6/27/12

Disclaimer: I like/respect men and I think I know a decent bit about them after years of living/working with them.

But after reading all the posts about how you guys on WSO work on your musculature, I feel like there's something I'm just not getting, and I'm asking you guys to do me a solid and explain it to me.

Obviously bodybuilding is an obsession with a certain segment of dudes, but most of you guys don't seem like bodybuilders. Do you regular, non-bodybuilder, non-athlete guys feel that muscle really matters? As in long-term, are you guys gonna be caring/tracking/working on your musculature in your 30s/40s? If so, why?

I know some guys do it because they think it helps them with chicks. Thing is, I haven't noticed chicks really caring that much. I understand not wanting your guy to be fat, but I thought the general consensus among girls was that dudes with too much muscle mass or definition were kinda vain/gay/icky. I personally will not touch a man who has a six pack... it grosses me out for some reason. (Ditto if I ever catch him touching/stroking/checking his own muscles. That's gonna be a guy who's more into his own body than mine. Would probably also watch himself in the mirror during sex.) This is all evidence that you guys don't actually do the muscle thing for the chicks.

And it makes sense that you wouldn't do it just for the chicks anyway. World's full of chicks; many of them are easy. Nobody likes to work hard for something easy.

No, it's obvious that you guys like being muscled for non-chick reasons... just like you like driving nice cars for non-chick reasons. Girls don't make the world go round.

It's gotta be something else, something innate to male tastes.

Maybe it's one more way to show status/excellence, like a GPA or a nice house/car?

Is it something that testosterone pushes you to do? Just a biological/chemical holdover from the days when you had to kick ass just to survive?

Does it help you get/keep a job? More muscle = faster metabolism = better worker somehow?

Is it self-competition? Competition with other dudes?

Or is it attractive because it's something you can control/improve every day regardless of how chaotic your life is?

Or am I just wrong and all chicks but me and my friends really do dig muscle?

Comments (147)

Best Response
6/27/12

Don't worry OP it's because you're a lesbian, explains why you in banking.

6/27/12

if i've learned one thing about women, it's that they have absolutely no idea what they want in a man. they say one thing (and probably believe it) but secretly want something else.

Money Never Sleeps? More like Money Never SUCKS amirite?!?!?!?

6/27/12

I enjoy lifting because it compensates for the fact that I'm hung like a light switch.

GBS

6/27/12

My problem with people who only lift weights, is that they aren't really training for anything (other than future lifting). Whats the point of doing bicep curls 3x a week? So you can enter the grocery bag carrying Olympics?

I think you answered most of your question with this one.

bankerella:

Or is it attractive because it's something you can control/improve every day regardless of how chaotic your life is?

My WSO Blog

"Unbelievably Believable" -- RG3

In reply to 21 Lives
6/27/12
21 Lives:

My problem with people who only lift weights, is that they aren't really training for anything (other than future lifting). Whats the point of doing bicep curls 3x a week? So you can enter the grocery bag carrying Olympics?

I think you answered most of your question with this one.

bankerella:

Or is it attractive because it's something you can control/improve every day regardless of how chaotic your life is?

doing biceps for 3 times a week is over training and will not help gaining bicep mass.

I lift because I like the feeling of working towards a goal. When I see the results, there is a sense of accomplishment.
Besides, working out in general produces Endorphins which make you happy.

6/27/12

based on your post, i see that you have no clue about the sports or even life as a whole

such a materialistic point of view on every single thing makes me sad

take a trip to brasil, enjoy sex with muscular men training jiujitsu or something.. experience some life
and try sports, its good for your well being.. do it for the sake of it, not for the status/prestige/chick/salary etc.

it is the way of life
muscular bankers that do it for the looks or to get into their bosses ass do not know anything about sports - sweat, tears, pain, joy, team, confidence, health etc

they are mostly little skinny betas that are reading muscle magazines thinking that they can look same as the cover model if they pay for the training guide, but dont realize that they got small or no balls and no real willpower and inferior genetics

6/27/12

Those who lift religiously and want to look like professional body builders do it because they are passionate about it.

Guys who lift moderately and are ripped/sculpted are hot and they do it to look hot and. Chicks like hot men, and I will take a 6 pack over a "soft" tummy any day.

Not all women have your preferences, Bankerella.

I may not be on the Jedi Council, but I sure am great with the Force.

See my WSO blog posts

In reply to Disincentivy
6/27/12
Disincentivy:

Those who lift religiously and want to look like professional body builders do it because they are passionate about it.

Guys who lift moderately and are ripped/sculpted are hot and they do it to look hot and. Chicks like hot men, and I will take a 6 pack over a "soft" tummy any day.

Not all women have your preferences, Bankerella.

this.

and i will guess that extremely small percentage of the men have Bankerella as a preference

6/27/12

"Ditto if I ever catch him touching/stroking/checking his own muscles. That's gonna be a guy who's more into his own body than mine. Would probably also watch himself in the mirror during sex."

Seriously, OP?

I'm not a Bruce Wayne or Tony Stark (although I love Batman and Iron Man - billionaire CEOs at day, superheroes at night. What more can you want?), but squatting +350lb and doing dumbbell bench presses with 120lb each (well, last summer numbers before having to take a 10 months break. Just recently started a journey to get back there, which will probably take until Christmas the earliest, ugh) I feel entitled to an opinion:

It's awesome. I just like to walk around knowing I graduated best in class, can lift some heavy ass weights and can knock or choke people out. Gives you an ego the size of Manhattan, not neccessarily in a cocky but a confident way.

Maybe something went wrong in my childhood, who knows. Maybe it's just my sports background, trying to always compete and be the best in whatever I do.

6/27/12

On a side note: Christian Bale in American Psycho and Brad Pitt in Fight Club are NOT MUSCULAR. These characters are just skinny ba*tards.

In reply to Fredbird
6/27/12
Fredbird:

"Ditto if I ever catch him touching/stroking/checking his own muscles. That's gonna be a guy who's more into his own body than mine. Would probably also watch himself in the mirror during sex."

Seriously, OP?

I'm not a Bruce Wayne or Tony Stark (although I love Batman and Iron Man - billionaire CEOs at day, superheroes at night. What more can you want?), but squatting +350lb and doing dumbbell bench presses with 120lb each (well, last summer numbers before having to take a 10 months break. Just recently started a journey to get back there, which will probably take until Christmas the earliest, ugh) I feel entitled to an opinion:

It's awesome. I just like to walk around knowing I graduated best in class, can lift some heavy ass weights and can knock or choke people out. Gives you an ego the size of Manhattan, not neccessarily in a cocky but a confident way.

Maybe something went wrong in my childhood, who knows. Maybe it's just my sports background, trying to always compete and be the best in whatever I do.

another noob not having any clue

yes, it is great to lift a lot, i enjoy it too
but, to quote a legend:

" You can bench press 500 pounds congratulations!!.......i can kick your ass"
- Bas Rutten

yeah, u might scare someone from time to time, or be able to move a sofa or something
but even a regular 120lbs martial artist kick the s*it out of you..

6/27/12

I look a little bit like Brad Pitt in Fight Club and a lot like Jack Black in Tropic Thunder

In reply to Fredbird
6/27/12
Fredbird:

"Ditto if I ever catch him touching/stroking/checking his own muscles. That's gonna be a guy who's more into his own body than mine. Would probably also watch himself in the mirror during sex."

Seriously, OP?

I'm not a Bruce Wayne or Tony Stark (although I love Batman and Iron Man - billionaire CEOs at day, superheroes at night. What more can you want?), but squatting +350lb and doing dumbbell bench presses with 120lb each (well, last summer numbers before having to take a 10 months break. Just recently started a journey to get back there, which will probably take until Christmas the earliest, ugh) I feel entitled to an opinion:

It's awesome. I just like to walk around knowing I graduated best in class, can lift some heavy ass weights and can knock or choke people out. Gives you an ego the size of Manhattan, not neccessarily in a cocky but a confident way.

Maybe something went wrong in my childhood, who knows. Maybe it's just my sports background, trying to always compete and be the best in whatever I do.

Bro you forgot to drop your deadlift stats too

6/27/12

It's fun and empowering. I like knowing that I'm a light dude who can pull a 4-handle from the floor. And I could care less if chicks don't get it. I know how special an accomplishment it is, and the thrill is most definitely real.

6/27/12

disclaimer: i am no meathead. i workout 4-5 days a week for about an hour (excluding cardio) to maintain and stay in shape.

1. the endorphines released when working out help me stay sane and put me in an all around better mood.
2. i have respect for myself and will not allow myself to turn into the stereotypical fat american
3. girls like it, because it helps in bed
4. its nice to be able to stick up for yourself/friend/girl in the event of an unpredicted hostile situation

In reply to animalz
6/27/12
animalz:
Fredbird:

"Ditto if I ever catch him touching/stroking/checking his own muscles. That's gonna be a guy who's more into his own body than mine. Would probably also watch himself in the mirror during sex."

Seriously, OP?

I'm not a Bruce Wayne or Tony Stark (although I love Batman and Iron Man - billionaire CEOs at day, superheroes at night. What more can you want?), but squatting +350lb and doing dumbbell bench presses with 120lb each (well, last summer numbers before having to take a 10 months break. Just recently started a journey to get back there, which will probably take until Christmas the earliest, ugh) I feel entitled to an opinion:

It's awesome. I just like to walk around knowing I graduated best in class, can lift some heavy ass weights and can knock or choke people out. Gives you an ego the size of Manhattan, not neccessarily in a cocky but a confident way.

