All about Treasury/ Corporate Treasury!
Hello Everyone,
I searched through the forum and could not find much structured info about treasury. So wish to compile scattered info about treasury. Anything from what is treasury? entry barriers, how to be a treasurer, salaries, best organizations to work with, exit options, relevant certifications / courses and so on, Challenges as a treasurer ..
My two cents from what I know,
Basics: Treasury / corporate Treasury is a dept of bank or any company which does some/ all of following functions (list varies from company to company)
- Cash Management
- Working Capital Management
- Raising finances, investing funds in multiple currencies and in multiple financial instruments
- Risk Management
- Forecasting
- Reporting
- Relationship management with bankers and other investors
- One time investments (projects), M&A
- As a treasurer work with CFO for capital structurer / strategy
IMO the hierarchy goes like this:
Treasury Analyst/ sr Treasury Analyst/ Assist to Treasurer (don t know exact role name) Treasurer
Exit Options:
Pvt consultancy,sr positions in corporate banking, M&A specialist, anything related to risk mgmt, I guess PE and VC should also work.
I know all this is very basic stuff, but I request all the srs to contribute further also add related forum.
Thanks for the info.
I was contacted by a headhunter recently about a treasurer-type role. I wonder how much there is opportunity to move up within corp finance to CFO->CEO type jobs at typical larger companies? Is that typical or is there another role that feeds into CFO? If there are obvious threads on this topic I have missed them, please just say so :)
I'm not in-industry, this comes from discussions I've had with people on the topic and extensive research.
Here's an interesting breakdown: http://www.russellreynolds.com/content/where-do-chief-financial-officer…
To quote one part of it (the whole thing is absolutely worth reading):
Further down it says most CFO's don't have all those experiences, but it seems like that's the future of the position. The CEO position is very different and really depends on the industry in many cases. A lot of the newly promoted CEOs seem to have recent, substantial general management experience (in charge of an important/large division). Honestly though, you know getting to CEO is a crapshoot, even at a mid-sized company.
It's also not unusual for someone to go from, say, Manager at an F500 to a Director or CFO role at a mid-size or even smaller company, and then come back as a Senior Manager or Director at the larger company (or maybe as a Manager in headquarters vs Manager at a division). It also isn't unusual for someone to move to a smaller company in the CFO spot and not get any hits trying to move back to a larger company. Everything comes down to your background and your luck (of course, the luck can be swung in different directions depending on the effort you put into it). There really is no cut-and-dry path after you hit Senior Financial Analyst.
There are a million routes to take, wish I had time to type out all the options. Really you just need to have a strong network, ask their advice, keep in contact with them, etc.
Great insight @D M and I totally agree, you can move in "n" no of directions after sr analyst kind of role. With regards to @"BirdTurglar", your question pertaining to treasury, I guess you can move up to the CFO lader after being Treasurer but here main point is your interest. If you enjoy working in treasury kind of environment and perform the treasury roles, you will find some direction to climb up the ladder post this particular job. Let me know what you think.
Awesome info MSFin and D M
Questions: - What is in your opinion the best way to get into treasury? - What is the treasury departments/roles where you get the widest range of "treasury experiences" rather than a narrow piece of the pie? Banks vs. F500 and others? Salary doesn't matter: Banks seem like the way to go for treasury, due to the obvious fact that alot of cash circulates through the business + investing, etc. But am I correct in this assessment?
IMHO, - Best way is to get treasury related experience and always keep eye on treasury openings. Apply whenever you find one. I have heard they are very few and restricted to certain locations. - I think best place is a organization (preferably a bank) which has huge multi currency transaction and frequent cash flows. - I am not sure about pay scale but heard its good.
AMA. I work in Corporate Treasury at GE.
Like MSFin, I've compiled what I've found:
Treasury Role-1. Cash Forecasting
Treasury Role-2. Working Capital / Capital Management Ensure that sufficient cash is available for operational needs. • If insufficient cash, raise capital • If excess cash, invest it o matching the maturity dates of investments with a company’s projected cash needs o maximize return while taking on a minimum level of risk (and possibly make strategic investments)
Treasury Role-3. Risk Management Hedging tactics to mitigate the whole company’s risk: • rise in interest rates (and associated payments) • ForEx rates
Treasury Role-4. Financial Management Align capital raising/allocation strategies with corporate strategy. What for example is the most appropriate capital structure? How are potential investments appraised? Is an asset providing the required return and if not should it be disposed of?
