Why the IBD > PE > MBA > PE route?
I am starting at a top tier BB, but I don't really have that burning passion for banking (or any job I can imagine for that matter) and my choice was strongly influenced by my other very motivated classmates. So now that I've broken in, it seems easy for my career to follow PE exit options and then a top b-school, but it all seems too formulaic I'm not sure why I would want to follow such a career path other than making a bunch of money in a relatively low risk fashion.
Perhaps someone could explain to my why going IBD > PE > MBA > PE is such a vaunted route. Perhaps it is truly the optimal way to gain great experience and set yourself up for guaranteed success? Or is it just a well known path than many have done and proven with low risk and high return?
I'm young and people keep saying take risks b/c you have your whole life ahead of you, but realistically the time between now and being married + all that responsibility is only a decade and a few years away.
Then don't do it. Think about all the time you are going to spend doing that: IB(22-24), PE(24-26), MBA(26-28), Post MBA PE(28- whenever). Bam, there's your 20's. Aside from your time in MBA, you'll be working like a dog. For all intensive purposes your whole social base will be from the type A finance crowd. I might even be worse at a MS/GS--> KKR/Blackstone, no fun state school kids running around proving why they didn't get top tier whatever.
If I were you, I would re-evaluate post IB. You'll have plenty of options, and a good base to go off of. If you want to take risk after IB, try joining a innovative startup that may or may not exist a month after joining.
Why always the random digs at state school grads??
In terms of why this particular path, I ask you "why not?" Just because it's fairly well traveled is no reason to blow it up. People do it this way for a reason - because this is realistically the one and only way to get hired by a top PE shop. Seems pretty stupid to throw away a good opportunity just because it is "typical"
No offense, I am one & am getting an MSE from one too.
random digs at state schools = someone has been burned by a state school grad and is sore about it.
You clearly don't work in banking / PE. I know state school kids at ALL of these firms. What these firms don't have is -- yeah, you guessed it, retards like you.
Elite mega-funds don't have many kids from state schools (except maybe UCB/UVA/UCLA/UM).... There are exceptions, but generally it's true. I've heard of people from top MS/GS groups not getting into certain funds because of their shitty non-target undergrad.
I've read somewhere that PE cares about prestige significantly more than IB.
You shouldn't call anyone a retard, seeing how it wasn't to tough to see I didn't say/or haven't said I worked at any of the firms I listed. Cool bud, thanks for the insight.
Patrick Bateman: He was into that whole Yale thing. Donald Kimball: Yale thing? Patrick Bateman: Yeah, Yale thing. Donald Kimball: What whole Yale thing? Patrick Bateman: Well, for one thing, I think he was probably a closet homosexual who did a lot of cocaine. That whole Yale thing.
"intents and purposes"
if you need time to think and want time to have fun and live, i say take the job, run with it a couple of years, then decide where you wanna go - after all, it is a great opportunity. if you like it, keep it up. if you don't, go into an f500 firm where the w/l balance is better. hell, you can even take a break for a year, travel (god knows you'll have the money for it) fall in love with some pacific islander, and never come back. but for now, i say take it. for your savings account and for the prestige on your resume.
No one has a "burning passion" for IB. Its just a means to an end, though its taboo to admit that except in the anonymous world of WSO.
Dont over think it right now. You have a great career start whereever you chose to go. The path you have highlighted is generally followed to maximise earnings. There are plenty of ways to leverage a career start in IB, its just that virtually all of them will earn you less $$$.
My goal is to become obscenely wealthy.
While PE is good, I've leaned more towards entrepreneurship and the potential massive payoff that it can yield. Growing up, I didn't even know there were such things as investment banking and private equity. All the people you hear about getting rich started their own company, not traveling this particular path. I feel PE is not the typical way that people become wealthy because it applies mostly to such an elite minority of high finance professionals. Not sure I want to make it big this way.
A lot of people don't know what they have a passion for, so since you're not crazy about anything in particular, choose one that will best position you for future success/money.
PE is a relatively safe way to get wealthy. Sure if you started the next Google you will be a lot richer and much more well known than the typical PE senior executive - but your chances of failure a lot of higher. Even if you don't fail, there are plenty of small businesses out there with people working 80+ hours a week, taking in low salary in order to reinvest in their businesses, and having it being just mediocre: i.e. you're still taking in revenues to break even or better (hence not failure) but growth is stagnant and frustration will mount.
Since you seem interested entrepreneurship, have you considered VC? It's not as typical a transition as PE from BB, but still doable. You have the opportunity to work with entrepreneurs and see tons of business ideas (hence developing the business intuition you can only learn on the job). You still make good money being part of VC (perhaps a bit lower at the junior levels but still good) and being in the middle of innovation everyday, who knows when you would want to venture out on your own...
I did the BB->VC transition and personally found it very rewarding.
Because I -- Want --To -- Fit -- In.
