Finally made £500k all-in in London but feel bored.
I’m currently in a unique credit role in London, earning £500k all-in, working 45-50 hours per week. Previously, I was at a shop where I worked significantly longer hours for less pay, so this feels like a win in terms of lifestyle and compensation.
The role itself is straightforward and stress-free—I have full autonomy, and the process is simple. However, this strategy is a minor focus for the firm, so my performance, hard work, or returns don’t really move the needle for anyone. Essentially, no one cares whether I go above and beyond, which leaves me feeling unstimulated and often bored. It’s all cash, no carry.
Now, I’m at a crossroads. Should I stick it out, coast, and collect the cheque, enjoying the lifestyle balance? Or should I consider looking for a more challenging role with greater upside potential in compensation, even though it’ll likely mean more hours and stress?
For context, I have close to 10 years of experience. If anyone had any datapoints at this level and if there is any significant upside or not.
What in credit specifically? Lmk when you leave so I can apply…
Bump this - please let us know !
State the role and your background please unc we are trying to be like you.
Hope you find some more satisfaction and fulfillment in your work
Ultimately it comes down to what you are chasing in life.
Do you love the grind and want to chase comp or a career? Do you prefer to spend time on hobbies / family? Are you chasing comp?
No-one can answer any of these questions but you. At least it seems like you have the time to undergo this phase of introspection.
I do enjoy credit work when people care on my convictions and work. If I am just churning out nonsense, what is the point?
Maybe, I’ll never get to £1m+ comp; be a partner; thought leader etc.. this also hurts.
Invest all your money in a separately managed account with me. I’ll put on triple leverage and short Tesla. You’ll never be bored again.
Here's the other side of the coin. I'm in my late 30's having worked in public market credit roles in London for most of my career. I've never cracked £300k all-in, have bounced around underperforming shops, worked for stingy owners, and have been lied to/mislead on comp expectations too many times to remember. At this point in my career I would kill for a package in the £500k range so be careful what you wish for.
Speaking to guys I know who have landed in decent HF credit seats here, total comp in the £600k-£800k is possible in good years. The question is whether you want the added pressure/stress to make additional comp that will be taxed at 45% anyway.....can't really see the upside from a risk/reward career wise.
Please take some time to write a post with advice on how to avoid exactly all of the unfortunate pitfalls you have come across - would be immensley useful to juniors.
You can't
Everything is iffy 15-25 years out
Not the OP, but from my experience, do a ton of diligence on the PM and the fund, especially if it's a smaller fund (some large SMs can be stingy on comp too, from my experience, but they usually have a good enough number). I didn't think of it because I joined straight out of school and didn't have good mentors to ask the right questions before taking the role. I had the misfortune of working for someone who underpaid/misled me on comp for a couple of years (even in a breakout year where I contributed to PNL meaningfully...), and I learned it the hard way. There are lots of jerks in the industry who just see you as a resource, but I've met (and worked with) plenty of nice people, too. Don't be afraid to ask the tough questions if/when you get an offer (or even during the process).
This is fair, but how do you feel motivated to work? At some point you just feel cba.
I'm your twin in NYC...public mkts, late 30s, can't crack 200-250k, litany of promises on carry/comp/fundraising/etc. Did the pods and PM blew up there.
My advice to youngins - if not on the right track in buyside by 30-31...get out. Very unlikely to land the one startup fund that has bns of AUM or find the one MM pod that gets good returns/doesn't blow up.
Man can you elaborate on how this is possible? $200-250k is literally fresh associates are getting paid. What kind of seat are you in?
Can you do an AMA? Would honestly be more interested in hearing your reflections on public markets over the nth instance of survivorship bias that populates these forums instead.
Jokes aside, maybe start exploring some different hobbies outside of work. You can achieve some fulfillment that way
Get a hobby my god. You’re making 500k and work 45hrs/week. You won the game. Enjoy the win. There are other ways to find fulfillment
Facts
I have been in a similar role for a few years. ~10 YOE, Tier 2 city, credit investing up and and balance sheet. $450K all cash, few million of carry at work. 40-45 hours a week with a few 60-70 thrown in there. Fairly flat organization. Mid 30s, have a family. The catch: isn't very stimulating, not very challenging, and we are a small part of the larger firm, sometimes treated as the "stepchild", hardly rewarded for outperforming vs status quo. Firm's full of good people. Enjoy a few time-consuming hobbies that fill out my time after work and family.
For my first 6 years at the firm, I struggled mightily and often about whether or not my learning experience was up to snuff and how awful my exit opps may be if I needed to leave, how would I compete with someone leaving HPS Apollo etc. At times I put so much weight into the worry that threw me into quite a bad mental place.
In the last 12 months I have interviewed a few spots and gotten positive feedback in each of them and turned all of them down. Ends up I was learning way more than I thought and every job opportunity isn't up against an army of god-tier candidates. And interviewing is an art.
I had an epiphany: For years, I had catastrophized the entire thing and made myself live through the agony without having any reason to. A JK Rowling quote summarizes it perfectly: worrying means you suffer twice.
Summary: Count your chickens carefully. It's easy to fluff up every opportunity out there. Make lists, weight your values. I had someone once tell me "if you go to work half of your days and are neutral/ happy to go there for 75% of your days, you've got it pretty good".