Maybe something went wrong in my childhood, who knows. Maybe it's just my sports background, trying to always compete and be the best in whatever I do.

another noob not having any clue

yes, it is great to lift a lot, i enjoy it too
but, to quote a legend:

" You can bench press 500 pounds congratulations!!.......i can kick your ass"
- Bas Rutten

yeah, u might scare someone from time to time, or be able to move a sofa or something
but even a regular 120lbs martial artist kick the s*it out of you..

While I never made it above white belt status in BJJ, I do have some years experience in muay thai and boxing, but thanks for your assessment.

In reply to Value_added
6/27/12
Value_added:
Fredbird:

"Ditto if I ever catch him touching/stroking/checking his own muscles. That's gonna be a guy who's more into his own body than mine. Would probably also watch himself in the mirror during sex."

Seriously, OP?

I'm not a Bruce Wayne or Tony Stark (although I love Batman and Iron Man - billionaire CEOs at day, superheroes at night. What more can you want?), but squatting +350lb and doing dumbbell bench presses with 120lb each (well, last summer numbers before having to take a 10 months break. Just recently started a journey to get back there, which will probably take until Christmas the earliest, ugh) I feel entitled to an opinion:

It's awesome. I just like to walk around knowing I graduated best in class, can lift some heavy ass weights and can knock or choke people out. Gives you an ego the size of Manhattan, not neccessarily in a cocky but a confident way.

Maybe something went wrong in my childhood, who knows. Maybe it's just my sports background, trying to always compete and be the best in whatever I do.

Bro you forgot to drop your deadlift stats too

i got pregnant when i saw his stats...

he is that full of testosterone.. sucha beast

6/27/12

We do it to stay healthy.
It has nothing to do with women. At least not the first or second concern.
At any rate, you can get women with money. How many guys do you see walking around naked showing off their bodies ? Unless of course they were gay.
It all boils down to staying healthy and admiring oneself in the mirror.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but the world does not revolve around females.

In reply to Value_added
6/27/12
Value_added:

Bro you forgot to drop your deadlift stats too

Actually I never did heavy deadlifts, thanks to constant trouble in my sacro-iliac joint and subluxations in L4 and L5. Sorry for not obliging.

In reply to Fredbird
6/27/12
Fredbird:
Value_added:

Bro you forgot to drop your deadlift stats too

Actually I never did heavy deadlifts, thanks to constant trouble in my sacro-iliac joint and subluxations in L4 and L5. Sorry for not obliging.

What a pussy, no bitches gunna want you now!

"After you work on Wall Street it's a choice, would you rather work at McDonalds or on the sell-side? I would choose McDonalds over the sell-side." - David Tepper

6/27/12

Why? Because you've only got one body and I plan on being active as long as I'm alive.

What a dumb fucking question.

My name is Nicky, but you can call me Dre.

6/27/12

To some degree it's about staying healthy and obviously looking good. Also, many people in Finance are highly insecure and feel they have to prove something to people or distinguish themselves from their co-workers as more "hetero/manly". Why are you obsessed with doing your nails?

6/27/12

If OP is being serious, this news is somewhat relieving to myself and presumably many others as well. That being said, I'm no lightweight but by no means cut/muscular either.

To answer your question, some guys (mostly the douchebags) like to lift because they try to make a competition out of everything. Some guys (like myself) want to TRY, heavy emphasis on try, to stay healthy.

Here to learn and hopefully pass on some knowledge as well. SB if I helped.

6/27/12

I enjoy being healthy and maintaining at least a semblance of the body I had in college. And when I go to the beach I don't want to be the flabby guy, I want to feel confident. Men and women work out to be attractive, confident, and healthy...simple as that

6/27/12

OP is essentially saying she's fat and likes other fat guys.

6/27/12

It has more to do with being an alpha male and competing against other alpha males than getting women. Anybody who is dedicated to working out will automatically size up a fellow gym rat when they see one.

"One should recognize reality even when one doesn't like it, indeed, especially when one doesn't like it." - Charlie Munger

6/27/12

I'm no bodybuilder, but I would like to stay within a healthy weight range. I've been hella overweight before, and I have no intention of ever going back that way again.

6/27/12

Women love fit men. Even the OP. I think she's just not aware, or maybe its sour grapes.

I have been fit for most of my life, but had a year where I gained 20 kg (45 lbs) of deal fat and became overweight. I lost the weight the following year. A few things I learnt:

- Women love lean guys. Girls laughed more at my comments (even the non-funny ones) and flirted a lot more when I was fit. A lot more touchy in all social situations. They also were a lot more aggressive in showing their sexual attraction (this applies even to women i didn't know). You can get away with a lot more when a woman finds you physically attractive.

- Women who have already bonded with you or have a strong connection will not let your gaining weight completely turn them off, but when you lose the fat they will be a lot more appreciative.

- Food tastes good. Gluttony is a lot of fun. To this day I believe that a good 5 course meal is better than sex with most women. I'd say only the top quartile of women are worth not being fat for... if that.

- Your guy friends don't really care about your weight unless you make an issue of it / are insecure.

- There is an ego factor of being fit. It's a good feeling.

Here's a little test for the OP who says she doesn't like athletic guys. Why don't you name 5 famous guys you find attractive? I bet they're mostly fit guys, or at least thin / runner types.

In reply to Relinquis
6/27/12
Relinquis:

- Food tastes good. Gluttony is a lot of fun. To this day I believe that a good 5 course meal is better than sex with most women.

thats definitely your inner fatty speaking. they want the 20kg/45lbs back

6/27/12

Some people stay in shape to be healthy and look good. It's like saying why do women care so much about fashion? You have to have shoes for every outfit, I just don't get it. But women like to look good and sexy because it makes them feel more powerful and attractive (which is power of its own). It's the same thing with working out.
On that note, a word to the wise that women still don't seem to understand after so many years of being with men. If you want us to listen to you, it's very simple. Just lift up your shirt (assuming no bra) and then begin to speak. I promise you will have any man's complete attention.
- Cheers!

In reply to sayandarula
6/27/12
sayandarula:

if i've learned one thing about women, it's that they have absolutely no idea what they want in a man. they say one thing (and probably believe it) but secretly want something else.

I just want a nice, smart, successful guy who has a sense of humor. Is that too much for a girl to ask?

6/27/12

Girls actually don't care that much about a guy's body. But those muscle freaks think they do, so that drives them to be in the gym 24/7. Now I work out religiously, but that's because of health reasons, and I enjoy the adrenaline rush of lifting weights and doing cardio. I am under no illusion that having bigger biceps or ripped abs will help in terms of landing chicks.

In reply to Relinquis
6/27/12
Relinquis:

Women love fit men. Even the OP. I think she's just not aware, or maybe its sour grapes.

I have been fit for most of my life, but had a year where I gained 20 kg (45 lbs) of deal fat and became overweight. I lost the weight the following year. A few things I learnt:

- Women love lean guys. Girls laughed more at my comments (even the non-funny ones) and flirted a lot more when I was fit. A lot more touchy in all social situations. They also were a lot more aggressive in showing their sexual attraction (this applies even to women i didn't know). You can get away with a lot more when a woman finds you physically attractive.

- Women who have already bonded with you or have a strong connection will not let your gaining weight completely turn them off, but when you lose the fat they will be a lot more appreciative.

- Food tastes good. Gluttony is a lot of fun. To this day I believe that a good 5 course meal is better than sex with most women. I'd say only the top quartile of women are worth not being fat for... if that.

- Your guy friends don't really care about your weight unless you make an issue of it / are insecure.

- There is an ego factor of being fit. It's a good feeling.

Here's a little test for the OP who says she doesn't like athletic guys. Why don't you name 5 famous guys you find attractive? I bet they're mostly fit guys, or at least thin / runner types.

This is a solid response. I couldn't agree more. The benefits of working out and staying fit far outweigh the cons. Growing up, I was a good 35-40 pounds overweight, through most of high school. One day, I decided enough was enough and started a year long process to get into shape. Immediate benefits:

1. You feel happier. Its a scientific fact. Working out releasing endorphins, which produce a chemical state of happiness within you.

2. People respect you for it. One of the most satisfying things was the frequent compliments, from both guys and girls. People see that you care about your self-image and seriously view you in a different light for it.

3. As Relinquis stated, conversations with girls become smoother and more enjoyable. You're more confident, you feel comfortable taking risks, girls appreciate the confidence, which leads to good endings...

4. There's also selfish motivations. I'm a competitive person, and the same way I want to be the best at my job, I want to be the best at all other facets. I don't have stats to back it up, but I'm sure fit guys outperform fat guys at the workplace, for stamina/confidence/superficial reasons. If you make more money and look more attractive than another guy, you know he has nothing on you.

6/27/12

lol OP I remember your stupid thread on the "douchiest" shit you've said.. I think you should include this

6/27/12

I like lifting because I like being healthy. That's about it. Eating healthy food, being active, strong and cardiovascularly fit makes me feel good and improves the quality of my life in general and I feel bad when I don't exercise for a while or eat crappy foods. All the other stuff, like guys respecting you and chicks wanting you are just nice side benefits, really.

