$20K Bonuses at Goldman - We're now in the 99%!!! 
The retrenchment has hurt morale among lower-tier workers. Young bankers and traders fresh out of Ivy League universities can no longer count on earning more than their peers in other prestigious industries, such as management consulting and law. Rounds of layoffs, which used to be aimed mainly at senior and midlevel employees, have cut through the junior ranks this year at firms like Credit Suisse, and bonuses are down for nearly everyone.
At Goldman Sachs, some young analysts — a group that could earn year-end cash bonuses of up to $80,000 in better years — were given as little as $20,000 this year, according to one person with knowledge of this year’s numbers.
from http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2012/01/19/the-new-normal-on-wall-st-smaller...
Just not worth it. I'd be
Just not worth it. I'd be out!
It's all about the exit
It's all about the exit opps.
...and the presitge
"Social cohesion and puritanical morality place roughly on my list of concerns between whether I'll pick up jock itch at the gym this week (not likely, since I don't go the gym) and whether it'll rain in Christchurch, New Zealand next Tuesday."
-Eddie
$20K bonus after a year in
$20K bonus after a year in banking in NYC is horrible. I would be livid.
MSF Website
MACC Website
MSF Twitter
W/ all-in comp after taxes
W/ all-in comp after taxes that has to be like $10-12/hr right?
Edit: It's like $20/hr Pre-tax. Damnnn. Managing a McD's is where it's at.
RagnarDanneskjold wrote: W/
W/ all-in comp after taxes that has to be like $10-12/hr right?
Not far away from that number if you're banging out 100 hour weeks.
Yeah, but would you quit?
Yeah, but would you quit?
this is depressing... i
this is depressing... i think some analysts will have a negative balance in their checking accts.
That's not the annualized
That's not the annualized number though, remember analysts start in the summer, so annualized that bonus would be 40k.
Also remember it's all leaked info, someone in the comments on dealbreaker said top bucket was actually 70k annualized.
ANT wrote: $20K bonus after a
$20K bonus after a year in banking in NYC is horrible. I would be livid.
ANT, this is the 6 month stub for first years... as usual, they didn't bother to get full detail in their reporting. That being said... a $37k full year bonus, which is what this would extrapolate to... is fucking terrible... this is why I was so frustrated in the other thread on compensation.
"In summary, people are morons and who cares. Make a shit ton of money. I've never seen a Ferrari paid for by what people think." - ANT
Word on the street is that
Word on the street is that 1st year Associates over there at GS got double fucked - No base increase along with a shitty bonus.
Not good for those with families and/or needing to repay B-school loans.
I can't stress enough how shitty life as an IBD associate is
lol hahah. Oh man, I hope
lol hahah. Oh man, I hope telling the ladies at the bar that you work for Goldman helps you get laid b/c not being able to buy them any drinks surely wont!
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SpacemanSpiff wrote: I can't
I can't stress enough how shitty life as an IBD associate is
WHAT THE HELL AM I GOING TO DO AFTER BSCHOOL THEN?!?!?
J/K, sort of.
COME TO THE WSO CONFERENCE!!!!!
So a company doesn't do well
So a company doesn't do well and its employees don't get large bonuses...sounds like capitalism.
Thurnis Haley wrote: So a
So a company doesn't do well and its employees don't get large bonuses...sounds like capitalism.
LOL
|| Everything to Gain - Nothing to Lose ||
But feeling good and enjoying life are prerequisites to success, not by products of it - Midas Mulligan Magoo
well i guess it could be
well i guess it could be worse....
Thanks Rufio for clarifying
Thanks Rufio for clarifying it. Missed that part.
And we really should stop calling these bonuses, since they are really deferred compensation packages. They lure a carrot in front of you for a year, telling you to bust nut for the real reward and then shaft you in the end. I would be pissed also and look elsewhere for work.
If you want to retain talent you pay them.
MSF Website
MACC Website
MSF Twitter
I don't believe this isn't as
I don't believe this isn't as bad as it appears. First of all, base salaries continue to go up compared to pre-recession levels. Back in 2007 a first year made $60K base. Now it's what, $70k, maybe as much as $80k? (Yes, I'm out of the loop). Second, the bonus number of $20k represents the low bucket. Notice how the article says "as little as $20k." I'm sure there are people pulling in higher amounts. Finally, if this is a stub bonus, the annualized amount brings pay back up on par with historical levels (adjusted for market factors).