How are you mid 30s with 10 YOE? Nice post. Were your interviews in T1 cities with bigger firms? Get those offers? UW only roles in vanilla shops or opportunistic PC? What were they quoting for comp? I've also learned that your deal experience and level of autonomy will teach you the most vs being a lineman at a big firm - although if you get a good experience at a big firm, that is hard to beat given the branding.
Out of school I did turnaround consulting, followed by 3 years in HL's RX group. 7 years at my current shop. Never interviewed with a bigger firm (didn't have the desire to grind 70 hours any more after RX banking nearly killed me). Looked at a few distressed shops and opportunistic shops, but tbh was focused on culture vs strategy. Turned out to be the right call. My cash comp has always been mid but I have some decent economics.
Agreed re: pedigree, you're nothing but a cog in a wheel at a big shop until you're VP or above. But the name brand will get you an interview every time.
Do you think that special sits is also less stimulating/fascinating compared with buyout and other equity PE? Much appreciated!
I would coast bro and pick up hobbies or just enjoy life outside work
There is no perfect solution and no matter what you do there will be days where you will think you want one more than the other (comp vs wlb). I will say this - we forget how brutal it is to work long hours when we are not. But we also get used to the hours when grinding..
I’m in the same position as you kinda. I work from home two days a week, and the remaining 3 days are chill. I have two associates that do most of the work for me. I probably work 30-40hrs a week with extreme flexibility in the day whether I want to meet my wife or go to a museum or whatever (assuming no meetings obviously). Boss doesn’t care if I work remote abroad from time to time too but compliance is complicated sometimes with this. I joined the fund maybe less than a year out of banking and have 6YOE. Last 3 years comp has been $500k (was junior), $1.2m (had an excellent year), $700k (ok year). I’m in the US. Work in l/s equities but I don’t turnover names that much. I know what I want to own and my associates take the meetings and maintain the models to sanity check and justify what I own.
Not sure whether to chill out and clip this “ok” comp or go to a pod and eat what you kill. My thought process has been that it’s absolutely not worth it to move unless there’s material comp upside. Makes no sense to move for a 1-200k extra given the awesome lifestyle perks. Think I will stick around until I feel comfortable to jump or if I get a nice comp package from one of the pods.
Is there a risk the group will be shut down in the near future? Do you plan to have kids? If no and yes, strongly consider staying. If you add a family and decide to be involved the spare time will evaporate. You have enough money for private schools etc.
bro you could literally cash fund your own slum lord BTL property empire over a few years. i know property isn't the most efficient way of doing things but you could for example focus on providing under market price rents to at risk families etc, or stuff like that that is more fulfilling that just spunking money into charity which use most of it to pay their own wages.
London > NYC.
I don't like to say it publicly though. Don't want more people applying to London haha....
Didn’t realize people mid-career in NY can apply to London jobs. Wouldn’t you be ineligible based on work authorization
Yeah but I'm a hypocrite. I just spent Christmas in London. Just didn't like the fact it was filled with Euros who were non-British.
Awesome city. Had only heard about it through Fox News prior.
Save up for a few years then open a vineyard
Have you tried getting divorced? What people normally do and provides significant extra cognitive load.
500k isn’t what it used to be with inflation.
500k is the new 100k in London.
£500k is the new £45k
I would stay in touch with HHs and have conversations about what’s available in the market. You are in a very solid seat right now all things considered and you have the luxury of waiting for a truly great/rare role if it does present itself. It may come with more work/risk but the choice is yours to make at the time. You have decent negotiating leverage given you’re not desperate to move seats, those are how the best moves are done. I’m hoping I can do the same in a few years except my shop isn’t as relaxed as yours for sure
There is significant comp upside to those levels in credit particularly in higher yielding strategies such as opportunistic / structured / real estate mezz etc. I don’t think hours necessarily worse maybe up a bit but re stress - yes performance or deployment expectations go up the more you’re paid. How much you stress over that is more a personal thing.
Should be pretty easy to speak to get a sense of the comp and profile range by speaking to headhunters in whichever space you’re in and then devise a plan to get a larger role or move into higher yielding tangential strategy.
Is an all-in comp of 500k after ~10 years in the credit market generally realistic in London or is this amount only reserved for MD's at large MF's / AM's etc?
MDs would be $1M+. 10 yr Director range probably £400 - £750
Ignore title - I’m on the buy-side, VPs at my shop (usually 2-3 IB and 3-4y buy-side) make between £450-650k. Know it’s broadly in line with credit arms of MF as well
Depends on what you are doing in credit, but yes 10 yrs exp is c. 400-600+. Know some closer to 800 at this level
Obviously that’s an insane amount of money, but why is it that PD MDs make less than MDs in DCM/LevFin/RX IB? From what I’ve heard, the latter can make mid- to upper single-digit millions a year, whereas you guys mentioned private credit MDs make around £1–1.2m. Is IB becoming more lucrative on a senior levels?
delete
Top credit shops paying MDs about $1.2MM/yr base+bonus, thats not all cash anymore since so many are public with stock; carry can vary but the fair target is another $1.2MM of carry per year (of course depending on strategy it will take 7 years to a decade plus to realize carry dollars).
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