6/27/12

Most of the girl friends I had in college and that I asked for their opinion on this topic, said that they really didn't care for guys who were ripped/super jacked... in fact, most found that to be unattractive. I think being lean bodied or fit is probably the default most attractive stance. As a general observation, I've noticed that the most thick-necked ripped/jacked guys walking around on the street, in clubs, events, etc. also have the most plastic-y girls by their sides (i.e. fake tan, lips, hair, and boobs)... deserving so i suppose. As long as you feel comfortable in your own body, you have nothing to worry about, confidence and self-worth come from the inside, and body image helps with that, but there are much bigger insecurities guys (and girls for that matter) need to overcome to attract the opposite sex, get away with little things, have their own way etc.

In reply to Brady4MVP
6/27/12
Brady4MVP:

Girls actually don't care that much about a guy's body. But those muscle freaks think they do, so that drives them to be in the gym 24/7. Now I work out religiously, but that's because of health reasons, and I enjoy the adrenaline rush of lifting weights and doing cardio. I am under no illusion that having bigger biceps or ripped abs will help in terms of landing chicks.

I agree to some extent. Having a personality and knowing how to talk to a woman gives you a lot of leeway, but women do respond sexually to "lean" men. So athletic guys, or slim guys.

Also, in terms of giving advise, it's easier to teach guys to eat less, run more and lift a few weights than to give them a personality and character.

6/27/12

Exercise makes me happy and gets rid of any anxiety and stress I have. The side effect of which is a nice and strong body.

6/27/12

Interesting responses. I'm hearing some people talk as if there were a single spectrum from muscular to fat.

Is that really the case? I would argue that there is a spectrum from thin to fat, and a separate spectrum for muscle mass.

Of course nobody wants to be a fatass, and everyone loves endorphins... but there is a difference between aiming to stay trim/healthy and aiming to be muscular.

Or is there? Does increased muscle mass make you healthier?

6/27/12

Just to make this clear, having a muscular physique or being in good shape does NOT make you a "bodybuilder". Bodybuilders dedicate their lives to two things: 1) Attaining the lowest bodyfat % possible while also 2 )Attaining the largest muscle mass possible. Oh, and the two things work against each other.

I work out for 60-90 minutes, 4-6 days a week. Benefits:
1) Endorphin rush
2) My heart/lungs stay healthy
3) I remain flexible
4) The added musculature is useful in countless situations (Housework, self-defense, at the office, etc)
5) More muscle (usually) means a higher metabolism, which helps to keep extra weight off
6) Ladies like it, regardless of what the OP says.

I am not/will never be one of those guys with an 8-pack and veins the size of garden hoses. I don't want to be. Most of the guys on here that talk about lifting weights/working out are doing so to stay in GOOD shape, not Olympian-shape.

6/27/12

A cheetah needs strong muscles to catch the gazelle. A gorilla's spot in the pecking order depends on his strength, aggressiveness, and ability to utilize both to beat out the other contenders. The success of a man (at least in a civilized society with law and order) depends NOT on his physical strength, but the content of his mind and his ability to reason, allowing him to pursue his ends in a rational and self-possessed manner. A lot of women fail to make the distinction between men and animals.

In reply to bankerella
6/27/12
bankerella:

Interesting responses. I'm hearing some people talk as if there were a single spectrum from muscular to fat.

Is that really the case? I would argue that there is a spectrum from thin to fat, and a separate spectrum for muscle mass.

Of course nobody wants to be a fatass, and everyone loves endorphins... but there is a difference between aiming to stay trim/healthy and aiming to be muscular.

Or is there? Does increased muscle mass make you healthier?

Some research state that lifting weights is more beneficial than cardio for older people. Reduces the shoulder pain/back pain that old people experience.
Obviously, doing both moderate lifting and cardio is best for your health.

6/27/12

Working out definitely makes you feel good, thats enough reason right there.

If I were to analyze why I pump, its probably got the most to do with confidence. Not narcissistic confidence in the sense I want to look better than others, but confidence in the sense I am setting goals and working to achieve them, same idea people have in most aspects of life.. just a different outlet to feel better about yourself. Who the fk dosent wanna get their swell on.

In reply to Angus Macgyver
6/27/12
Angus Macgyver:

I'm no bodybuilder, but I would like to stay within a healthy weight range. I've been hella overweight before, and I have no intention of ever going back that way again.

west_coast_rainmaker is that you?

My name is Nicky, but you can call me Dre.

6/27/12

So...

Youre a female in banking, so let me dissect your physique:

Played soccer or some other bullsh*t boring sport in HS. Stayed in relatively good shape through college due to metabolism and alcohol. First year out of undergrad, you lost it. You're not 'fat', but you can tell that you have a slight gut under your pull over. You're pretty self conscious about wearing pencil skirts or form fitting outfits. Sure, you may do some yoga once or twice a month, but this is simply in vain, bc right afterwards you down a large vanilla latte at the 'bucks with 800 calories. The muscular/ripped guys don't normally approach you, but that doesn't matter, you don't like them anyway (not srs). You keep telling yourself that the skinny fat guy in the corner is more your speed, because you know he has no place critiquing your body...

Most guys gain muscle for both looks and health- I mean girls don't goto strip clubs to watch J Bieber's prancing about... But whatever the case may be, it leads to people being more healthy, so why knock it? Also, there is nothing more displeasing to me than seeing the typical skinny fat American... No muscle mass at all AND a gut? Worse thing ever.

"Sounds to me like you guys a couple of bookies."

In reply to bankerella
6/27/12
bankerella:

Of course nobody wants to be a fatass, and everyone loves endorphins... but there is a difference between aiming to stay trim/healthy and aiming to be muscular.

Or is there? Does increased muscle mass make you healthier?

Staying trim/healthy is easier when you have more muscle. The added muscle burns more calories passively, which means you can eat more without gaining weight.

And yes, I'd say that increased muscle mass makes you healthier, within reason and as long as it was obtained naturally. I'm pretty sure that the huge guys who are bench pressing upwards of 800lbs, or have 3% body fat aren't exactly healthy.

I'd say a bodyfat from 7-15%ish is pretty healthy, along with muscle mass suitable for the person's physical limits.

6/27/12
6/27/12
bankerella:

It's gotta be something else, something innate to male testes.

corrected for you

In reply to Amphipathic
6/27/12
Amphipathic:

A cheetah needs strong muscles to catch the gazelle. A gorilla's spot in the pecking order depends on his strength, aggressiveness, and ability to utilize both to beat out the other contenders. The success of a man (at least in a civilized society with law and order) depends NOT on his physical strength, but the content of his mind and his ability to reason, allowing him to pursue his ends in a rational and self-possessed manner. A lot of women fail to make the distinction between men and animals.

i think women can make that distinction logically. however, civilized society has only existed for 5 thousand years (maybe 8 thousand), while humans have been around for hundreds of thousands of years, if not longer. modern women are biologically wired in exactly the same way as their stone-age counterparts... which is why they are still attracted to cheetah or gorilla-like men. not their fault really.

Money Never Sleeps? More like Money Never SUCKS amirite?!?!?!?

6/27/12

bankarella, I'm with blastoise here: you're a lesbian.

Contrary to what you think, most women are not easy and, in any case, I'm targeting the top percentiles. So, yes, I feel like I need to stay fit to attract such women, just like I need to be funny, rich, interesting or cool.

6/27/12
bankerella:

Or am I just wrong and all chicks but me and my friends really do dig muscle?

I can answer this part. I'm a female banker, and yes - I do appreciate guys that are a bit more built and cut vs beer gut, no definition. My BF has lovely definition and I hope he keeps them up because I like touching them and showing him off. Personally - I like muscular guys so much I can't wait to see Magic Mike when it comes out in the movies this weekend!

This is similar to the make-up/ make-up free... big boobs/ vs small boobs discussion. Some guys are grossed out by girls with too much make-up and big boobs.. but they'd probably be in the minority that also don't like Victorias Secret models.

6/27/12
6/27/12

it helps you live longer? more energy? healthier? more confidence? dumb question

This to all my hatin' folks seeing me getting guac right now..

In reply to mxc
6/27/12
mxc:

most women are not easy

Negatiiiiiiive.

Equities are for chumps.

In reply to Downeasta
6/27/12
Downeasta:
bankerella:

Of course nobody wants to be a fatass, and everyone loves endorphins... but there is a difference between aiming to stay trim/healthy and aiming to be muscular.

Or is there? Does increased muscle mass make you healthier?

Staying trim/healthy is easier when you have more muscle. The added muscle burns more calories passively, which means you can eat more without gaining weight.

And yes, I'd say that increased muscle mass makes you healthier, within reason and as long as it was obtained naturally. I'm pretty sure that the huge guys who are bench pressing upwards of 800lbs, or have 3% body fat aren't exactly healthy.

I'd say a bodyfat from 7-15%ish is pretty healthy, along with muscle mass suitable for the person's physical limits.

This is helpful. So for at least some guys, the quest for more muscle is a rational substrategy that underlies the main goal, which is to not be fat. That makes more sense.

Also, agree with several people's points: probably 98% of chicks are going to say that trim = cardio + diet + willpower = attractive. I just haven't seen sufficient evidence that muscle mass and trimness should be conflated.

Though for male bodies, perhaps they should. A lot of the skinny guys with low muscle mass end up not-so-trim after the metabolic dropoff in the late 20's.