Treasury Role-5. Relationship Management: Credit Rating Agencies and Banks
Treasury Role-6. Operations & Controls: - Act as the company’s bank account (e.g. handling collections, payables, dividends etc.) - Institute controls to manage points 1-4
Regarding the size of these groups you can expect most of then to be in the 20-30 person range.
What is the difference between corporate treasury and working in the treasury department at an investment bank? Are the same thing?
Info on Corporate Treasury? (Originally Posted: 08/14/2012)
I'm interested in applying to the 'corporate treasury' division at Goldman Sachs, and the equivalent divisions at other BBs (the ones that have such a division). I know about what the role involves but I'm not too sure about its 'rank' (FO, MO or BO?). I don't care much about the prestige but I just need an indication of the kind of salary this type of role offers? Also the typical hours? How competitive to get in?
There isn't much info on corporate treasury at GS on the web so any input would be much appreciated!
This...This is actually a really good question. Hopefully someone here can provide insight. I also can't find anything on this.
.
http://financecareers.about.com/od/finance/a/corptreasury.htm
Appears to be MO to me.
Salary would probably be 60-65k base + 10k signing..
bonus? I dont know
If you regard Market/Credit risk as MO (which many people do on this forum), then Corporate Treasury at GS is very MO. With regards to salary, a first year analyst's salary can range anywhere from 80k all in at a decent MM/BB FI in NYC to 105-110k all in at a very prestigious BB (think GS, MS, JPM). Corporate Treasury is usually in the finance division; however, think of it as the nexus/top of the house that binds a FI together. As a result, exit ops are fairly good for a MO/BO position. In fact from my personal experience, ~50% of the people I've talked to in Corp Treasury have come from FO positions or moved back and forth between MO/FO/MO. Granted your exit ops will most likely be limited to DCM/liquidity products on the S&T side or CFA on the IB side, but it's still not bad. Interviews are noticeably harder than finance/ops, but less quantitative/comprehensive then IB/S&T/Risk.
Where are you getting your information from? And what does CFA on the IB side mean?
What is the difference between corporate treasury and working in the treasury department at an investment bank? Are the same thing?
Well, there are various aspects of treasury. There are the front office people that are managing the firms cash from their balance sheet. These folks are investing in short term securities; terming out repo, etc. Not a lot of risk taking here, however they're doing it with billions of doll hairs. Then you have the folks in MO type roles. They're providing reports and such on the risk, balance sheet things. Booking the trades, working with the settlements teams, and moving the cash are other parts of this.
Honestly, corp. treasury is one of the least stressful/cushy front office roles you can have. That being said, it's very competitive to get into these roles, as no one ever wants to leave. Some people will spend their entire career in this position at one firm. Also, I'm not sure what the exit opps entail for this.
@"pktkid10" does your statement primarily relate to treasury at a FI or corporate treasury at F500 and the like as well?
@"b2banker" this specifically is for a bulge bracket bank. Smaller companies will be more compressed and you will share many of the aforementioned duties.
Say you're at a F500 your duties probably will include currency hedges, based on business operation exposure. Also, if you produce a commodity like product you will be managing the futures for said natural long/short. There does seem to be somewhat of a demand for these roles, despite the infrequent vacancies, as the skillset is pretty niche-like.
The Treasury/Money Markets Path (Originally Posted: 04/29/2011)
I recently finished Marcia Stigum's Money Markets and I'm currently reading Eurdollar Futures & Options by Burghardt and I was wondering whether anyone had some suggestions as far as good money market careers.