Sure, it sucks not getting paid as much as the analysts who came before you simply because it was a bad market, but I don't think this news is bad enough to warrant quitting over.
CompBanker
ANT wrote: Thanks Rufio for
Thanks Rufio for clarifying it. Missed that part.
And we really should stop calling these bonuses, since they are really deferred compensation packages. They lure a carrot in front of you for a year, telling you to bust nut for the real reward and then shaft you in the end. I would be pissed also and look elsewhere for work.
If you want to retain talent you pay them.
Could not agree more... this was my entire point in the previous thread... Glad to hear others have a sane view of this bullshit
"In summary, people are morons and who cares. Make a shit ton of money. I've never seen a Ferrari paid for by what people think." - ANT
CompBanker wrote: I don't
I don't believe this isn't as bad as it appears. First of all, base salaries continue to go up compared to pre-recession levels. Back in 2007 a first year made $60K base. Now it's what, $70k, maybe as much as $80k? (Yes, I'm out of the loop). Second, the bonus number of $20k represents the low bucket. Notice how the article says "as little as $20k." I'm sure there are people pulling in higher amounts. Finally, if this is a stub bonus, the annualized amount brings pay back up on par with historical levels (adjusted for market factors).
Sure, it sucks not getting paid as much as the analysts who came before you simply because it was a bad market, but I don't think this news is bad enough to warrant quitting over.
Compbanker, sorry I respect your opinion on almost everything on this forum, but you're wrong about this. Have a best friend at GS, first year and he is top bucket and he confirms these numbers as their top bucket numbers. I wouldn't quit over this either, clearly there is still a lot of merit to the job, but the pay is pretty bad.
"In summary, people are morons and who cares. Make a shit ton of money. I've never seen a Ferrari paid for by what people think." - ANT
So we're actually looking at
So we're actually looking at $100k all-in first year comp at Goldman Sachs - the "marquee" firm of Wall Street.
If you're racking up six-figure student loans to get into finance, you'd better pull your head out of your ass - and FAST.
I've seen this movie before.
$40k annual pretax --> $20k
$40k annual pretax --> $20k stub pretax --> $12k after tax?
$65k annual pretax --> $32.5k stub pretax --> $19.5k after tax?
$7.5k difference from what they'd get in the bank had it been a great 2H 2011, not a huge deal in my opinion. If they get another $40k next year, then it'd be a real problem.
Edmundo Braverman wrote: So
So we're actually looking at $100k all-in first year comp at Goldman Sachs - the "marquee" firm of Wall Street.
If you're racking up six-figure student loans to get into finance, you'd better pull your head out of your ass - and FAST.
I've seen this movie before.
Again, this is a stub bonus. Annualizing it to $40k is a bit unfair since the second half of 2011 was really bad because of the Euro crisis, and a whole year of that degree of crappy markets seems pretty unlikely, but even then it'd be a $120k all in first year pay.
at least it's cash bonus. I
at least it's cash bonus. I won't say who I work for, but my year end is being paid out in restricted stock, 2 year vest. Cash is kind in this market, I can give less of two shits about getting stock.
So first year base at GS is
So first year base at GS is $80k now?
goldman in da house
So we're actually looking at $100k all-in first year comp at Goldman Sachs - the "marquee" firm of Wall Street.
If you're racking up six-figure student loans to get into finance, you'd better pull your head out of your ass - and FAST.
I've seen this movie before.
Again, this is a stub bonus. Annualizing it to $40k is a bit unfair since the second half of 2011 was really bad because of the Euro crisis, and a whole year of that degree of crappy markets seems pretty unlikely, but even then it'd be a $120k all in first year pay.
Hate to break it to you, but when I got my stub it ended up being dead on point annualized to what the first year annual was last summer... Could be in for a very frustrating year end
"In summary, people are morons and who cares. Make a shit ton of money. I've never seen a Ferrari paid for by what people think." - ANT
rufiolove wrote: CompBanker
I don't believe this isn't as bad as it appears. First of all, base salaries continue to go up compared to pre-recession levels. Back in 2007 a first year made $60K base. Now it's what, $70k, maybe as much as $80k? (Yes, I'm out of the loop). Second, the bonus number of $20k represents the low bucket. Notice how the article says "as little as $20k." I'm sure there are people pulling in higher amounts. Finally, if this is a stub bonus, the annualized amount brings pay back up on par with historical levels (adjusted for market factors).