In reply to Cruncharoo
6/27/12
Cruncharoo:

it helps you live longer? more energy? healthier? more confidence? dumb question

yea the energy factor is big too, whenever I lost motivation and stop working out, I seem to get lazy as fuck in other aspects of my life

6/27/12

1) A sense of fulfillment being a well-rounded achiever, 2) healthy, and 3) physical attractiveness = though a small part of the equation, why give that up when you have the time to work on it? People in general are quite shallow, women included. You DO get further in the world if you're physically attractive. That's the reality.

In reply to Downeasta
6/27/12
Downeasta:
bankerella:

Of course nobody wants to be a fatass, and everyone loves endorphins... but there is a difference between aiming to stay trim/healthy and aiming to be muscular.

Or is there? Does increased muscle mass make you healthier?

Staying trim/healthy is easier when you have more muscle. The added muscle burns more calories passively, which means you can eat more without gaining weight.

And yes, I'd say that increased muscle mass makes you healthier, within reason and as long as it was obtained naturally. I'm pretty sure that the huge guys who are bench pressing upwards of 800lbs, or have 3% body fat aren't exactly healthy.

I'd say a bodyfat from 7-15%ish is pretty healthy, along with muscle mass suitable for the person's physical limits.

Oh, and by the way: SB for you. Thanks for the insight.

In reply to Amphipathic
6/27/12
Amphipathic:

A cheetah needs strong muscles to catch the gazelle. A gorilla's spot in the pecking order depends on his strength, aggressiveness, and ability to utilize both to beat out the other contenders. The success of a man (at least in a civilized society with law and order) depends NOT on his physical strength, but the content of his mind and his ability to reason, allowing him to pursue his ends in a rational and self-possessed manner. A lot of women fail to make the distinction between men and animals.

I'm a Senior Gorilla, because I have strength, aggression and the ability to utilize both. I also have stuff in my head.

In reply to bankerella
6/27/12
bankerella:
Downeasta:
bankerella:

Of course nobody wants to be a fatass, and everyone loves endorphins... but there is a difference between aiming to stay trim/healthy and aiming to be muscular.

Or is there? Does increased muscle mass make you healthier?

Staying trim/healthy is easier when you have more muscle. The added muscle burns more calories passively, which means you can eat more without gaining weight.

And yes, I'd say that increased muscle mass makes you healthier, within reason and as long as it was obtained naturally. I'm pretty sure that the huge guys who are bench pressing upwards of 800lbs, or have 3% body fat aren't exactly healthy.

I'd say a bodyfat from 7-15%ish is pretty healthy, along with muscle mass suitable for the person's physical limits.

A lot of the skinny guys with low muscle mass end up not-so-trim after the metabolic dropoff in the late 20's.

Precisely. Most don't stay skinny forever, and bad habits developed in youth die hard.

In reply to bankerella
6/27/12
bankerella:

Interesting responses. I'm hearing some people talk as if there were a single spectrum from muscular to fat.

Is that really the case? I would argue that there is a spectrum from thin to fat, and a separate spectrum for muscle mass.

Of course nobody wants to be a fatass, and everyone loves endorphins... but there is a difference between aiming to stay trim/healthy and aiming to be muscular.

Or is there? Does increased muscle mass make you healthier?

Your paradigm is wrong... Check out some art and how to draw the human body.

The closer a man's body ratio is to 1.618 (golden ratio) the more attractive he will be. Getting to that ratio generally means being lean (anything above 20% body fat in men destroys this ratio, as does 25% body fat in women). Between 10 - 20% body fat and a man will get close to the ratio provided he works out a bit and has muscle tone. Refer to Leonardo da Vinci's Vitruvian Man and Michelangelo's David. These are muscular bodies. Not juiced-up rioded ones, but muscular nonetheless. You need sports or the gym to get them in 2012 because banking is a sedentary occupation.

The important ratio for men is the circumference of the shoulder to that of the waist. At sub 20% body fat most guys will get very close to that ratio provided they have a good suit tailor or decent genes. At closer to 10 - 15% body fat you will have that ratio in most situations assuming you're not manorexic, i.e. you lift some weights and eat meat. This affects your shoulders and posture which in turn has a big effect on your ratio (provided you don't have a lot of mid-section fat).

Obviously, genetics matter.

In reply to sayandarula
6/27/12
sayandarula:
Amphipathic:

A cheetah needs strong muscles to catch the gazelle. A gorilla's spot in the pecking order depends on his strength, aggressiveness, and ability to utilize both to beat out the other contenders. The success of a man (at least in a civilized society with law and order) depends NOT on his physical strength, but the content of his mind and his ability to reason, allowing him to pursue his ends in a rational and self-possessed manner. A lot of women fail to make the distinction between men and animals.

i think women can make that distinction logically. however, civilized society has only existed for 5 thousand years (maybe 8 thousand), while humans have been around for hundreds of thousands of years, if not longer. modern women are biologically wired in exactly the same way as their stone-age counterparts... which is why they are still attracted to cheetah or gorilla-like men. not their fault really.

Fair point, programming doesn't get rewired overnight

6/27/12

Muscles on men are extremely attractive...most women I've met who say otherwise are on bc. More importantly, though, as someone who does competitive fitness competitions myself, the rush you get from getting stronger and being physical is unbeatable. It's a way to completely clear your mind/relieve stress and also accomplish things outside of work. Until we're just brains in a jar, physicality matters, and that part of being human should be nourished as well.

6/27/12

Isn't it obvious? You don't do it for the chicks. It sounds gay but you do it for two groups: yourself, and the dudes.

If you're not jacked, you're a fuckin' pussy. That's what I was taught in school. Not even joking. That's just how it was among guys. Like if you weren't ripped you had no room to talk in an argument, because you'd just get shot down when someone goes "dude you're fuckin' small you don't even know what you're talking about." The best part is everybody agreed with that logic.

And maybe it's just me, or just vain people in general - which I consider myself ot be - but I couldn't live with myself if I was flabby and lazy. I'm too insecure. How can I expect myself to be able to accomplish anything significant when I can't even stop myself from being a lazy tub of shit? Congratulations to all the guys out there who are able to be happy in their own skin, but fuck that shit, I can't. I don't have the self-esteem for it.

Bottom line: if you're not jacked... fuckin' pussy.

I hate victims who respect their executioners

In reply to blastoise
6/27/12
blastoise:

Don't worry OP it's because you're a lesbian, explains why you in banking.

Love it. Maladets chuvak.

In reply to aempirei
6/27/12
aempirei:
Angus Macgyver:

I'm no bodybuilder, but I would like to stay within a healthy weight range. I've been hella overweight before, and I have no intention of ever going back that way again.

west_coast_rainmaker is that you?

I actually had the opposite problem. I am still a small guy, but I couldn't put on weight for years. Where did that impression come from?

6/27/12

You need to be fit but not jacked.

In college the gym was packed with dudes with huge upper bodies and no legs. That's just a dead give-away...no self-esteem, no mack game.

From what i see, the guys taking down the serious booty, like the 9+ non-finance NY fashionistas, are built like pro tennis players. They're athletic and pretty balanced in terms of upper and lower body strength.

1-2 hours of weights per week is plenty. Rip up the TRX cables, bike, and cross-training.

I

In reply to BlackHat
6/27/12
BlackHat:

Isn't it obvious? You don't do it for the chicks. It sounds gay but you do it for two groups: yourself, and the dudes.

Bottom line: if you're not jacked... fuckin' pussy.

Kudos for total self-aware honesty. This is my takeaway; it explains 98% of the behavior that had me puzzled. Muchos gracias.

6/27/12

LOL this reads like a thread on the bodybuilding.com forums that you guys occasionally make fun of

6/27/12

ironically saw this thread right before going to gym!

guys definitely think having muscle helps get the chicks. think back to your high school days. who did the hottest girls in school date? the football QB, basketball star, etc etc. through our formative experiences in jr high, high school, and college, it's been ingrained in the American male psyche that working out and having some muscle = success with chicks. and it's been positively reinforced by many of your fellow females.

having said that, most posters here are also right in saying it has to do with health and staying fit. however i'd say a sizable group probably does it for self-image reasons/feeling good/keeping up with the Joneses (these reasons aren't mutually exclusive, btw, I personally do it to stay fit AND to feel great about my body).

However, getting jacked and pumping steel isn't merely about staying fit. excellent fitness could be achieved by merely working out with body weight and resistance--think crossfit, spartacus workout, insanity workout). pop culture definitely plays a role in feeding the American male's self-image. every generation has its "all that is man" image. during the 1970s it was cool to have a mustache, smoke, and wear bell-bottoms. during the 80s and 90s it was cool to be masculine and be jacked (think all those Rocky, Rambo, Arnold movies, + the beach volleyball scene in Top Gun). during the aughts it was cool to have long hair and be emo. Having seen Pumping Iron, I'd argue that Arnold personally helped market and launch the muscle building gym workout fitness craze that has spread across America since the 1980s. if you did a demographic survey of Americans during the 60s and 70s, you'd probably be hard pressed to find many gyms.

women may deny it all they want, but deep down they desire men who look good. do you want a guy with some flab on the stomach (though not fat) or a guy who's toned and defined?

btw " the world does not revolve around chicks" as the OP claims, but research in the field of evolutionary psychology, sexual preferences, and behaviorism definitely has shown that the pursuit of reproductive success drives human society. why are men so achievement-oriented? so that we can attract the best women to produce the genetically fittest offspring (whether that's physically strong, smart, most attractive, etc). even the field of geopolitics has made arguments to the effect of societies that have excess male in population (ie too much unspent testosterone) tend to favor conflict, wars, and conquest. China's one male policy could be a disastrous social engineering policy in that it favors male progeny, from this perspective

6/27/12

Life is about building solid architecture with great design. I lift weights for the reminiscence of high school football, design, endorphines, and perspective. People will think I'm a douche bag or that I think highly of myself (I do), but I have a brother who has pulmonary hypertension. I used to make fun of him because he couldn't work out or play sports. I found out that his life expectancy without meds was 6 months. He takes meds now, but his life expectancy is still not as long as any of us. I lift weights because I have the means of doing so and I'm reminded every time in the gym of someone who wants to look better (my brother) but can't because his body won't let him run / lift weights.

