MSF or MBA in fin?
Hello,
So I need some advice on possibly enrolling into a MSF program. I graduated from a State school (non-target) in Business Marketing. Currently working in a tech company as an online marketers. I want to get into finance & I've looked into the m.s. in applied finance program at Pepperdine University. Would this be better or just getting an actual MBA in finance. I'm aware that the prestigious schools are known for weaving in finance & economics, such as LBS. I heard there is almost none to limited on-site recruiting by firms at Pepperdine. The reason for Pepperdine is because I would like to stay working in Los Angeles.
I want to know, is this program (est. tuition $60k) actually worth it to launch a career in finance? I'm possibly considering a career in either in ER or real estate finance. Thanks in advance!
Why not Haas or Anderson?
Why not Haas or Anderson?
"That dude is so haole, he don't even have any breath left."
FeelingMean: Why not Haas or
Why not Haas or Anderson?
I feel that my undg GPA won't cut it, unless I have an amazing GMAT score. Although, my GMAT score practice tests are below 600 at the moment (first try). I heard that lots of international students enroll in the MSF at Pepperdine? I want to know if it would be worth the investment for 1 yr.
Well, most folks here will
Well, most folks here will (likely) tell you that unless the MSF is from a "name brand" school with established placement stats, it is not worth the investment. 60K is expensive for a degree without a good notion of placement.
That being said, the program itself looks pretty interesting, and will likely give you some sort of advantage.
I probably should not be helping you, as I am from the East Coast and have limited knowledge of schools on the West Coast. I was just curious as to why you were set on Pepperdine.
Best of luck man.
"That dude is so haole, he don't even have any breath left."
Also, although there is
Also, although there is limited info on Pepperdine (I checked), you should check out MSFHQ if you have not done so. You might find an option you had not considered?
"That dude is so haole, he don't even have any breath left."
If you want to stay in LA go
If you want to stay in LA go to USC. They are # 1 in LA with an incredibly loyal alumni base in LA.
TraderJoe1976: If you want to
If you want to stay in LA go to USC. They are # 1 in LA with an incredibly loyal alumni base in LA.
Yeah I've definitely heard about the loyalty. They call it the "Trojan Mafia" - hypothetically, lets say I don't get into USC (well include UCLA too, since its pretty tough to get into), would you say that getting an MBA isn't worth it then? If I plan to stay living/working out of LA.
And yea, thanks! I will def look into the MSFHQ stats
I've alwasy thought of the
I've alwasy thought of the MSF degree as on the path towards a PhD and MBA more towards industry just my input
I did an MSF a couple of
I did an MSF a couple of years ago and what I found was that coming out of school you'll be spending a lot of time explaining that you did not get an MBA and politely implying it is better. Now 2 years later (with a little work exp.) I find myself applying to jobs which require an MBA (not terribly unsuccessfully) so that being said, I think an MSF is a great option if you are going relatively soon after undergrad and once you get passed your first job post-MSF will not have much trouble selling it as an MBA equivilant.
It will also give you a lot more depth of your finance knowledge. I remember in my program the MSFs (considerably younger with less real world exp.) tutoring MBA and EMBA students in finance. (Slightly funny but great networking)
Also I would say having done a 1 year program, trying to work and get an MSF is a pretty tall order. I tried to work part time and it definitely hurt my GPA. I had to cut down my hours quite a bit and didn't graduate with as stellar a GPA as I was hoping. So consider taking the time off if you can (which also opens up your options of school!)
Best of luck with your decision!!
pdoher01: I did an MSF a
I did an MSF a couple of years ago and what I found was that coming out of school you'll be spending a lot of time explaining that you did not get an MBA and politely implying it is better. Now 2 years later (with a little work exp.) I find myself applying to jobs which require an MBA (not terribly unsuccessfully) so that being said, I think an MSF is a great option if you are going relatively soon after undergrad and once you get passed your first job post-MSF will not have much trouble selling it as an MBA equivilant.
It will also give you a lot more depth of your finance knowledge. I remember in my program the MSFs (considerably younger with less real world exp.) tutoring MBA and EMBA students in finance. (Slightly funny but great networking)
Also I would say having done a 1 year program, trying to work and get an MSF is a pretty tall order. I tried to work part time and it definitely hurt my GPA. I had to cut down my hours quite a bit and didn't graduate with as stellar a GPA as I was hoping. So consider taking the time off if you can (which also opens up your options of school!)
Best of luck with your decision!!
