THE LAST IVEY VS. QUEEN'S BATTLE

bankster's picture
Rank: Baboon | 114

Hello,

I understand that this topic has been discussed repeatedly, but I would like advise partaining to my specific situation.

After being on this forum for a couple years, I have read every single article about universities in Canada, which is why I applied to both schools in the first place. I have also been to QLEAD twice, and experienced the Queen's atmosphere and facilities. My visit to the UWO / Ivey open house did not measure up to how I felt at Queen's. The Ivey building was pretty mediocre, even though the new one will be finished my my HBA1 year.

I do not really like the idea of having classes all over campus in the first 2 years, or being in classes with average students. HOWEVER, the Ivey brand and alumni network are so deep that almost every profile I have read on RBC CM, Onex, TD have mainly Ivey alumni. Ivey has also set-up displays at DECA events and sent a very impressive offer package.

There are (from what I have seen) way less Queen's alumni in banking. I am also concerned with the elitest nature of the clubs at QC; I have heard that it is mainly private school kids hiring frosh from the same school. I go to a public school. However, as I am not even done high school, being dead set on a career in banking would be pretty stupid.

SO, my questions are these:

Is QC clique-ish, in that I would have a problem coming from a public school?
Is the gap between Ivey and QC worth more than my heart being set on Queen's?
How does one know if they are well suited for the case method style of teaching?
Do professionals in the industry remove opportunities from kids who go to a rival school? (ex. "This kid went to Queen's though, lets take the Ivey kid cus I went there").

Thanks for your time!

Comments (53)

Feb 14, 2012

edit

Proboscis

Apr 16, 2011
ekudekud:

Both of them, like all Canadian schools including McGrill, suck hard. Go where ever the hell you want, you're not breaking into IB.

kude bro, your disses are getting weaak homeboy. Stop sucking so hard and lay of the dope for a little while. ye aint got no flow no mo'. You seem to be confusing educational institutions with your favorite late night munchies, son. Worrrddd up player.

Apr 16, 2011
ekudekud:

Both of them, like all Canadian schools including McGrill, suck hard. Go where ever the hell you want, you're not breaking into IB.

I hate to break it to you bankster, but ekudekud has a point. The Ivy league, MIT, Stanford, Duke, Michigan, NYU, Chicago are the only real targets. Canada doesn't have any true targets. Go to the website of certain firms and check their campus recruiting schedule. You'll notice that the school I listed above are almost always on the schedule. So, I suggest you work your ass off and try to transfer to an Ivy (not Ivey lol) after your freshman or sophomore year. That's what I'm doing, trying to break into those schools again. even though I got rejected from five ivies already. If you're worried about cost, I can assure you that Ivies are cheaper than any Canadian school. (Average family pays $11,000 IN TOTAL per year for tuition, rez, food, books etc. to send one kid to Harvard [source: Harvard financial aid website]).
For now, just go to Ivey. OCR is the most important factor.
(I made a new thread "Waterloo S&T recruiting" to confirm OCR for S&T, which justifies my choice)

"The code of competence is the only system of morality that's on a gold standard." - Francisco d'Anconia

    • 4
Apr 16, 2011

The facts of the matter is that canadian banks recruit their bankers in Canada : Ivey, Queens, McGill are Canada's targets.

Apr 16, 2011

I'm sure an Ivy kid can easily work on Bay Street. A kid from my school went to Wharton and he's now a banker at TD. My Penn interviewer (Wharton and HBS graduate) runs his own hedge fund in Toronto. You get more options from real targets.

"The code of competence is the only system of morality that's on a gold standard." - Francisco d'Anconia

    • 2
Apr 16, 2011

I do not want to work in New York City, I WANT to work on Bay Street (or in Bermuda). I have no desire to work on Wall Street

Apr 16, 2011

Judging by the number of money shits thrown at you, ekudekud, and the fact that your birthday is April 3, 2011, and the fact that you sound very uneducated for someone who supposedly goes to one of the HYPW schools, I conclude that you are a fake.