In the other perspective, I would rather have a great vocabulary and utilize an artistic arrangement of words in conversation and have the work ethic of a Mexican.

There is life and death. I'm going to bust my ass to make an impact 'til the latter comes.

6/27/12

My personal view is influenced by having gone from 150 lbs and 6'4" at age 23 to 200 lbs at age 28. I was "skinny-fat" before, say 15% -20% BF, and I have continued in that range, so this is a change of at least 40 lbs of muscle at minimum . Therefore I am by no means "jacked", and I have otherwise normal looks, IE I'm not a good looking guy but don't have any disgusting scars or weird disfigurement.

The difference is astonishing. I used to be all but ignored except by girls who I had established a rapport with for some other reason. Now, while I am by no means Casanova, I can pull girls in clubs (especially the "more liberal" ones) or meet girls easily at parties or bars just by saying hi, sticking around and being friendly.

Is this because I feel better about the way I look and am more confident? Or is it because other people feel better about the way I look and are more interested in me? Maybe a little of both. Of course, I'll never know, because at the same time I've attained higher income, higher social status, graduated school, etc... can't isolate the effects. But my inclination is that 40 lbs of muscle never hurts, and I'm proud of the discipline it took to get here, as I have shit genetics and have never been an athlete.

6/27/12
6/27/12

This discussion has happened multiple times on BB

The answer to your question is 1) network 2) get involved 3) beef up your resume 4) repeat -happypantsmcgee

WSO is not your personal search function.

6/27/12

A fair amount of my friends purely go to the gym to lift -> gain bigger muscles -> attract hotter girls. I personally used to have a somewhat similar mentality, at least in high school. However, now I workout because it makes me feel good (love the post workout feeling), keep healthy and stay in shape. My workout is a good workout of long distance cardio (running/biking), lifting and yoga (j.king..).

Robert Clayton Dean: What is happening?
Brill: I blew up the building.
Robert Clayton Dean: Why?
Brill: Because you made a phone call.

6/27/12

Former D1 Athlete, current Aesthetic Athlete. Training hard for the goal of my Saturday night V-neck

6/27/12

Muscle is directly proportional to male testorone...Working out give u rush of hormones which is comparable to you get after having energy capsules...

Research state that man who work out are more competitive and focus. Moreover long term who doesnot need good physique. Prefect example is scooby ( you can see him on you tube)....he is 50 and still incredibly fit..

In reply to Disincentivy
6/27/12
Disincentivy:

Those who lift religiously and want to look like professional body builders do it because they are passionate about it.

Guys who lift moderately and are ripped/sculpted are hot and they do it to look hot and. Chicks like hot men, and I will take a 6 pack over a "soft" tummy any day.

Not all women have your preferences, Bankerella.

Good explanation, I do it to look more attractive to women, for the health benefits, and as a personal challenge, it's as simple as that. The OP is over analyzing a simple matter.

"Well, you know, I was a human being before I became a businessman." -- George Soros

In reply to BlackHat
6/27/12

I'm pretty content with not working out.

never enjoyed the process, and don't really think the results are worth the hassle.

even if every girl on earth preferred you to have the physique of a Greek god, it wouldn't mean shit. You can't always get what you want...

I rather not spend my time around sweaty dudes, looking in the mirror and checking the scale to see how much weight I gained.

that shit is gay. (go ahead, waste your monkey shits.)

6/27/12

more rows for the hoes

6/27/12
In reply to Febreeze
6/27/12
febreeze:

I'm pretty content with not working out.

never enjoyed the process, and don't really think the results are worth the hassle.

even if every girl on earth preferred you to have the physique of a Greek god, it wouldn't mean shit. You can't always get what you want...

I rather not spend my time around sweaty dudes, looking in the mirror and checking the scale to see how much weight I gained.

that shit is gay. (go ahead, waste your monkey shits.)

All good points... I'm not a fan of the gym at all. Just don't like the culture.

It's so silly to see two grown men on the floor doing sit-ups telling one another to "push it" and "sweat it out bro!"...

6/27/12

six pack keeps the hoes coming back!

6/27/12

sense of accomplishment, chick reasons (but not to be super-jacked), confidence booster, etc.. you name it

You say, you don't like to touch six-packs, so would you prefer a guy who's either skinny like a stick or fat like a pig over a guy who's very fit?

I work out to stay in shape.

6/27/12

idk wtf you guys are talking about who say working out is gay

GBS

6/27/12

average joes > globo gym cobras

In reply to Febreeze
6/27/12
febreeze:

I'm pretty content with not working out.

never enjoyed the process, and don't really think the results are worth the hassle.

even if every girl on earth preferred you to have the physique of a Greek god, it wouldn't mean shit. You can't always get what you want...

I rather not spend my time around sweaty dudes, looking in the mirror and checking the scale to see how much weight I gained.

that shit is gay. (go ahead, waste your monkey shits.)

you mirin' brah?

6/27/12
6/27/12

You're definitely a different breed of woMAN, bankerella.

6/27/12

Relieves stress and to burn excess energy to go to bed at a reasonable hour without ODing on Xanax.

6/27/12

Ma i told ya to buy more Costco protein!!! I'm tryna get jacked and crush all these bishes in my race car bed!!!

In reply to WSOusername
6/27/12
GoldmanBallSachs:

idk wtf you guys are talking about who say working out is gay

Looks like everyone's havin' fun

6/27/12

This is a dumb post created to ignite a reaction, and obviously it was successful.

I work out for two reasons:
1) it makes me look better
2) it feels good

Having a nicer body makes you more attractive. It's as simple as that.

I do however believe that too many men are under the false impression that getting huge will make you better with women. Based on my experience, this is completely false. Getting huge will get you mad respect among your bros, but most women are grossed out by huge bodybuilder bodies. I've never heard of anyone being grossed out by a six pack though, makes me feel a little bit better about myself lol

IMO it's best to look athletic and ripped like a soccer player.

In reply to Do what I gotta do
6/27/12
Do what I gotta do:

You say, you don't like to touch six-packs, so would you prefer a guy who's either skinny like a stick or fat like a pig over a guy who's very fit?

If you're asking for my personal opinion, what I prefer is that kind of natural skinny where there's a little layer (not a big roll) of fat between the skin and the ab muscles. To me, touching people with essentially no subcutaneous fat just doesn't read as touching a human being. It's like touching a mannequin.

I would even prefer a little extra sumpin-sumpin in the ab area over a 7%-body-fat six pack any day of the week.

In reply to bankerella
6/27/12
bankerella:
Do what I gotta do:

You say, you don't like to touch six-packs, so would you prefer a guy who's either skinny like a stick or fat like a pig over a guy who's very fit?

If you're asking for my personal opinion, what I prefer is that kind of natural skinny where there's a little layer (not a big roll) of fat between the skin and the ab muscles. To me, touching people with essentially no subcutaneous fat just doesn't read as touching a human being. It's like touching a mannequin.

I would even prefer a little extra sumpin-sumpin in the ab area over a 7%-body-fat six pack any day of the week.

Helluva troll effort Bankerella

6/27/12
6/27/12

I prefer muscular guys, if he has a six pack, that's even sexier.

In reply to goodmornin
6/27/12
goodmornin:
bankerella:

Or am I just wrong and all chicks but me and my friends really do dig muscle?

I can answer this part. I'm a female banker, and yes - I do appreciate guys that are a bit more built and cut vs beer gut, no definition. My BF has lovely definition and I hope he keeps them up because I like touching them and showing him off. Personally - I like muscular guys so much I can't wait to see Magic Mike when it comes out in the movies this weekend!

This is similar to the make-up/ make-up free... big boobs/ vs small boobs discussion. Some guys are grossed out by girls with too much make-up and big boobs.. but they'd probably be in the minority that also don't like Victorias Secret models.

Can't stand Vitoria's Secret models or any other models. Prefer normal, natural girls.

In reply to bankerella
6/27/12
bankerella:
BlackHat:

Isn't it obvious? You don't do it for the chicks. It sounds gay but you do it for two groups: yourself, and the dudes.

Bottom line: if you're not jacked... fuckin' pussy.

Kudos for total self-aware honesty. This is my takeaway; it explains 98% of the behavior that had me puzzled. Muchos gracias.

I do candid. That's why I'm here. Chalk the other 2% up to that good feeling when you wake up two days after a tough workout and you're too sore to get out of bed. We love that.