Sure, it sucks not getting paid as much as the analysts who came before you simply because it was a bad market, but I don't think this news is bad enough to warrant quitting over.
Compbanker, sorry I respect your opinion on almost everything on this forum, but you're wrong about this. Have a best friend at GS, first year and he is top bucket and he confirms these numbers as their top bucket numbers. I wouldn't quit over this either, clearly there is still a lot of merit to the job, but the pay is pretty bad.
rufiolove, I don't necessarily think we disagree. I think that your note instead proves that the article was miswritten. If $20k is indeed the top bucket number, then the pay is definitely a lot lower than in the boom years. $70k + $40k annualized bonus of $110k is obviously lower than when the markets were hot, when top bucket first years were closer to $150k all-in.
CompBanker
CompBanker, we are talking
CompBanker, we are talking about Associates. So now it's 100k base + 40k (annualized from 20k stub) for first full year of an Associate = 140k. That's much much worse than "expected" 125k base (in the past there was always bump in the salary after first 6 months on the job) + ~100% bonus for first-full year = ~250k all in. Roughly 100k less!
I did two years in M&A of a
I did two years in M&A of a bulge bracket and am in middle market PE currently. I have been sour about pay in the past...still am. However, when you are in banking, you shouldn't be doing it totally for the money. If that is the sole reason, any happiness will wear off real quick. That said, not to mean you can't be upset (as I said I have been) when you consider the amount of work you put in, etc. However, I don't feel bad for an analyst at GS, MS, etc. Somewhat said it earlier, its all about exit opportunities.
It's hard to remember, but its worth while to take a step back and recognize no one gets wealthy at 23-25 years old. I have never heard about an MD, partner, etc. reflecting on the wealth they created in their 20's...
When does 2011 Comp database
When does 2011 Comp database get updated?
orange100 wrote: CompBanker,
CompBanker, we are talking about Associates. So now it's 100k base + 40k (annualized from 20k stub) for first full year of an Associate = 140k. That's much much worse than "expected" 125k base (in the past there was always bump in the salary after first 6 months on the job) + ~100% bonus for first-full year = ~250k all in. Roughly 100k less!
orange100,
The articles said the $20k was the analyst bonus and all of the comments above (except one) references analysts. You sure we are talking about associates? I agree a $40k annualized bonus for associates would be a royal kick in the nuts, but I don't think that is the case here.
CompBanker
That's what I heard (but it's
That's what I heard (but it's not official info). 20k stub for Associates seems indeed low, but is in line (roughly) with Associate stubs at other BB ~30-35k (and that's confirmed info). So, even assuming 35k stub and no pay increase, total first full year comp is ~170k (100k base + stub*2) vs. expected ~250k. Still, huge difference IMHO.
Goddamn. Shit better clear
Goddamn. Shit better clear up in the next couple years before I get into the FT market. That's scary low no matter how you look at it. I'd still owe 100k on my undergrad degree when I started applying for B School.
Romneybot wrote: Goddamn.
Goddamn. Shit better clear up in the next couple years before I get into the FT market. That's scary low no matter how you look at it. I'd still owe 100k on my undergrad degree when I started applying for B School.
Wait...just so I'm clear: you're a sophomore in college now, and you still want to go into finance and are willing to go $100k in debt to do it?
Are you out of your fucking mind?
Edmundo Braverman
Goddamn. Shit better clear up in the next couple years before I get into the FT market. That's scary low no matter how you look at it. I'd still owe 100k on my undergrad degree when I started applying for B School.
Wait...just so I'm clear: you're a sophomore in college now, and you still want to go into finance and are willing to go $100k in debt to do it?
Are you out of your fucking mind?
LOL I was thinking the same thing.
-MBP
Incoming freshman. College
Incoming freshman. College is getting ridiculously expensive for target undergrad programs and it's not getting any better any time soon. Shit's fucked everywhere. At least with economics into IB, I'd get the exit opps after 2 years as an analyst, which puts me in a hell of a lot better situation than most people in paying off student loans. I'd like to get payed enough as an analyst to pay as much off as I can, but this is ridiculously low. 100k was an exaggeration, but it's gonna be more than I'd like. I'm holding out hope things will get better, or at least manageable enough in IB by the time I graduate to get me through B School into a long term career where I can pay off the rest. I'm aiming for CorpDev.