"The code of competence is the only system of morality that's on a gold standard." - Francisco d'Anconia

Apr 16, 2011
tobywashere:

Judging by the number of money shits thrown at you, ekudekud, and the fact that your birthday is April 3, 2011, and the fact that you sound very uneducated for someone who supposedly goes to one of the HYPW schools, I conclude that you are a fake.

No shit sherlock...

Your shit per silver banana ratio sucks too and based on your posts, you have some sort of weird hard-on for ivies and an inferiority complex against queens, ivey and mcgill vs. your school.

Apr 16, 2011

Canadian schools aren't "targets" when compared to US schools, but they're pretty damn good. For example, at Richard Ivey (Western) the following firms recruit and have taken kids for IBD: CS (LA/SF/London UK), UBS (LA), GS (LA, NY, SF - including top groups like TMT and FIG and even GSIP), MS (NY), Evercore (NY), Barclays (NY), JPM (NY), Qatalyst (SF), BX (UK), Moelis (LA/NY), HLHZ(LA restructuring),

Plus every single Canadian firm and Toronto BB/elite boutique offices. If you're a top kid at a Canadian school, you'll have almost the same opportunities.

Apr 16, 2011

Also, bankster, I encourage you to pursue that dream of working in Bermuda, but it's just a bit unrealistic. The businessmen in Bermuda are usually people who, for some reason or another, cannot return to the United States (probably because they did something illegal). For example, the founder of Bodog is in Bermuda, where the US authorities can't get him. One of my Penn interviewer's friends operated a pump n dump operation (like the boiler room), and he cashed out and moved to bermuda before he got caught. Gordon Gekko will retire in Bermuda. Unless you want to be surrounded with criminals, stay in America.

"The code of competence is the only system of morality that's on a gold standard." - Francisco d'Anconia

Apr 16, 2011

Back to business, gentlemen...

Ivey is the MUCH more represented school in Toronto's financial community. From a recruiting and networking standpoint, I think that Ivey is just a step ahead of the others, as their alumni make up a huuuge proportion of banking/buy-side team members in Canada.

Queens has a great campus and is a lot of fun (I'd give it the edge over UWO, but I've always hated London; never went to school there, though). And you're right, it is a bit of a congregation spot for the private school kids, but your job while you're there is to do well in school, get drunk and party with your free time, and keep your eyes on the prize if you want to get into banking. You can do all of those things well at either of those places.

Both are great, Ivey is better, and if it was my choice, UWO wins. My opinion.

Apr 16, 2011

It's true that private kids congregate at Queen's. When I was talking to a bunch of kids from Saint Andrew's College (an expensive private school in Canada), they were always talking about Queen's Commerce.

"The code of competence is the only system of morality that's on a gold standard." - Francisco d'Anconia

Apr 16, 2011

I figured that I'm doing this forum a favour by encouraging people to apply to ivies. Too many kids don't realize the ramifications of not applying to ivies during high school, then regret not applying later. Check out the "How long before this kid is on WSO?" thread. Too many people on that thread are blaming their parents or guidance counselors for not informing them about the ivies back in high school. So I'm doing this forum a favour by spreading the message.
I also don't really have an inferiority complex against queens, ivey and mcgill at all...I read the three threads about Waterloo S&T and I'm pretty sure about myself. I want to be a trader, not a banker. I did the quiz on the GS website "which business unit do you belong?" and I got FICC as the #1 match.
For the OP, I'm encouraging him to go to Ivey, not UW, cause he wants to do sales.
By the way, I'm a high school senior with Western and UW offers (Queens offer is coming soon). I'm not some uni kid regretting the past.

"The code of competence is the only system of morality that's on a gold standard." - Francisco d'Anconia

Apr 16, 2011

Both are great schools. Just go where you see yourself fitting in best. I have never met someone at Ivey or Queen's that said they went to one or the other based on recruiting alone the simple reason being, QC and Ivey kids are very very very different culture wise.