I hate victims who respect their executioners

6/27/12

I think this makes it official. There is no doubt on who makes the worst thread posts on this whole site.

6/27/12

delts and traps make the hoes booty clap

In reply to mongoose
6/27/12
JamesHetfield:
goodmornin:
bankerella:

Or am I just wrong and all chicks but me and my friends really do dig muscle?

I can answer this part. I'm a female banker, and yes - I do appreciate guys that are a bit more built and cut vs beer gut, no definition. My BF has lovely definition and I hope he keeps them up because I like touching them and showing him off. Personally - I like muscular guys so much I can't wait to see Magic Mike when it comes out in the movies this weekend!

This is similar to the make-up/ make-up free... big boobs/ vs small boobs discussion. Some guys are grossed out by girls with too much make-up and big boobs.. but they'd probably be in the minority that also don't like Victorias Secret models.

Can't stand Vitoria's Secret models or any other models. Prefer normal, natural girls.

yeah miranda kerr, adriana lima, candice swinpoel...all grenades bro, hard 2 stand looking at those nasty bishes

6/27/12

it's always the fat chicks that get insecure when their man looks better than they do.

In reply to mongoose
6/27/12
JamesHetfield:

Can't stand Vitoria's Secret models or any other models. Prefer normal, natural girls.

Many dudes dig normal/natural girls. If I read you correctly, you probably want a nice natural face, normal healthy young body (i.e., the kind of girl who's lean because she's naturally active and keeps an eye on what she eats), and a great personality. That seems pretty normal.

I think that, just as many guys like natural/normal girls, many girls (myself and various friends included) want a guy with a nice face, a normal healthy young body (one that comes from living a normal active life and not obsessing), and a great personality.

Here's a sample set: if I think about the hundreds of guys in my year at b-school, I would say that the ones that did the best with girls were all sort of slim, chill, laid-back dudes, the kind that probably do a little weightlifting when the schedule permits, but who don't have super-low body fat or a ton of definition. The kind of guys who spend more time playing than working, and more time playing sports than working out. Sure, they can climb some f'ing big mountains, but they don't seem to focus on keeping the six pack. And they did really well... both with their female classmates and with the other (younger, cheaper, easier?) girls on offer.

There were also guys who were really ripped... but they were all either gay or weird and intense. I didn't see them doing that well (though maybe they got a bunch of amazing poon and I just never saw/heard about it).

Maybe there's something different about the b-school phase? I do remember seeing more ripped guys with hot chicks in college. Is it an age thing?

There's another solution as well: maybe all the ripped guys and all the amazing girls who like ripped guys are all too awesome to go to b-school.

Or maybe they do go to b-school, but I just didn't see any of them because they skipped the social scene and all their classes and just went straight to banging each other for two years. That, too, is a distinct possibility. I still see some people in the yearbook and go, "Who was that again?"

But all in all, I'm gonna go with Blackhat. I just don't see the muscle obsession being something that's done for the women.

Unless you all really like cougars. Those guys on the front of romance novels and the ones in the satin cuffs and collars who dance in all-male revues really do appeal to our moms' generation.

6/27/12

I'm going to bet that for the majority of the people here, they don't actually work out BECAUSE of those reasons that have been listed. Yes those are all nice by-products that may get them over the hump of not wanting to go every once in awhile but I think it's mostly due to habit.

If you started when you were younger working out and going to the gym then chances are it's going to develop into a habit and eventually become second nature in your life. Think of the people who you know who work out and then think about how long they have been working out for. Now think about the people that don't, is it because they stopped or because they never really started?

In reply to bankerella
6/27/12
bankerella:
JamesHetfield:

Can't stand Vitoria's Secret models or any other models. Prefer normal, natural girls.

Many dudes dig normal/natural girls. If I read you correctly, you probably want a nice natural face, normal healthy young body (i.e., the kind of girl who's lean because she's naturally active and keeps an eye on what she eats), and a great personality. That seems pretty normal.

I think that, just as many guys like natural/normal girls, many girls (myself and various friends included) want a guy with a nice face, a normal healthy young body (one that comes from living a normal active life and not obsessing), and a great personality.

Here's a sample set: if I think about the hundreds of guys in my year at b-school, I would say that the ones that did the best with girls were all sort of slim, chill, laid-back dudes, the kind that probably do a little weightlifting when the schedule permits, but who don't have super-low body fat or a ton of definition. The kind of guys who spend more time playing than working, and more time playing sports than working out. Sure, they can climb some f'ing big mountains, but they don't seem to focus on keeping the six pack. And they did really well... both with their female classmates and with the other (younger, cheaper, easier?) girls on offer.

There were also guys who were really ripped... but they were all either gay or weird and intense. I didn't see them doing that well (though maybe they got a bunch of amazing poon and I just never saw/heard about it).

Maybe there's something different about the b-school phase? I do remember seeing more ripped guys with hot chicks in college. Is it an age thing?

There's another solution as well: maybe all the ripped guys and all the amazing girls who like ripped guys are all too awesome to go to b-school.

Or maybe they do go to b-school, but I just didn't see any of them because they skipped the social scene and all their classes and just went straight to banging each other for two years. That, too, is a distinct possibility. I still see some people in the yearbook and go, "Who was that again?"

But all in all, I'm gonna go with Blackhat. I just don't see the muscle obsession being something that's done for the women.

Unless you all really like cougars. Those guys on the front of romance novels and the ones in the satin cuffs and collars who dance in all-male revues really do appeal to our moms' generation.

I like the slightly chubbier ones. Just a personal preference. Not fat, but can't do with skinny either.

6/27/12

Bankerella, can you give us some insight on what the typical MBA girl is like?

Do they like to get down?

Are they usually married? If not, do they seize the opportunity to add a few notches?

As you know, it's a big investment. Any thoughts are much appreciated.

In reply to Tommy Too-toned
6/27/12
Tommy Too-toned:

Bankerella, can you give us some insight on what the typical MBA girl is like?

Do they like to get down?

Are they usually married? If not, do they seize the opportunity to add a few notches?

As you know, it's a big investment. Any thoughts are much appreciated.

Wouldn't say I'm a huge expert on the "typical" MBA girl, but in my experience the average of all the chicks I know/knew at my program would be:

25-28 years old

Not married; would typically say they're not looking to get married yet (no idea if this is true)

Trying not to add notches but on the lookout for serious boyfriend potential (which is super awkward/pointless when nobody knows where they'll be in two years and leads to much heartache in the first months of second year)

Finance or consulting background

Low 700's GMAT (Urgh. The message this sends to other female MBA hopefuls makes me want to hurl: "Don't even try to roll with the big dogs because you can't pull it off. Besides, your pussy and a 700 is enough." Bitches, please. Suck it up, get some self-respect, perform on the same level as the men, and walk in knowing you actually belong.)

Drink/party considerably more than other women of same age

Fairly fit (but faces vary a lot)

Fairly sexually conservative from what I hear; typically not freaks in the sack.

Harder to sleep with than other women of same age/hotness; less bang for your buck.

Just reporting what I hear/see.

6/27/12

Sry to actually bring this thread back on point, but I'm actually gonna attempt to answer this now. Obviously theres no one answer but just a bunch of people's opinions on why- so here's mine.

Endorphin release put aside, its all about the competition (like mentioned several times already). But even more importantly, its a competition with all the bullshit taken out of it. Sure getting a good job (i.e. money) has to do with hard work, but it also has to do with knowing the right people, being in the right place at the right time, and having went to the right school. So then you land the job. Now progress in said job is all about having the right people like you, and again being in the right place at the right time.

Strength doesn't give a shit about that. Your body isn't gonna not get in shape because you graduated in 11' as opposed to say 05'. Im not gonna b fat forever because I lifted at gym A, while you lifted at gym B for 4 years. You're not gonna get in better shape than me because of who your roommate's dad is or some shit. Point blank with lifting- I work harder than you, I go further than you. That ,imho, is the true essence of competition. Lol at all the dudes that think money has anything to do with "alpha". 3/4's of the loaded kids I've known in my life have never even had a job, and I'd imagine the higher up any corporate food chain you go, the browner the nose you'll find

GBS

In reply to WSOusername
6/27/12
GoldmanBallSachs:

Sry to actually bring this thread back on point, but I'm actually gonna attempt to answer this now. Obviously theres no one answer but just a bunch of people's opinions on why- so here's mine.

Endorphin release put aside, its all about the competition (like mentioned several times already). But even more importantly, its a competition with all the bullshit taken out of it. Sure getting a good job (i.e. money) has to do with hard work, but it also has to do with knowing the right people, being in the right place at the right time, and having went to the right school. So then you land the job. Now progress in said job is all about having the right people like you, and again being in the right place at the right time.

Strength doesn't give a shit about that. Your body isn't gonna not get in shape because you graduated in 11' as opposed to say 05'. Im not gonna b fat forever because I lifted at gym A, while you lifted at gym B for 4 years. You're not gonna get in better shape than me because of who your roommate's dad is or some shit. Point blank with lifting- I work harder than you, I go further than you. That ,imho, is the true essence of competition. Lol at all the dudes that think money has anything to do with "alpha". 3/4's of the loaded kids I've known in my life have never even had a job, and I'd imagine the higher up any corporate food chain you go, the browner the nose you'll find

Nice answer. Honest, helpful. +1 SB.