Romneybot wrote: Incoming
Incoming freshman. College is getting ridiculously expensive for target undergrad programs and it's not getting any better any time soon. Shit's fucked everywhere. At least with economics into IB, I'd get the exit opps after 2 years as an analyst, which puts me in a hell of a lot better situation than most people in paying off student loans. I'd like to get payed enough as an analyst to pay as much off as I can, but this is ridiculously low. 100k was an exaggeration, but it's gonna be more than I'd like. I'm holding out hope things will get better, or at least manageable enough in IB by the time I graduate to get me through B School into a long term career where I can pay off the rest. I'm aiming for CorpDev.
Are you at least at HYP? By the time you graduate, I think the economy and industry will be in a worse spot then it is right now. I would seriously consider a school change to something more affordable. 2015 will not be the same place as it is now.
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Romneybot wrote: Incoming
Incoming freshman. College is getting ridiculously expensive for target undergrad programs and it's not getting any better any time soon. Shit's fucked everywhere. At least with economics into IB, I'd get the exit opps after 2 years as an analyst, which puts me in a hell of a lot better situation than most people in paying off student loans. I'd like to get payed enough as an analyst to pay as much off as I can, but this is ridiculously low. 100k was an exaggeration, but it's gonna be more than I'd like. I'm holding out hope things will get better, or at least manageable enough in IB by the time I graduate to get me through B School into a long term career where I can pay off the rest. I'm aiming for CorpDev.
To echo Eddie, WHY THE FUCK WOULD YOU GO TO B SCHOOL IF YOU WANT TO WORK IN CORP DEV??? IS THAT A JOKE?
You can easily get into corp dev after working for a year in banking, at worst 2... you wouldn't get any benefit from going to b school if that's your end goal. If they force you to go to b school or want to pay for it, then cross that bridge when you come to it. It's mind blowing to me how kids are willing to piss away 150k on an education to get a job that they could get by putting in a few cold calls... YOU are the reason you think you need an MBA, not the job.
"In summary, people are morons and who cares. Make a shit ton of money. I've never seen a Ferrari paid for by what people think." - ANT
Wow I can't stand the
Wow I can't stand the comments in this thread so I will comment.
1) THIS IS STILL A TON OF MONEY BY ANY STANDARD.
2) 1st year's got a sign on they factor that in in bad years. Same for associates
Let's go over numbers
1st year an: 70k (prorated 5 months = 30k) + 20k stub + 10k signon = 60k for 5 months of work
1st year asso: 110k (prorated 5 months = approx 45k) + 40k signon + 25k -30k stub
So let's not all sit there and say "OMG THIS ISNT ENUFF money" for fcks sake
3) Your friend confirms this is top bucket? How the fuck does your friend confirm that he is top bucket? My friend is in HR and I have other data points
4) Stubs are not ranked - everyone gets the same. Other banks had lower stubs and so did other banks for analysts
I digress ... but enough with the whining jesus christ. and for all the trolls / haters. I work at a BB, am not an analyst, and I got paid top but I've seen the good years and the bad years. All of this sht evens out over time
^^ Rufio Love - Most people
^^ Rufio Love - Most people do corp dev hoping to climb ladder to become next CFO / CEO. You still need an MBA for credibility.
It's funny how everyone thinks 2 years in banking is the magic fcking ticket to every career in life
ANT wrote: Thanks Rufio for
Thanks Rufio for clarifying it. Missed that part.
And we really should stop calling these bonuses, since they are really deferred compensation packages. They lure a carrot in front of you for a year, telling you to bust nut for the real reward and then shaft you in the end. I would be pissed also and look elsewhere for work.
If you want to retain talent you pay them.
This.
Stop calling it a fucking bonus. No one works in this industry for the base. It's fucking year-end compensation. Get it right. I want to take my dick out and bitch slap all these reporters across the face with it for propegating the myth of the year-end "bonus." Want me to work 80-90 hours a week in a pressure cooker? Fuck you. The base ain't gonna cover it. Hand over the money.
Only thing diff at GS this
Only thing diff at GS this year is no pay increase.
Asso stub at other banks is 22k to 35k. JPM paid the most.
manbearpig wrote: Edmundo
Goddamn. Shit better clear up in the next couple years before I get into the FT market. That's scary low no matter how you look at it. I'd still owe 100k on my undergrad degree when I started applying for B School.