In all seriousness, some people, myself included, do actually enjoy what they do and went into it because they are inclined to this line of work. Banking teaches a skill-set & way of thinking, which is necessary to learn in order to be successful in deal-making/investing (i.e. Private Equity).
If you don't feel inclined towards this career path, but don't find it completely soul crushing... its still a good place to be. Its interesting and you make a boat load of cash in the long haul. I don't know why people keep saying "low risk" what would be "high-risk", launching a start-up with you friends and family's hard earned money? That sounds dumb to me unless someone has a dream they are devoting their life to and truly believe in, which most people -- 99% of entrepreneurs included -- do not have. Not to mention that if that were the case, we wouldn't be having this conversation because you would know what you're meant to do.
Low risk would be a career in BigLaw or going to med school and becoming a doctor. In those cases, you're guaranteed a solid income, you're not living your life 2 years at a time (analysts stint -- jobless -- PE/MBA -- jobless -- PE), and your industry isn't constantly generating profits by dancing on the meniscus of bubbles.
My understanding of the Target-Hard-On at PE funds is, your network means FAR more at a junior level in PE than it does in IB. Compare the network of ex-Harvard/Yale classmates to the network of ex-UC-Davis/SUNY-Albany classmates. Which group do you think is a fast tracking it at KKR / GS, the Treasury Department, Google Business Development and which do you think is working in the marketing department at Red Bull trying to get city ordinance exceptions for the annual Flugtag or reconciling outgoing wire transfers in the back office at Citi... and which group offers more value as a network from a PE perspective?
True but only applies to American... there are some of richest Chinese businessman's daughters(sons) going big ten, prince (princess) of some middle east country going shitty Cali state schools. Try convince me that those ppl dont have better networks than those Harvard students. Its not all about school or even grades, its about who you fucking know.
What in God's name are you talking about?
I'm talking about the value of the network someone acquires by going to a particular school. If the prince of Jordan's nephew goes to UC-Davis, his connections have nothing to do with what school he went to. And if he's hired by someone who only hires kids from Target schools, its despite what school he went to, because he is who he is. In addition to that, FAR more wealthy/powerful foreigners go to any given target as compared to any given state school. I have a fair degree of foreigner friends who come from wealthy/influential families, most of which went to top schools abroad. Even the dumbest of the bunch, party animals went to, at worst, what would be considered semi-targets. Primarily because these people are far more status conscious especially in of education.
I don't know why people are so sensitive about any point made about target vs. non-target. Its a target for a reason, because its better in a multitude of ways. That may hurt your feelings, but thats reality.
true in all deal-oriented industries. nobody (in their right mind) actually believes a target school-educated kid is much more capable than a top-mark state school kid (assuming the state school is not complete crap) - in the end, when closing a deal (actually more in the preliminary stages) one needs networks. hell, i'm leveraging contacts from high-school, where lots of rich kids went as well, coz their dads are valuable businessmen.
Have you considered trading? It seems like trading would be more suitable than ibanking for someone like you who isn't very risk averse.
Why all the dick-measuring? Everyone is harping on this "target. non-target boatload of immature bullshit" To OP you are asking strangers for advice on planning the next 10 years of your life. Hey buddy, be happy you can get a job in IBD, realize that fact. Then take the job, make a lot of money, enjoy the money and have fun. Stop sitting there trying to plan out 10 years of your life, you don't even know what the fuck is gonna happen in the next two weeks. Planning out working in IBD 2 years, mba, PE etc is a crock of shit to say that this IBD (2 years) and then say hey man, fuck IBD I'm going to convince some jerkoff capital investors to throw money into my startup kayaking business and then I'm going to grow my hair out, grow a crazy ass beard and kayak every fuckin day and love it. Point of this ramble: Stop planning the next 8-10 years of your life, it is bullshit. This is not how life works, unless you are just that lucky.
haha i liked this post a lot for some reason.
slumdogny is a college Junior. Just saying...
Idk how about you monkeys, but I plan at leat 5-6 years ahead. Because of "not planning" I'll have a "No-Name University with 50% acceptance rate" next to "B.A. in Economics"
slumdogny, best piece of advice i read on this board....you da man!
slumdogny, what a baller response
WTF are you idiots talking about? slumdogny, is probably 17 years old. No one makes a "boat load" of cash in their 2 year analysts stint. You have a 4-8 year (freshman year of college to your first few years in the work force) window where your actions/decisions will basically set the floor and ceiling to your socio-economic band you will live in for the rest of your life. If you're not planning ahead you're a fucking moron.
While you're in college that may seem like the pinnacle of success, happiness and fulfillment... but if this accomplishment to you would be so enormous that you will literally just roam the world with a shit eating grin for the rest of your life... than IMO you're no different than the kid who's working for his uncle's mortgage brokering business out of a home office in Kew Gardens.