I wouldn't agree that a strength/muscle mass competition is necessarily a truly level field -- there are always guys who are built differently, have back problems like one of the previous commenters, etc. But as playing fields go, it sounds pretty level. And (barring steroid abuse), I think bodies are pretty truthful. As a woman, I can absolutely underline this truth: what you do with your life typically shows up pretty clearly in what you look like naked. You can't BS that.

I guess the real problem is that you have to find a way to display your body to other guys if you want to show that you've won the competition, right? Or can you guys just tell how ripped another guy is based on necks, wrists, and what shape you can see through other dudes' clothes?

In reply to bankerella
6/27/12
bankerella:

Here's a sample set: if I think about the hundreds of guys in my year at b-school, I would say that the ones that did the best with girls were all sort of slim, chill, laid-back dudes, the kind that probably do a little weightlifting when the schedule permits, but who don't have super-low body fat or a ton of definition. The kind of guys who spend more time playing than working, and more time playing sports than working out. Sure, they can climb some f'ing big mountains, but they don't seem to focus on keeping the six pack. And they did really well... both with their female classmates and with the other (younger, cheaper, easier?) girls on offer.

There were also guys who were really ripped... but they were all either gay or weird and intense. I didn't see them doing that well (though maybe they got a bunch of amazing poon and I just never saw/heard about it).

Maybe there's something different about the b-school phase? I do remember seeing more ripped guys with hot chicks in college. Is it an age thing?

There's another solution as well: maybe all the ripped guys and all the amazing girls who like ripped guys are all too awesome to go to b-school.

Or maybe they do go to b-school, but I just didn't see any of them because they skipped the social scene and all their classes and just went straight to banging each other for two years. That, too, is a distinct possibility. I still see some people in the yearbook and go, "Who was that again?"

But all in all, I'm gonna go with Blackhat. I just don't see the muscle obsession being something that's done for the women.

Unless you all really like cougars. Those guys on the front of romance novels and the ones in the satin cuffs and collars who dance in all-male revues really do appeal to our moms' generation.

These guys got the most because they didn't think highly enough about themselves to hold to higher standards. If they worked out they wouldn't have got with so many, because they would have higher self esteem and would only date hot ones. Can't imagine there being dozens of hot MBA candidates prancing around at a single school to make that the place to pick up women.

In reply to sayandarula
6/27/12
sayandarula:

if i've learned one thing about women, it's that they have absolutely no idea what they want in a man. they say one thing (and probably believe it) but secretly want something else.

Bingo. Women have literally no idea how to explain what they ACTUALLY want.

6/27/12

Don't we all actually want the same thing?

Roll with me. Don't slow my roll. Be hot, be cool, be honest, be human.

What else is there?

6/27/12

i didn't read any of this thread, but the general nature of the question made me think of this:
http://www.leveragedsellout.com/2006/05/how-to-get...

In reply to WSOusername
6/27/12
GoldmanBallSachs:

Sry to actually bring this thread back on point, but I'm actually gonna attempt to answer this now. Obviously theres no one answer but just a bunch of people's opinions on why- so here's mine.

Endorphin release put aside, its all about the competition (like mentioned several times already). But even more importantly, its a competition with all the bullshit taken out of it. Sure getting a good job (i.e. money) has to do with hard work, but it also has to do with knowing the right people, being in the right place at the right time, and having went to the right school. So then you land the job. Now progress in said job is all about having the right people like you, and again being in the right place at the right time.

Strength doesn't give a shit about that. Your body isn't gonna not get in shape because you graduated in 11' as opposed to say 05'. Im not gonna b fat forever because I lifted at gym A, while you lifted at gym B for 4 years. You're not gonna get in better shape than me because of who your roommate's dad is or some shit. Point blank with lifting- I work harder than you, I go further than you. That ,imho, is the true essence of competition. Lol at all the dudes that think money has anything to do with "alpha". 3/4's of the loaded kids I've known in my life have never even had a job, and I'd imagine the higher up any corporate food chain you go, the browner the nose you'll find

I could not agree more. On that same line of thinking, I believe a lot of it has to do with the relative instant gratification that comes from working out on a steady basis. In my experience, career oriented individuals are also very goal oriented. When it comes to working out, an additional 1/4 of a mile or an extra rep from the last workout can turn my whole day around. Achieving simple goals in fitness can be achieved in days/weeks, but the same can not always be said for career goals that can take decades.....

6/28/12

I believe i am an attractive male, although i am aware that i am tall and skinny. I lifted weights in middle school. never got buff lol After high school everybody lifts weights. I don't lift weights because I would rather be doing something else with my time. II compare lifting weights to the same as having a hobby like playing the guitar. I'm sure girls like muscles, but guys care alot more about physical features than girls do. It would be a plus to be "built" but i would rather invest my time in building my mind, self, personality, job skills and knowledge-Those are long lasting and i think a better investment. Having a great body comes and goes (unless you keep it up)- i think it's only important to be healthy. I'm not the type of guy that would want to- in my opinion--> WASTE 1 hour or 30 minutes of my day to work out. I figure girls like money more than mass anyways. But every chick is different..Some are angels, some are sluts. Some are gold diggers :)

6/28/12

B/c you can't be a true alpha if you are a skinny bitch

Impossible is nothing

In reply to bankerella
6/28/12
bankerella:

Many dudes dig normal/natural girls. If I read you correctly, you probably want a nice natural face, normal healthy young body (i.e., the kind of girl who's lean because she's naturally active and keeps an eye on what she eats), and a great personality. That seems pretty normal.

Er...kind of but at the visceral core, not really. To understand what I'm saying, do the following: (1) Find any man. (2) Start talking to him. (3) Have a smoking chick with huge boobs (showing cleavage), a nice hourglass figure, and kardashianesque ass walk by. Repeat above process with a "normal" chick. Second case he will be able to continue the conversation without missing a beat. First case, he will stop talking completely and basically forget where he is until the girl has passed by.

bankerella:

I think that, just as many guys like natural/normal girls, many girls (myself and various friends included) want a guy with a nice face, a normal healthy young body (one that comes from living a normal active life and not obsessing), and a great personality.

Here's a sample set: if I think about the hundreds of guys in my year at b-school, I would say that the ones that did the best with girls were all sort of slim, chill, laid-back dudes, the kind that probably do a little weightlifting when the schedule permits, but who don't have super-low body fat or a ton of definition. The kind of guys who spend more time playing than working, and more time playing sports than working out. Sure, they can climb some f'ing big mountains, but they don't seem to focus on keeping the six pack. And they did really well... both with their female classmates and with the other (younger, cheaper, easier?) girls on offer.

There were also guys who were really ripped... but they were all either gay or weird and intense. I didn't see them doing that well (though maybe they got a bunch of amazing poon and I just never saw/heard about it).

Maybe there's something different about the b-school phase? I do remember seeing more ripped guys with hot chicks in college. Is it an age thing?

Several observations:

- Girls generally prefer guys at the top of whatever social hierarchy in which said girls (and guys) find themselves. If being ripped / muscular is an important part of moving up the hierarchy for men, you'll see attractive girls with ripped / muscular men. If it's not, it won't matter as much and could even become a detriment if it's too far outside the hierarchical norm or takes away from social value building activities. This is why a guy that is jacked and tan, parties hard, and sells cell phones at a mall kiosk to pay the bills will probably crush hot girls in San Diego, but would find himself out of luck in San Francisco. At b-school the laid back, put-together, social guys are the kind of guys that will end up doing well in a management / corporate environment so they are at the top of the social hierarchy, and therefore pull the most girls. You saw more ripped dudes with attractive girls in college because there jocks are more often at the top of the hierarchy (think d-1 athletes - essentially celebrities) so that skews male attractiveness more towards the muscular end of the spectrum.

- A lot of times people that appear to be laid back and do everything with little effort actually work really hard to obtain their results. They just downplay the work so it only seems as if they don't try hard. With ease and grace...

- Fun, laid-back guys always pull chicks whether they are jacked, skinny, or fat. Chicks like to laugh and have a good time. If they equate you with a good time and laughs, deal is sealed.

In reply to labanker
6/28/12
labanker:

- Fun, laid-back guys always pull chicks whether they are jacked, skinny, or fat. Chicks like to laugh and have a good time. If they equate you with a good time and laughs, deal is sealed.

Word. I can absolutely vouch for the fact that girls love to be with guys that can show them a fun, chill, laid-back time and who can laugh at the world and themselves.

6/28/12

Speaking of working out, as a regional analyst in FT training that enjoys exercising regularly, does anyone know of any cheaper (as in cheaper than Equinox, LA Fitness, etc) gyms in Midtown NYC where I could get a one month membership without paying some exorbitant amount? The hotel gym is not gonna cut it.

In reply to bankerella
6/28/12
bankerella:

Don't we all actually want the same thing?

Roll with me. Don't slow my roll. Be hot, be cool, be honest, be human.

What else is there?

Credit where credit is due, that's pretty well put. Don't know that there is anything else and, if there is, I don't care. Is that from somewhere?