I have family members that goto Queen's, yes there is lots of private school/forest hill kids that go there but that does not mean they huddle in gangs and keep others out.

There may overall be less alumni in banking from Queen's, but seriously how many alumni do you need? Queen's has access to all the major firms and they will all recruit there.

Again I end with, go where you see yourself best "fitted in",

I won't comment on the US Ivy vs Top Canadian school debates. I have met UW math genuisies and Bcomm rockstars from top schools who most regretted thier choices to not go down south, but at the end of the day most of those decisions were made on $$$ and person/family reasons. You do not get financial aid from US schools when your mom+dad make over 150k in Canada and live comfortably.

Apr 17, 2011

Queen's suck, look at what they do on their free time : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTIYn8NP87Y
I've also been told the brown jackets are commerce people.

Apr 18, 2011

There are ~5 kids every year who defect from QC to join the superior institution.

Apr 18, 2011

.

"The code of competence is the only system of morality that's on a gold standard." - Francisco d'Anconia

Apr 22, 2011

bump

Best Response
Apr 22, 2011

LOL, why did you bump this? There's already 10,000 threads about the same topic.

Placement and network-wise, Ivey >>>>>>>>>> Queen's.

Just read their respective career survey reports.

    • 2
Apr 15, 2013

Last year, the average starting Queen's student made 9K more than the average starting Ivey student.

Apr 22, 2011

If you're good, it won't matter which school you go to, period for breaking into ibank.

Ivey > Queens imo because of social environment, diversity, alumni/network support, prestige.

(New Ivey building is LEGENDARY btw)

"Know thyself"

    • 1
Apr 22, 2011

I actually went to Ivey for undergrad, and from a recruiting perspective it blows Queens out of the water. At best Queens till place 8-10 people in BBs, whereas Ivey is more around 35-40.

If you have a high rank after your first semester at Ivey (HBA1) the world is pretty much your oyster. They consistently place people into not just top firms but top groups (GSIP, MS M&A, etc) and a lot of boutiques also recruit on campus.

The UWO community is really great too. I know it's sometimes seen as snobbish but that's very much external. Once you're in its collegial. Also the parties are out of control, UWO can definitely compete with the bigger US schools, this year they came 4th in the playboy rankings.

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/playboy-re...
Ivey's a great balance of academics & social in Canada.

Best of luck in your decision.

Apr 5, 2016

What did you choose and are you glad you made that choice?

Apr 6, 2016

Here's a recent article on CDN Target Placements;

http://breakingbaystreet.com/2016/02/03/battle-of-...

Apr 6, 2016
IBNazi:

Which university in Canada would have more reputation going into the U.S. in Investment Banking?

I hear from my friend that although queens has a better program, ivey has more name value.
Decide yourself on which is more important to you.

I'm not concerned with the very poor
-Mitt Romney

Apr 6, 2016

As a Queen's commerce myself, I think our school has terrific prospects for anyone aspiring to be a banker on Bay St. The US? Very tough to break in. Most of our US placements for investment banking are through QUIC. For that reason alone, I would recommend that you go to Ivey.

Apr 6, 2016

Use the search function, there are numerous queens vs Ivey threads already.

But like illuminati said, most of the placements on wall street from queens are through QUIC. It's a hard club to get into, as its monopolized by rich private school kids.

Ivey will give you a better shot.

Apr 6, 2016

Just for U.S face value Ivey is better, although do note its tough to break into U.S finance.

P.S: Nice group we've got here!

1st post: IBNazi

2nd post: Mitt Romney

3rd post: illuminati

4th post: Jnews

Apr 6, 2016

What did you choose and are you glad you made that choice?

Apr 6, 2016

Fuck, what an idiot question. Morons like you should not be allowed to use keyboards.

Apr 6, 2016
achimp:

Fuck, what an idiot question. Morons like you should not be allowed to use keyboards.

