sometimes just walking across the campus to get to and from classes can be isolating. But I will say that the ones who do have ECE + BHP never seemed to complain too much about it. They like the engineering curriculum. Engineering courses are tough and there are a lot of them, but no one expects perfection from engineering students generally, and I can't imagine it is more difficult than the Honors CS / Turing Scholars curriculum.
Overall, I would say it will be a different experience than CSB, but it will not be a bad one. I am actually an officer in an engineering organization so I go to the engineering building frequently and I love being in there (it's the coolest building at UT to be honest). ECE majors typically have a lot of the same opportunities for SWE jobs/ internships / organizations as CS students at UT, just less of a community behind them.
My bigger piece of advice is to figure out what you want to do as soon as possible: ECE + BHP leaves every option available to you, but you need to decide what to you want to really succeed in it. Don't do ECE for the sake of doing it if you want IB, and don't do IB if you want to actually work at tech companies. I know you don't have those answers now, but it will serve you well to figure that out.
Also congratulations on your acceptances and on ECB!! That's pretty incredible.
Take a good look at this table and make sure you really want to work 80 hour weeks when you could 40 hours and make more... There's even jobs at places like Citadel offering $400K starting salaries...obviously super rare, but the point is make you really want to be in IB over Tech
I was in a similar position a few years ago though non-BHP. Still went to UT and I couldn't be happier with my decision. Just did a vanilla business major degree. Still got into finance but asset management but that was always my end goal. BHP will set you up with any NYC IB role as long as you keep your GPA up and do some networking. Everyone I knew in BHP that wanted to get an IB gig got their wish. And I knew many non-BHP people I knew got their foot in as well. With you doing a CS degree too, you'll be a shoo in. Also this has been stated by others but if you really want to maximize your earnings, go the SWE route. Pays way more out the gate with a much better lifestyle.
Now as someone that's been working for a while, you gotta actually somewhat like doing this job. Of those friends that did IB, I would say a vast majority have left finance completely. And they found out what they actually like to do with their life even if it's less money. At the end of the day, 200-250k doesn't make you happy by itself. Find what you like/want to do first and the money will come. Just my two cents.
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Del
Strictly career speaking, would u still go to UT over Stern? Ik stern has terrible college experience compared to UT, but would u say the 90k debt is worth if I just wanna make bank on Wall Street?
If you are focused and diligent you can get IB in New York from UT. Stern's location helps a lot, but it's still on you to recruit successfully.
You from wayzata?
One of the things I’ll say about Stern that most people are missing is just presence in the city. If you know you want to work in finance in NYC there is no better place to go than Stern. Any superday or actual in person interview - just a subway ride away. Want to actually coffee chat with someone instead of a call - y’all can just meet. Have an internship - just live out of your apartment. It’s just the ease of engaging with financial firms and employees that you get when going to Stern that you won’t find anywhere else.
If you are dead set (and I mean seriously, dead set) on working in NY directly after graduation, Stern is the best of these options. That said, going to school in Texas will be a lot more fun, and you'll have a much more well rounded college experience. You'll give up some percentage points in probability of working in NYC after graduation, but you'll still have good shots in the recruiting process. You'll also have more latitude for staying in the regional area. There is also a chance that during college you decide you want to do something non-finance. If that's the case, the Texas schools will let you pivot a lot better, and won't leave you with FOMO.
As for UT vs Rice, it's going to come down to what you want to do. UT is a great school, and you'll get a classic "big school" experience, while having a close-knit "small-school" network amongst the honors program students. At Rice, the average student is about on par with the honors students, but you'll have a more liberal-arts feel. The school is tiny, and feels disconnected from the city, despite being right across the street from the med center. The residential college system is unique, and one of the biggest selling points of the schools - almost everyone has a positive view of it after experiencing it. Rice will give you an even more rounded education (and will have some stuff like more support for entrepreneurship), but I think choosing between those two is largely a personal preference.
Lmaooo UT by far. 2nd choice NYU. Here’s why:
1) Regardless of whether you’re BHP or not, McCombs places super well on the street as a top 5 business school. Take me for example, I’m non-BHP, non-finance, barely made a 3.5 GPA, didn’t join any of the Wall Street orgs (I recruited for IB really late in college), and now I’ve been at a large middle market for a year with an abundance of EB / BB lateral options. You’re gonna be fine
2) Austin is by far the best place to go to college (NYC is fun too, but save that for the next chapter of your life)
3) By far the best ROI if you’re looking at this solely from a financial perspective
4) Imo Rice isn’t fun, you won’t develop social skills there like you will at UT or NYU (especially UT), it’s way more expensive, AND I would argue that UT places so much better into IB than rice, especially if you’re looking to venture outside Houston
Hook ‘em
UT certainly has a better pipeline, but it also has about 20x the number of undergrads. I think if you're set on IB or finance, Rice is fine but you need to be proactively networking, applying, and talking to alums. The big things to note is that Rice has like 2k undergrads, and the vast majority of them are looking at going to grad/professional school or becoming engineers. If you filter down to just people looking at finance or consulting, you're probably looking at max 100 people, so call it 20-25 each class. In terms of raw numbers, you're going to be sending way more people from UT, but I think you have relatively limited competition for OCR at Rice. Rice certainly has nerdier / more socially awkward kids on average, but I'm not sure what the delta on developing social skills is between these. Rice also consistently ranks at or near the top in student happiness and satisfaction, so I'm not sure it's less "fun" although that is subjective.
I know it looks like I'm stanning for Rice, but I'm really not. UT is a great school, and you can't go wrong with this decision. I just think a lot of times, we see smaller non-target schools get beaten up here just by virtue of numbers. OP is smart enough and can do their own research on what sort of school style fits them best.
UT BHP easy. College is meant to be fun
rice is mad nerdy, no kizzy
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