This is great stuff! I appreciate the input...with this MBA career advancement requirement. How important would you say the rank of the mba program is? Top 20 or so? Or is it just necessary/relevant to have an mba degree, lets say from Pepperdine.
I don't know too much about
I don't know too much about the Pepperdine program. I would imagine that it is mostly Pepperdine UG's or foreign students. Considering you have work experience and are not foreign (I assume) you should push for some type of scholarship or tuition assistance.
You could also go to online route and do an MSF from Indiana or Penn State. Both are reputable schools, would be cheaper than Pepperdine and allow you to work. I'd recommend Claremont which is slightly outside LA, but you will need to increase your GMAT (think 700). If you want a Cali based MSF with a shot at OCR and placements, CMC is your best shot.
Frankly, I cannot believe that CMC is the sole main stream program on the West Coast. I think USC would be an ideal competitor, but I haven't heard anything about them starting a program. Stanford doesn't need to offer it and UCLA has a solid MFE program. If you were near San Fran I would recommend the Financial Analysis MSF that USF has.
As mentioned above, the MSF is still misunderstood, but that is slowly changing. Every year more and more of us graduate and seek jobs, mainly in finance. I'd imagine that close to 1,000 MSF students graduate from the various programs so sooner or later HR will have to get with the program. Until then get your elevator pitch down and sell yourself and the benefits of the degree.
Personally, I think we are all value investors right now in the MSF space. Outside of the T15 schools you are seeing a drop in application because people simply cannot justify 2 years off for an MBA with limited ROI. Doing a specialized degree with only 1 year off and typically less tuition lowers the hurdle rate. I wouldn't be surprised if more schools within the T16-40 space begging offering MSF programs (I think you are seeing the beginnings of this). Makes financial sense and will augment declining MBA applications/admissions.
MSF Website
MACC Website
MSF Twitter
I think it is all relative
I think it is all relative based on what you want to do. There are a lot of people on this site who seem to think not having a top 20 MBA would be the WORST thing that ever happened to them. I think that is a little extreme. Yes there are some firms that are going to require a highly ranked MBA to get in. These are going to be the firms that demand your SAT scores and think of other equally elitist measures to weed out the riff raff.
My personal opinion is who really wants that? Sure getting in early to these firms will mean a higher salary, but for how long? You get to a point where if you have good exp. and are smart the $$ becomes pretty comparable. And you also have to take into account the opportunity cost of an MBA (2 years and lot of student debt). In some cases it is totally worth it. But if you think out 5 years down the road and can be in the same place you want to end up, then do whatever makes the most sense now.
I think the biggest problem with a lot of the things I read on this site (sorry not trying to get on a soapbox or anything) is that people seem to think there is one and ONLY one path to get to where you want to go. In the real world it just isn't like that. People who are smart and make good decisions excel, those who are not do not. I don't have a top 20 MBA and maybe I'm talking out of my ass, but at the end of the day that's just a number. My rule on schools is have-I-heard-of-it? If pretty much anyone in the country has heard of your school (the exception being heard of it because it may not be great like ITT Tech) then it is probably ok. I think most folks have heard of Pepperdine so you are pretty safe.
The other thing I would add to the MSF vs. MBA debate is this whole idea of school rankings. Since the MSF is a little less well known than the MBA my opinion is those rankings become less important, because of the specialty nature of an MSF.
pdoher01: I think it is all
I think it is all relative based on what you want to do. There are a lot of people on this site who seem to think not having a top 20 MBA would be the WORST thing that ever happened to them. I think that is a little extreme. Yes there are some firms that are going to require a highly ranked MBA to get in. These are going to be the firms that demand your SAT scores and think of other equally elitist measures to weed out the riff raff.
My personal opinion is who really wants that? Sure getting in early to these firms will mean a higher salary, but for how long? You get to a point where if you have good exp. and are smart the $$ becomes pretty comparable. And you also have to take into account the opportunity cost of an MBA (2 years and lot of student debt). In some cases it is totally worth it. But if you think out 5 years down the road and can be in the same place you want to end up, then do whatever makes the most sense now.
I think the biggest problem with a lot of the things I read on this site (sorry not trying to get on a soapbox or anything) is that people seem to think there is one and ONLY one path to get to where you want to go. In the real world it just isn't like that. People who are smart and make good decisions excel, those who are not do not. I don't have a top 20 MBA and maybe I'm talking out of my ass, but at the end of the day that's just a number. My rule on schools is have-I-heard-of-it? If pretty much anyone in the country has heard of your school (the exception being heard of it because it may not be great like ITT Tech) then it is probably ok. I think most folks have heard of Pepperdine so you are pretty safe.