I'm waiting on a couple grad school apps for Msc in Finance (LSE and Bocconi) and I'm trying to figure out what types of positions to focus on. I've been reading up on the short-end of the yield curve because it affects the pricing of virtually everything else and it seems that a sophisticated treasury department or a money market/fx desk at a BB would be ideal places to trade macro products and potentially move on to the buyside. Does anyone know of people who have made this kind of transition and what banks might have sophisticated enough treasuries that would prepare me for the buyside?
From what I've seen, short term desks and collateral desks are the easiest to get into. I think you could go straight into a buy side short term desk straight out of grad school and be a PM. I've seen a few guys do that actually. That was post MBA and not MF though, but I still think it would be very possible and likely.
Were these guys going into macro hedge funds or large asset management firms?
Thanks Something Creative. I'm interested in the more sophisticated side to be honest. I work in AM and the money market funds I've seen don't get too crazy, the just buy a lot of commercial paper and munis and ride them out.
Yeah, i agree, the funds are going to be pretty lame and boring. A firm that does its own cash management instead of using some kind of sweep vehicle is going to be way better. There you will see a lot of euro$, EURIBOR, repo, reverse repo, CP, etc. It's still going to be a little less exciting and sexy than some other desks, but it would be way more involved than simply a full on money market fund. I'm not super interested in it myself, but i still think it could be pretty cool.
Quick bump to this thread. Does anyone here know how people join large bank treasuries? Working as a dealer on a treasury desk seems like a great way to gain exposure to macro-oriented trading and take on prop risk without getting "Volcker ruled." Banks don't advertise this kind of postition nearly as much as the regular IBD or S&T analyst positions so I was wondering whether anyone knew what the typical path is.
No idea, but I do have a question of what a typical analyst in Treasury at a BB (particularly the funding group) would do. Any ideas? Anyone? Bueller?
Hey Goodbread,
I am not to sure if this what your looking for, but TD securities recruits for treasury positions out of undergrad/grad schools. Here is the link below if your interested.
http://www.tdsecurities.com/tds/content/Car_creditAssoc-TresCred?langua…
[quote=jimz]Hey Goodbread,
I am not to sure if this what your looking for, but TD securities recruits for treasury positions out of undergrad/grad schools. Here is the link below if your interested.
http://www.tdsecurities.com/tds/content/Car_creditAssoc-TresCred?langua…]
Not exactly. After some more digging, this is the kind of thing I'm looking for: http://careers.bankofamerica.com/campusrecruiting/usfn-corporate-treasu… And more specifically, what this person is doing: http://www.insidecareers.co.uk/__802574d8005177b3.nsf/id/894lbtakim!ope…
Bumping this thread...curious about this path as well. Thanks.
WTF is "Treasury Solutions" (Originally Posted: 12/02/2012)
I have been searching through the WSO a lot and this is what i can find for treasury
Corporate Treasury - where F500 companies manage their cash, assets and liabilities under the CFO office
Treasury Desk - normal trading desk in the dealing room where traders buy and sell US Treasuries & other govt. bonds
Bank
s Own Treasury - banks have their own treasury department which manages the cash, assets and liabilities on the banks balance sheet. i think the london whale lost money on one of these prop desks at JPMTreasury Solutions - as part of the corporate banking program, the banks manage the treasury of the F500 companies or provide some services to the treasury/CFO office of these companies
i am assuming the BAML GTS group falls under the 4th category. can somebody please confirm this and offer ANY background info on this group (what are their day-to-day tasks, is it a FO/BO position, what skills do they require, exit ops)
thanks!
josh
this is what the BAML website says...
GTS (Global Treasury Solutions) Sales provides our Corporate and Financial Institution client base with payment, receipt, liquidity and other working capital management solutions.
GTS brings a holistic suite of services to clients, backed by unmatched investment and commitment to delivery. Our products and services improve our clients cash management, including: bank accounts, money transfers and collection services, investment facilities, interest bearing account, money market deposits, financing facilities and deposit and withdrawal facilities
.
Treasury solutions AKA small hedge funds at JPM.
Uh, pretty sure thats just selling treasury services. No finance involved. You will just help pitch payroll services to the treasury departments of corporates. At my bank these guys are constantly brought in to cross-sell treasury management products to our usual clients.