Fuck, what an idiot response. Morons like you should not be allowed to use keyboards. Stick to lurking.

Apr 6, 2016

Queen's Commerce is also Honours.

Apr 6, 2016

You guys are all idiots

Apr 6, 2016

Dont try taking a shortcut...you're gonna have to work hard at both...plus a 3.5 is nothing special to get; actually it should be quiet easy.

Apr 6, 2016

In all honesty, choosing a school based on how it awards grades isn't the best place to start. Each school has their own merits and they are both considered two of the top 3 or 4 business schools in Canada.

If you want to go into investment banking, Ivey is likely the place to go. They have almost all the major US BB and Canadian banks hire directly and en mass from their program. That being said, Queens also gets lots of recruitment. You really cant go wrong with either program.

From a grading standpoint, both schools mark on some sort of curve. I know Ivey sets its average around 78-80% with a very small standard deviation. As such, its easy to get a 3.5 but very hard to finish with an average in the lower to mid 80's. I cant speak to queens curve (though I am fairly sure it is much less official and regulated then Ivey's)

Generally, if you finish in the top 10-25% of your class, you'll have a good shot at banking from either school. This isn't something that you should be basing your admission decision on. This is also something that has been discussed at great length on the boards previously.

Most of this could have been found by reading the boards and doing your own research

Apr 6, 2016

ivey, because if you get into ivey for third year that means for your first two years you had 80%+...

Apr 6, 2016
sammy101:

ivey, because if you get into ivey for third year that means for your first two years you had 80%+...

Getting an 80% avg at UWO Main Campus is rarely a problem for pre-accepted students.
Ivey is basically 4 months of intense work. Your first two years are pretty relaxed and only the first 4 months of Ivey count for summer recruiting. After recruiting it's coasting time.

Apr 6, 2016

Thanks for your responses. I will not be choosing my school based on which is harder or not, I just wanted to get some insight into which is generally tougher. I hear various answers from friends and wanted to get the insight of people who may have actually graduated or really have some insight. I will be choosing my school based on which will get me into ibanking regardless of how tough it is. Again thanks for the responses.

For all the other posters who posted negative comments. Go to hell! If you don t like the question move on.

Apr 6, 2016

Where did you end up and are you glad you made that choice?

Apr 6, 2016

So what's the percentage grade average you would need at Queen's/Ivey to have a decent chance at breaking into a summer ibanking or S&T internship?

Apr 6, 2016

check pm

Apr 6, 2016

Do a search, this topic has been covered in great detail in the past.

Both schools will give you a good shot at BBs in Canada. But Ivey seems to have more exposure OCR-wise to BB and top boutiques outside of Canada (US, UK, other). They've placed kids at firms like Audax PE, Evercore, Greenhill... That said, Queen's also has impressive alumni as well.

With Ivey though, you'll need to appreciate its case-study/class participation approach. If you don't, you won't score as high and won't be a contender in landing interviews relative to more outgoing peers. Queens has a more traditional academic experience. Also, since it's a 4-year program, as opposed to a concentrated 2-yr, perhaps you can use the Queens commerce name to network with alumni and get internship experience (not necessarily in banking, but in finance) in 1st/2nd year before 3rd yr when Canadian students typically land banking internships...

If you think you can do well in the case-study environment, I'd go with Ivey.

Apr 6, 2016

Hey fort2blue, I got accepted to both programs and am torn between the two. Let me know your decision and how you came up with it!

Apr 6, 2016

recruiting at ivey was quite good this year, but if you're in hs keep in mind that by the time you enter the program it will be much bigger than it is now

Apr 6, 2016

thanksss guys. appreciate all the opinion. i'm actually in UofT coop 3rd yr and thinking of transfering cuz our school doesn't really have any presence in ibanking (zero almost lol. none of the bb's recruite here). do anyone the specific placements or postings at either school? thankss

Apr 6, 2016
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Apr 6, 2016