The other thing I would add to the MSF vs. MBA debate is this whole idea of school rankings. Since the MSF is a little less well known than the MBA my opinion is those rankings become less important, because of the specialty nature of an MSF.
I agree. there are many different routes to success.
I also want to quote something I posted before.
I think there are several factors not raised here so I thought I will raise them.
The key thing is the branded school, not MBA or MSF. Last I checked in Linkedin, there are tons of Indians with MBAs from India and they want to break into Investment Banking too. So will a bank hire a someone with a Princeton MSF or that person with an MBA from India? I would dare to go further and say the person with the MIT or Princeton MSF will be better placed that someone with an MBA from a non target in the US. If you really want to rank, here it does:
Branded MBA > Branded MSF > Non Target MBA > Non Target MSF > MBAs or MSFs from overseas nobody has heard of.
Now it seems that the branded MBA is the best choice yes? Not necessarily. Certain sectors in banking require you to be young to break in. For example, if you are 35 years old with 10 years of non relevant experience, your chances of breaking in will be less higher than someone younger. The thing is most MBAs require you to have a certain amount of experience to be considered for the program unlike the MSF program which you can even join right after graduation from undergrad. An MBA job applicant will be older than other candidates and the result in the hiring process between someone older with a branded MBA and someone younger with a branded MSF is unclear.
Also, your MBA is the LAST Chance for you to rebrand yourself. You will be surprised that some people are still unclear in their 30s on what they want to pursue in life. If you had taken the MSF, worked a few years and want to move on to something else, you still can take an MBA. If you had taken the MBA, that is your last chance to rebrand yourself. You cannot take another MBA again. There is no such thing as double MBA (well, even if there is, I doubt it is worth it).
Lastly, like what ANT said, there are many factors that affect whether you get the job or not. You need to work on networking. Aggressively. You also need to be open to other job opportunties. There are many areas that pay as well as Investment Banking but not that well advertised, like real estate, commodities trading and energy trading.
Imperialian: pdoher01: I
I think it is all relative based on what you want to do. There are a lot of people on this site who seem to think not having a top 20 MBA would be the WORST thing that ever happened to them. I think that is a little extreme. Yes there are some firms that are going to require a highly ranked MBA to get in. These are going to be the firms that demand your SAT scores and think of other equally elitist measures to weed out the riff raff.
My personal opinion is who really wants that? Sure getting in early to these firms will mean a higher salary, but for how long? You get to a point where if you have good exp. and are smart the $$ becomes pretty comparable. And you also have to take into account the opportunity cost of an MBA (2 years and lot of student debt). In some cases it is totally worth it. But if you think out 5 years down the road and can be in the same place you want to end up, then do whatever makes the most sense now.
I think the biggest problem with a lot of the things I read on this site (sorry not trying to get on a soapbox or anything) is that people seem to think there is one and ONLY one path to get to where you want to go. In the real world it just isn't like that. People who are smart and make good decisions excel, those who are not do not. I don't have a top 20 MBA and maybe I'm talking out of my ass, but at the end of the day that's just a number. My rule on schools is have-I-heard-of-it? If pretty much anyone in the country has heard of your school (the exception being heard of it because it may not be great like ITT Tech) then it is probably ok. I think most folks have heard of Pepperdine so you are pretty safe.
The other thing I would add to the MSF vs. MBA debate is this whole idea of school rankings. Since the MSF is a little less well known than the MBA my opinion is those rankings become less important, because of the specialty nature of an MSF.
I agree. there are many different routes to success.
I also want to quote something I posted before.
I think there are several factors not raised here so I thought I will raise them.
The key thing is the branded school, not MBA or MSF. Last I checked in Linkedin, there are tons of Indians with MBAs from India and they want to break into Investment Banking too. So will a bank hire a someone with a Princeton MSF or that person with an MBA from India? I would dare to go further and say the person with the MIT or Princeton MSF will be better placed that someone with an MBA from a non target in the US. If you really want to rank, here it does:
Branded MBA > Branded MSF > Non Target MBA > Non Target MSF > MBAs or MSFs from overseas nobody has heard of.
Now it seems that the branded MBA is the best choice yes? Not necessarily. Certain sectors in banking require you to be young to break in. For example, if you are 35 years old with 10 years of non relevant experience, your chances of breaking in will be less higher than someone younger. The thing is most MBAs require you to have a certain amount of experience to be considered for the program unlike the MSF program which you can even join right after graduation from undergrad. An MBA job applicant will be older than other candidates and the result in the hiring process between someone older with a branded MBA and someone younger with a branded MSF is unclear.