Wait...just so I'm clear: you're a sophomore in college now, and you still want to go into finance and are willing to go $100k in debt to do it?
Are you out of your fucking mind?
LOL I was thinking the same thing.
I would think that the earning potential in finance for someone passionate about it and committed long term would exceed the debt incurred in college to get there. Certainly it makes more sense than incurring 100k in debt to become a public school teacher in NYC. The same logic is applicable to a career changer who goes for an MBA and looks at the opportunity cost of not working for 2 years at whatever job they may have had before.
I personally think that pursuing a career just for the money isn't the greatest motivational factor to wake up and perform every morning. If you don't enjoy it, that paycheck isn't going to buy you happiness. There are lots of people who leave finance for that particular reason and find the next step to be far more rewarding, even if they aren't pulling down gigantic bonuses.
^ Agreed. I've had many
^ Agreed.
I've had many friends of mine leave as 3rd year associates and go to B school. Many have joined startups and their stock options are worth more than my next 3 years bonuses combined.
Don't knock it if you don't want to face the harsh realities
Edmundo Braverman wrote: So
So first year base at GS is $80k now?
No. Still 70.
Ravenous wrote: Get it right.
Get it right. I want to take my dick out and bitch slap all these reporters across the face with it ... Fuck you ... Hand over the money.
^ Winner
I award you 50 theoretical points, and a SB as soon as I'm out of the hole.
COME TO THE WSO CONFERENCE!!!!!
Trend this year seems to be
Trend this year seems to be no stub to Analyst 1 or Assoc 1 pay increase.
This thread is a fucking
This thread is a fucking cluster.
You first need to determine whether or not this is talking about analysts or associates. It doesn't seem like the article is trustworthy but if you take it at face value, then we are talking about analysts.
We also need to figure out whether we are talking about stub or full year. The article doesn't specific say what time period the bonus is referring to, although it says 'this year'. What banks pay their analysts stubs? I didn't think this was very common practice, so if anyone knows for sure what's done at GS, maybe they can let us know.
Given the wording in the article it would seem that $20k is referring to a bottom bucket bonus. Which doesn't seem unreasonable if you are shitty 1st year. Obviously that would hurt a lot, but it wouldn't be the end of the world...in fact, you should probably be happy you weren't fired, lol.
My guess is the article is poorly worded and/or the author has been research it for a few weeks, thus the 'this year' comment.
Does it really seem that far fetched that a 1st year analyst received a $20k bonus if he was bottom bucket?
Regards
"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so."
- Ronald Reagan
DebunkingMyths wrote: ^^
^^ Rufio Love - Most people do corp dev hoping to climb ladder to become next CFO / CEO. You still need an MBA for credibility.
It's funny how everyone thinks 2 years in banking is the magic fcking ticket to every career in life
Debunking you can still get in without an MBA, you shouldn't fork out money for an MBA till they tell you that you need one, thanks for the lesson though.
"In summary, people are morons and who cares. Make a shit ton of money. I've never seen a Ferrari paid for by what people think." - ANT
cphbravo96 wrote: This thread
This thread is a fucking cluster.
You first need to determine whether or not this is talking about analysts or associates. It doesn't seem like the article is trustworthy but if you take it at face value, then we are talking about analysts.
We also need to figure out whether we are talking about stub or full year. The article doesn't specific say what time period the bonus is referring to, although it says 'this year'. What banks pay their analysts stubs? I didn't think this was very common practice, so if anyone knows for sure what's done at GS, maybe they can let us know.
Given the wording in the article it would seem that $20k is referring to a bottom bucket bonus. Which doesn't seem unreasonable if you are shitty 1st year. Obviously that would hurt a lot, but it wouldn't be the end of the world...in fact, you should probably be happy you weren't fired, lol.
My guess is the article is poorly worded and/or the author has been research it for a few weeks, thus the 'this year' comment.
Does it really seem that far fetched that a 1st year analyst received a $20k bonus if he was bottom bucket?
Regards
cph see my post above. I have direct info from my friend at GS and he was paid slightly under $20k as his stub. GS pays first years a stub.
"In summary, people are morons and who cares. Make a shit ton of money. I've never seen a Ferrari paid for by what people think." - ANT
How much of this can be
How much of this can be attributed to many GS prop desks winding down?