I do not recommend it as a first job out of school if you want to be a finance guy. It may be good for you if you aspire to be a salesman.
Edit; other stuff they sell: payroll, lockboxes, escrow, shareowner services, transfer agency... think like any traditional commercial bank's fee for service
Depends bank-to-bank. Citi's treasury solutions group includes trade finance. BofA's corp. treasury is not part of their treasury solutions division.
Treasury, in house-trading?? (Originally Posted: 11/21/2013)
Hi guys, I was wondering if you need a S&T Background to work at treasury for somewhere like Google where they trade in-house? I'll be starting at a big 4 (audit) after this year and I am very interested in moving into this kind of job- long term.
Would I need a CFA?
Thanks for your help
I highly doubt a CFA would help.The internal treasury traders I know started where they are straight out of college, I'm afraid I don't totally know what to suggest to make the transition. Google's treasury might have some former S&Ters, but there are very few sophisticated treasuries outside of the tech and energy spaces.
Also, im from the UK not sure that makes much of a difference?
Also, how can I find which companies have sophisticated treasuries? I've heard its those with a lot of cash, not much debt and that are generally very big, but that doesn't really narrow it down much.
Why do you like the treasury function? Less intensity than Wall St? Lack of outside clients? Get to work at cool place? If you're interested in "less stressful" trading/money management then there are options outside of big companies treasuries.
You seem to know a bit about corporate treasury. Can you elaborate on your knowledge as well as the alternative options you mentioned in your post?
redacted
Corporate Treasury - Senior at a non target (Originally Posted: 02/19/2013)
I'm a senior at a non-target and I have an on campus interview for a rotational program at a F500. One of the departments for the rotations is corporate treasury. I was curious what is exactly that the corporate treasury department is responsible for and would this be applicable to a move to the buy side down the road. I am just looking for some basic info hear so any contribution helps. Thanks.
You might find this thread useful: http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/what-do-corporate-treasury-people…
Thanks that was definitely helpful.
Glad I could help, I remember there were a couple other threads I stumbled upon while interviewing for Corp Treasury also. I'm sure you could find it with a search or if you dig through a couple pages
Corp. Treasury (Originally Posted: 10/22/2008)
What is the pay and pay progression in Corp. Treasury? Also any info on hours, what functions of corp. treasury?
is this Morgan Stanley?
Yes
Treasury Analyst - Any ideas on what kind of career path treasury offers? (Originally Posted: 09/05/2013)
Any ideas on what kind of career path treasury offers? Is it just constrained in the Corporate Treasury of a bank/ large corporation or can you transfer to Trading as well?
There are many options, I would say it isn't constrained at all. In fact for many banks, treasury has trading desks (bonds, currencies etc.) within it.
Corporate Treasury - I got an interview (Originally Posted: 04/16/2008)
in "Treasury Offshore Funding"
What is this, I got an interview, but no job description, and I have no idea what Corporate Treasury is/does.
help please
I got this internship (bank of NY), probably going to take it, but have no idea what I'm going to be doing. The person made it seem like it was almost purely trading, which I didn't think corporate treasury was?
like he talked about how he has to monitor hong kong and make sure they get enough basis points with their trades.
Treasury (Originally Posted: 12/21/2007)
Hi there,
anyone? any info?
bump
too vague. it really depends on what you are doing in treasury.
what can one do in treasury? what are the main options?
Bank Treasury (Originally Posted: 07/14/2011)
I was wondering if anybody here has worked in a bank's treasury department or knows someone who does. From what I can gather from the description of JP Morgan's Chief Investment Office or Bank of America's global funding desk, traders on these desks hedge the bank's fx and interest rate exposure and are usually encouraged to take on prop risk.
This sounds exactly like what I want to be doing and I wanted to know if anyone knew the process for joining these groups and whether you see anybody with this kind of background on the buyside, specifically at macro funds. I'm starting a two-year Msc. in Finance this Fall btw.
Thanks for the help.
Anyone?
Also curious.
Congrats on MsF acceptance, this sounds like a good place to start if global macro is your end goal.
Thanks LIBOR, I'm trying to figure ways to get there.
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