Also, your MBA is the LAST Chance for you to re brand yourself. You will be surprised that some people are still unclear in their 30s on what they want to pursue in life. If you had taken the MSF, worked a few years and want to move on to something else, you still can take an MBA. If you had taken the MBA, that is your last chance to re brand yourself. You cannot take another MBA again. There is no such thing as double MBA (well, even if there is, I doubt it is worth it).
Lastly, like what ANT said, there are many factors that affect whether you get the job or not. You need to work on networking. Aggressively. You also need to be open to other job opportunities. There are many areas that pay as well as Investment Banking but not that well advertised, like real estate, commodities trading and energy trading.
I totally agree with you on the branding part. The only issue is getting into these programs. If someone said, quit your job today - your going to Stanford GSB - I would do it in a heartbeat.
I'm averaging around a 600 on the GMAT. I plan to heavily study for it all summer. (off tangent) I'm taking my LSAT june 11th, which my practice tests are 155 out of 180. I will heavily study for the GMAT all this summer & see how I'm doing on my practice tests. Personally, if all the stars align for me, the best school I might possibly get into is USC (& I want to stay occupied in Los Angeles, because of family). Currently, I'm about to turn 23 after the summer, so I don't really have the issue of age being a factor.
In the previous 2nd post - I don't think I could do Indiana, only because I learn best with a teacher in a small class setting. My biggest concern with pursuing any MBA or MSF is the ROI on that degree. I have no assistance from parents & I was the first to go to college out of my family. I have plenty of expenses (rent, utilities, car payments, etc) so I can't just quit my job and work as a summer analyst @ some hedge fund/consulting firm.
I have been networking & like you said about possibly getting into real estate, even my friends are telling me that I need actual experience financial modeling for about a year with a previous real estate employer.
I know that I don't want to grow old & look back saying, I wish I would have pursued a graduate degree of some sort, but I risk not advancing in my career if I don't pursue something. With the current state of the economy & with the elections coming up, I'm really just kind of stuck at the company I work at for the moment. I'm sorry if It sounds like I'm just going on a rant, but I'm just upset that every job I would like to apply to needs previous experience. Its almost like someone, in my network, would have to cut me some slack & help me get on my feet.
Ideally, I would score very well on my GMAT this summer. Learn financial modeling & terminology on my own. Get hired working as an analyst for a few years, then by 26 or so, go back to get an branded MBA from the highest ranked school I could possibly get into (this is ideal, worth the financial investment)
I feel if I get an MSF, I would highly reconsider going back to get my MBA because the cost is quite high for even that 1 yr degree.
From the previous post - I checked out CMC MAF program, it sounds like it accepts people more engineering/math/technical backgrounds with GMAT scores 700+ (That would be a huge stretch for me, since I work in marketing, with a BS in Business Marketing degree)
Anyways, I want to thank everyone for all the comments posted, I truly have been taking your advice to heart & its very informative - Thank you!!
The MBA is a much more
The MBA is a much more marketable degree, one that will become the "gift that keeps on giving" down the road when it's time to find a new job.
Bryant Michaels
Veritas Prep Consulting
Chris
I think it is all relative based on what you want to do. There are a lot of people on this site who seem to think not having a top 20 MBA would be the WORST thing that ever happened to them. I think that is a little extreme. Yes there are some firms that are going to require a highly ranked MBA to get in. These are going to be the firms that demand your SAT scores and think of other equally elitist measures to weed out the riff raff.
My personal opinion is who really wants that? Sure getting in early to these firms will mean a higher salary, but for how long? You get to a point where if you have good exp. and are smart the $$ becomes pretty comparable. And you also have to take into account the opportunity cost of an MBA (2 years and lot of student debt). In some cases it is totally worth it. But if you think out 5 years down the road and can be in the same place you want to end up, then do whatever makes the most sense now.
I think the biggest problem with a lot of the things I read on this site (sorry not trying to get on a soapbox or anything) is that people seem to think there is one and ONLY one path to get to where you want to go. In the real world it just isn't like that. People who are smart and make good decisions excel, those who are not do not. I don't have a top 20 MBA and maybe I'm talking out of my ass, but at the end of the day that's just a number. My rule on schools is have-I-heard-of-it? If pretty much anyone in the country has heard of your school (the exception being heard of it because it may not be great like ITT Tech) then it is probably ok. I think most folks have heard of Pepperdine so you are pretty safe.