6/28/12

The whole premise of this thread is flawed. Wall street guys don't "love muscles." Some of the work out a lot. Some of them don't. Some of them lift, some of them run. Some girls like muscles, some don't. There are plenty of douchey things people do, is caring about muscles really a question that warrants being asked? Some do it for competition, health. A lot do it for vanity reasons (and regardless of what people say, a lot of people who do it purely for vanity reasons find the willpower to stick with it and get pretty big). The OP and a lot of posters here just overgeneralize when most of the points can't even be said for "most people." People have extremely different interests, motivations, etc. What a useless thread. OP really needs to understand human beings better if she even needs to ask this question.

In reply to EPS
6/28/12
EPS:

B/c you can't be a true alpha if you are a skinny bitch

/thread

I hate victims who respect their executioners

6/28/12
In reply to Disincentivy
6/28/12
Disincentivy:

Those who lift religiously and want to look like professional body builders do it because they are passionate about it.

Guys who lift moderately and are ripped/sculpted are hot and they do it to look hot and. Chicks like hot men, and I will take a 6 pack over a "soft" tummy any day.

Not all women have your preferences, Bankerella.

/End thread

6/28/12

Best advice a PT gave me was to add muscle mass/get into shape during my uni years. Then you just need to maintain it while working which is 10x easier. Workout 3 times a week for 1 hour ish and eat well to maintain - and you are sorted for life. :) Thats what I'm doing...

Edit: also being able to bang your girl in more positions then one (the fit guys will know what i mean) is definitely worth the extra bench press in the gym imo.

In reply to signposts
6/28/12
signposts:
bankerella:

Don't we all actually want the same thing?

Roll with me. Don't slow my roll. Be hot, be cool, be honest, be human.

What else is there?

Credit where credit is due, that's pretty well put. Don't know that there is anything else and, if there is, I don't care. Is that from somewhere?

It's from f'ing Bankerella, where else?

6/28/12

I was talking to this wildly successful entrepreneur yesterday and he told me he takes the stairs whenever possible. I asked why? His response, which I wish to give here, is: BECAUSE I FUCKING CAN.

You have one body. Get muscles, stay fit, exercise, run, lift. Doesn't matter what you do. Keep in shape and stay healthy.

"You stop being an asshole when it sucks to be you." - IlliniProgrammer

6/28/12

130 posts and nobody mentions the Zombies... because when they come, we better be ready...

Seriously now... We are wired to exercise, not to sit in a chair. For about 1.2 million years, we moved 10+ miles a day and worked hard. That wiring doesn't disappear overnight. Personally, I have to work out just to feel calm. When I'm in the gym, I don't notice too much around me. I'm not there to read 'People Magazine' while pedaling at 20rpm on the sit-down bike, watch TV while I stroll away on the elliptical, or look around at everyone while I rep out 20lb pull-downs and leg extensions. (Wait... maybe I do notice things around me)... Anyway, I'm there to see how hard I can push myself and/or how much I can get out of the two hours I have. I absolutely love the feeling of destrominating (CrossFitters... go read "BeastModalDomains") myself. It was an easy goal in the military... 'be faster, stronger and more capable then the other guy.' But, I must admit, I have wondered what the 'why' is now... I don't think "staying in shape" is a real goal. I think the people you talking about (and more) have a target they are working toward: Being an elite exerciser (CrossFitters), a multi-sport exerciser (Triathletes), etc. Then, there are people, who (maybe like myself), to quote Kenny Powers, "(aren't) trying to be good at exercise." Maybe we love that feeling of getting closer to reaching our potential as human beings, at least in the physical sense. Physical health may be only one part of the full human potential (spiritual, emotional, intellectual, physical) but it's a major part, and I think we are all lacking, and subject to the consequences of its absence, without it, regardless of whether we are conscious of it all.

6/29/12

Anyone prefer endurance sports?

I used to be a pretty serious lifter during highschool and college, but then gradually transferred to endurance sports. As mentioned before, it's hard to quantify a goal for lifting (maybe raise the benchpress max or something, but eventually you will hit a wall), whereas in endurance sports you can train to run a marathon in less than three hours or finish an ironman or whatever and always have new goals. Only doing pushups, pullups, situpus and some stuff for the lower back now. Actually trying to reduce mass.

I guess lifting is also more popular in the US due to all the sports that require being big in contrast to the more popular sports in Europe like soccer.

6/29/12

I have to lift...my penis looks like someone glued an acorn to to my midsection

I eat success for breakfast...with skim milk

6/29/12
6/29/12

What about the rampant use of steroids within the muscle sub-culture in Banking? Surely, this is about vanity and or narcissism (not about being a sport professional, different conversation).

Anecdotally, I know of one international dealer rumored to be supplying over a $1mm of gear to NYC with a significant percentage earmarked for Wall Street.

"That State which separates it's scholars from it's warriors will have it's thinking done by cowards, and it's fighting done by fools."

- Thucydides, from The Peloponnesian Wars.

6/29/12

OP is / might be a fat chick. But not a problem, some dudes dig fat chicks.

Most people enjoy the routine, discipline, personal accomplishment. It can also give people self-confidence.

6/29/12

Bankerella:

First, I just vomited in my mouth a bit, but I understand your curiosity.

Second, I think this might be a shallow interpretation for those who like to train for mental and physical well-being. Of course, we all love the aesthetic benefits and result from our hard work.

I started weightlifting and bodybuilding because I enjoyed it; I was originally a runner and was told to lift to loose some fat, run faster and prevent injuries. Soon after I started lifting I got pretty passionate about it. It's enjoyable putting up weight, which is now my primary activity. It is interesting to see what someone is capable of, whether it be at work, riding a motorcycle, or athletics, so I push a lot of damn weight around. It is fun to push yourself and friends. It is fun to try new eating styles, bulking and cutting.

The reasons why I lift:

1) I FEEL GOOD
2) Fat loss
3) I can run much faster
4) Increases esteem/confidence
5) Wellness and prevention of illnesses for when I'm an old timer
6) I LOOK GOOD
7) I have a shot at defending myself/people in distress/family

OH. I'll add this:

I like my women athletic. I don't want someone who doesn't take care of themselves. I like 'em fit, healthy and sexy.

Spoken like a grown ass man from a non-target,

Love,
Eric

6/29/12

To be aesthetic of course. Helps with appearance, confidence, and health. You don't want to appear like a slob, but strong and built

6/29/12

I think the guy who made the fashion comparison nailed it - Much like fashion, which most guys appreciate to a certain point, but don't really understand why girls obsess about it, I think most girls appreciate a fit guy, but beyond a certain point the benefits are marginal at best.

So working out and getting fit helps get girls up to a certain point (80 percent of the results for effort 20 percent above mean), but beyond that point it is mostly to feel confident in front of other dudes and to make yourself feel better (by blowing off some steam, testosterone, etc).

I think bankerella's evaluation of the MBA social scene is pretty spot on (including the observations on girls), and being a jacked athlete is not as important once you graduate from college - it is the ok shape and savvy/comfortable in their own skin guys who pull the girls whether its MBAs, undergrads, or just random girls at bars. Also, its hard to go out and drink if you have to maintain 6% bodyfat.

6/29/12

It's quite simple, really. You only need to know two things in life: What you want and how you can get it. Men who go into finance tend to be more ambitious and materialistic than the average male. They like the idea of being attractive to women and being able to intimidate other men. With regards to the latter, building muscle is certainly effective. Men are simple creatures when it comes to sizing each other up. As for the former, I think most men realize you get farther on charm and wit than on muscle. However, there is no direct way for improving those aspects of your brain, whereas muscle building is so simple that even bodybuilders can do it...

There is a bit of cleverness involved here though. You see, most women might only be marginally attracted to big muscles. On the other hand, women 'are' attracted to social prominence. When a man becomes big enough that other men start to treat him differently (i.e. with more respect and attention), that translates to a perceived elevated status. And this elevated status can cause women to feel more attracted to the guy, regardless of how they feel about muscles in general.

6/29/12

I don't like uber muscles, but I like working out for a few reasons:

- Looking good feels good most of the time,
- Most women (and guys!) like guys that look good (for more than physical reasons),
- Eating good food is GOOD, and
- It's better than a billion hours of video games, TV and/or porn!

The alternatives are amazing:

- Log everything and anything I eat down to the type of carbohydrate and its intake pathways,
+ and say good-bye to drinking with friends, eating great dessert or lots of the stuff I eat on the weekend
- Watch a billion hours of video games, TV and/or porn,
- Stay at work for 50 more hours a week and make a ton of money I can't use, or
- Nothing

As a disclaimer, I actually like big women as do a bunch of guys I've worked out with...it's all about confidence, feeling good and living life.

[quote]
Anyone prefer endurance sports?

I used to be a pretty serious lifter during highschool and college, but then gradually transferred to endurance sports. As mentioned before, it's hard to quantify a goal for lifting (maybe raise the benchpress max or something, but eventually you will hit a wall), whereas in endurance sports you can train to run a marathon in less than three hours or finish an ironman or whatever and always have new goals. Only doing pushups, pullups, situpus and some stuff for the lower back now. Actually trying to reduce mass.

I guess lifting is also more popular in the US due to all the sports that require being big in contrast to the more popular sports in Europe like soccer.
[/endquote]

I'm a road cyclist and there are plenty of folks I've worked out with that lift as part of their training regimen for running or whatever. Endurance sports are fun but totally destroy muscle mass if maintaining it isn't made a priority.

6/30/12

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6/30/12
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10/2/12

I eat success for breakfast...with skim milk

10/2/12

I eat success for breakfast...with skim milk

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