The whole be happy with your offer thing is like be happy you're not a starving citizen in Africa. It's unrealistic and I highly doubt you could truly be grateful for having food on the table because you've grown up in America. Same thing with IBD, some kids have always been brought up in a successful environment and they see getting into IBD as nothing more what should have been done. Everyone is at a different level and blanket statements like "Hey buddy, be happy you can get a job in IBD, realize that fact" only provide a modicum of comfort.
See, the funny thing about this post is that I literally read the Topic clicked on it, then read the original post, skipped everyones opinion's and then wrote my opinion, signed off WSO and left my house. I did not think some people would take everything I said so seriously. I find it hilarious that some of you (Marcus_Halberstram, PussinBoots) genuinely were angry when you read my post. It is not that serious, the OP was asking advice about what he should do in the next 10 years, I don't think that getting advice on a decision like that from people on the internet is the best way to figure that one out. Oh and by the way, I live in NYC I am not 17 years old and I do have somewhat of a plan, who dosen't? But I am not going to ask people on a internet forum to tell me what I should do in the next 10 years.
Oh and also to Piper
As much as I absolutely hate that you said this, I would have to slightly agree with you. But to be honest this might be the world that you are living in, not everyone else. Also, the average american is not as fortunate as what you have stated. There has to be some great fullness and appreciation behind things you succeed in instead of downplaying goals that you have made because to other people that succeeded the same goal that they made might mean so much more to them. It is almost like when a fontunate kid is driven around in a mercedes and bmw's his whole life (his parents). Great, whatever, it's nothing. But when he is in his 20's and is on his own and pays for his own car (say a bmw, mercedes) to him it could go to ways: 1. He is going to treat that car like his baby, because now! all the sudden he is paying for the car with his own money???!!!! WHOA guys I pay for my car :), I am so mature and cool. orrrrr number 2. He does not find owning and driving a bmw or mercedes to be a luxury or does not appreciate the car because it is an everyday thing to him. It is almost like there really isn't anything that would be considered very special to him, unless he fuckin lands on the moon and gets laid, that would reach his expectations.
My point being, there are so many diffrent types of people in the world with very diffrent life styles etc. And to sit there and knock on state schools??? and "non-prestigious firms...???"" is absolutely immature and unrealistic. And to downplay someone's success or just treat the goal of getting and breaking into IBD is not special, hey man to a lot of people it is just enough to be special and some people are fucking proud of that. I sometimes question some people on this website, to the people who make fun of schools or firms...??? Do you actually live in america? or lets face it NY is probably the most normal state and city with the most successful people. Do you live in NY? Do you walk the streets in between lunch breaks talking to people and when you ask Bob on the street smokin a cigarette that works for the firm down the street from you:
You: Yeah, bob, not doin bad. Man I miss college...... Bob: Me too, good days. You: Hey, uh, bob, what school did you go to anyways. Bob: Oh I went to Suny-bingamton, I'm not sure if you know of it, it is a state school. You: Wait a sec, you went to a state school??? And you work in the same city as me and work for the competing firm that I work at?? this cannot be true... How did you do that??? Bob: what the fuck are you talking about????
Do some of you who make fun of schools or firms on WSO actually talk like that in real life?? Do you really say like "oh this firm is not prestigious, yea that school is not pretigious or good, or oh he went to a state-school he's an asshole" Do you actually talk like that in real life?? seriously.... do you??
Now to continue on what will happen after that small dialog.
See Bob is gonna look at you like your a fuckin' asshole, and then he gonna say to himself. This guy's a fuckin jerk off and he is gonna walk away and go on with his fucking workday. And then your going to go on the internet and type a new forum on WSO.
slumdogny what's your point? My statement of purpose to Duke's Fuqua is shorter than your post.
Switching to commodity or option trading desk in a BB....that should cheer you up
And there are kids from families with nothing and no networks who make it into target/ivy league schools. It is all about the majority.
Agree with Marcus 100%.
MoneyKingdom,
How's the new gig treating you? Guess it's not so new, but haven't seen you around much.
Not necessarily burned, but target people feel a sense of "imbalance" when they put in (what they they believe to be) more effort, money, whatever, to graduate from a target school only to end up at the same place as someone from a state school.
What they don't think about is that the IB analyst stint is far from an END. Many people benefit from their target network for next jobs, bschool, the rest of their career. Not to say that non-target students won't be successful, but it's way too immature to pass judgment on target vs. non-target when you're crunching numbers and copying photos into pitchbooks.
Yeah, you see what I'm saying? Everyone is at a different level and different things make them feel successful and accomplished. That BMW or Mercedes kid doesn't think jack about his car. I'm at the point where I do need to laid on the moon in a 24 hour manage a trois session, but I don't try to crash the happiness of others.
Also I doubt anyone openly ranks people in real life based on their firm or college, but they do it subconsciously on a ladder in their mind. (like ladder theory) It's something everyone does but pretends that it never exists, like parents doing anal.
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