The other thing I would add to the MSF vs. MBA debate is this whole idea of school rankings. Since the MSF is a little less well known than the MBA my opinion is those rankings become less important, because of the specialty nature of an MSF.
I agree. there are many different routes to success.
I also want to quote something I posted before.
I think there are several factors not raised here so I thought I will raise them.
The key thing is the branded school, not MBA or MSF. Last I checked in Linkedin, there are tons of Indians with MBAs from India and they want to break into Investment Banking too. So will a bank hire a someone with a Princeton MSF or that person with an MBA from India? I would dare to go further and say the person with the MIT or Princeton MSF will be better placed that someone with an MBA from a non target in the US. If you really want to rank, here it does:
Branded MBA > Branded MSF > Non Target MBA > Non Target MSF > MBAs or MSFs from overseas nobody has heard of.
Now it seems that the branded MBA is the best choice yes? Not necessarily. Certain sectors in banking require you to be young to break in. For example, if you are 35 years old with 10 years of non relevant experience, your chances of breaking in will be less higher than someone younger. The thing is most MBAs require you to have a certain amount of experience to be considered for the program unlike the MSF program which you can even join right after graduation from undergrad. An MBA job applicant will be older than other candidates and the result in the hiring process between someone older with a branded MBA and someone younger with a branded MSF is unclear.
Also, your MBA is the LAST Chance for you to re brand yourself. You will be surprised that some people are still unclear in their 30s on what they want to pursue in life. If you had taken the MSF, worked a few years and want to move on to something else, you still can take an MBA. If you had taken the MBA, that is your last chance to re brand yourself. You cannot take another MBA again. There is no such thing as double MBA (well, even if there is, I doubt it is worth it).
Lastly, like what ANT said, there are many factors that affect whether you get the job or not. You need to work on networking. Aggressively. You also need to be open to other job opportunities. There are many areas that pay as well as Investment Banking but not that well advertised, like real estate, commodities trading and energy trading.
I totally agree with you on the branding part. The only issue is getting into these programs. If someone said, quit your job today - your going to Stanford GSB - I would do it in a heartbeat.
I'm averaging around a 600 on the GMAT. I plan to heavily study for it all summer. (off tangent) I'm taking my LSAT june 11th, which my practice tests are 155 out of 180. I will heavily study for the GMAT all this summer & see how I'm doing on my practice tests. Personally, if all the stars align for me, the best school I might possibly get into is USC (& I want to stay occupied in Los Angeles, because of family). Currently, I'm about to turn 23 after the summer, so I don't really have the issue of age being a factor.
In the previous 2nd post - I don't think I could do Indiana, only because I learn best with a teacher in a small class setting. My biggest concern with pursuing any MBA or MSF is the ROI on that degree. I have no assistance from parents & I was the first to go to college out of my family. I have plenty of expenses (rent, utilities, car payments, etc) so I can't just quit my job and work as a summer analyst @ some hedge fund/consulting firm.
I have been networking & like you said about possibly getting into real estate, even my friends are telling me that I need actual experience financial modeling for about a year with a previous real estate employer.
I know that I don't want to grow old & look back saying, I wish I would have pursued a graduate degree of some sort, but I risk not advancing in my career if I don't pursue something. With the current state of the economy & with the elections coming up, I'm really just kind of stuck at the company I work at for the moment. I'm sorry if It sounds like I'm just going on a rant, but I'm just upset that every job I would like to apply to needs previous experience. Its almost like someone, in my network, would have to cut me some slack & help me get on my feet.
Ideally, I would score very well on my GMAT this summer. Learn financial modeling & terminology on my own. Get hired working as an analyst for a few years, then by 26 or so, go back to get an branded MBA from the highest ranked school I could possibly get into (this is ideal, worth the financial investment)
I feel if I get an MSF, I would highly reconsider going back to get my MBA because the cost is quite high for even that 1 yr degree.
From the previous post - I checked out CMC MAF program, it sounds like it accepts people more engineering/math/technical backgrounds with GMAT scores 700+ (That would be a huge stretch for me, since I work in marketing, with a BS in Business Marketing degree)
Anyways, I want to thank everyone for all the comments posted, I truly have been taking your advice to heart & its very informative - Thank you!!
if you are only 23, why think about an MBA????
just take an MSF n go into finance. no pt getting non irrelevant work to clock up the no. of yrs of work exp just to get an MBA.
Well it is difficult for me