Entry-Level Luxury Watch
In the market for first gateway piece in luxury watches. Definitely hooked and have a few pieces in the $1k range but looking to start building out a more complete collection. Problem is the market is absolutely insane for a lot of brands. Hoping for some insight from other collectors or enthusiasts on some maybe high-quality but less "well-known" brands meaning I'm likely not going to go for hyped up watches that are super over-priced right now (Rolex). Currently thinking IWC, Grand Seiko, Breitling, maybe Omega. Looking into some even smaller brands as well like Nomos as well. Would appreciate any advice. Looking in the $5k to $10k range.
omega seamaster is what youre looking for
to add to this, i love it with the rubber strap
Don't ever buy with rubber strap. Buy on bracelet (it is the same price from an AD or Omega themselves) then buy rubber straps later.
My biggest regret was opting for rubber strap, finding out I paid the same price vs. a metal band, wanted a metal band later and found out it was ~$600 lol.
What is the current market like for a Seamaster? Are they easily obtainable at retail?
Seamasters are generally easy to get at msrp (and discounted on gray market).
Yeah, I went to a couple boutiques and each had them in stock around ~5.4k new with multiple colors, styles, etc. Can definitely get it cheaper gray market, but I didnt mind paying a little more and getting it new
What type of watch are you interested in? Dress watch? Any complication? Sports?
A few brands around the $5-10k range (outside of what you have named): glashutte, moser pioneer (a bit above), JLC, girard-perregaux, parmigiani (also a bit above your price)
Pretty open honestly though generally prefer sport and dive watches. Definitely not a dress watch would be my instinct unless I saw something that really caught my eye. The reverso is pretty awesome piece. Glashutte and JLC are brands I have looked at and like and will dig a bit deeper into those as well as the others you mentioned. In terms of complication I like chronographs but seems to me once you start getting into a lot of complications pretty quickly scales out of my price range.
For dive watches I think the glashutte seaQ or blancpain are both nice and attainable (no crazy wait or gray market pricing).
I have a Oris Aquis Date, solid divers watch. Great color combinations available with rubber straps if your into that as well. Usually run between 1.5k-2.5k
check out the omega aqua terras, can find them quite below market price on jomashop too
Definitely a used Glashutte Original given you mentioned it. I had a Lange 1 + GO Panomatic Lunar at the same time and preferred the GO. Was finishing as good as my Lange? No.
Was it better designed, and did the date window look way better? Yes.
BTW a custom watch from a guy like Benzinger is in the cards too at that price point...I wear mine more than some of my pieces that are 5x - 8x the price. Not to mention you get to support an awesome small business/watchmaker that will customize your watch at very reasonable rates VS some massive faceless corp. GO is owned by Swatch Group and Lange by Richemont. BTW Lange treated me like shit despite ~$100k+ in spend with them as well as some of my other collector friends. Have 0 interest in going Lange again.
That’s a great looking watch, definitely going to add to the list. Was initially leaning towards something in the GS Heritage but really like the Original
Did you suggest a used GO Panomatic Lunar because of OP’s budget? Or would you consider going used instead of new either way?
Reason I ask is because this isn’t the first time I’ve seen someone suggest going used for certain GO models. They seem to have terrific build quality and finish for the price, but perhaps they don’t have good resell values (hence maybe good deals to be had going used)?
it’s been awhile since I’ve bought a watch beyond $1.5K, but I was thinking I might look at GO next.
I also like the look of Dornblueth’s. They would fly within OP’s budget too.
Pre 2020 almost all watches were cheaper on the used market than new. Then the watch market got crazy and people started bidding up certain models in a way that makes little/no sense.
Now it is more mixed but still generally true (vast majority) that used market gives you a decent discount (think about it - if you can buy something brand new with no wait, why pay the same in the used market?). I wouldn’t say it has much to do with build quality, if anything there is some brand recognition and “popularity”. Even before it was easier to sell a pre owned Rolex since everyone knows the brand (as opposed to GO that is more for watch fans).
If you can find a trusted seller, go buy it used (preferably from an authorized retailer that also has the box and papers). Inspect the watch in person and make sure it is in good shape. But that’s the reason people suggest used, it’s just a better deal.
Custom watch is a great idea. There’s a dude named Ketelaars that is doing great stuff by hand in the 5-10k range. Be prepared to be patient though as he only cranks out a handful per year.
He's more than $10k now and yes his work has improved a lot!
Check out the GO SeaQ. Excellent watch and the bracelet is amazing (the same supplier as Lange). I have a PanoInverse and played around with a SeaQ when I went to my local boutique to order a bracelet. It felt like a more solid Sub. Blancpain is also great and has more dive watch history but ordering with a bracelet is expensive and it has no micro-adjustment. Blancpain dive watches are also generally either a bit too big or small. I would totally buy a SeaQ if I didn't have a few subs, GMTs, and a Blancpain Bathyscaphe already.
How would you compare a SeaQ to a Rolex sub or GMT? Never seen one in person.
I only played around with a SeaQ at a boutique and wasn't wearing a Rolex so didn't do a heads-up comparison. But it felt a tier above Rolex in terms of quality and finishing.
I wouldn't say Rolexes are overpriced right now. If you look at most stores, they are completely out of supply of any type of Rolex. Hence, the special ones, mainly the GMT Master 1/2, Batman, Pepsi, Coke, Smurf, Kermit, Hulk, Starbucks should all command significantly higher premiums. If you were waiting in line at the store, it could be a 5 year plus wait. Based on the illiquidity, a premium price is deserved.
The problem is that the gray market has created an artificial supply shortage (or at least that is what I’m seeing). When watches become speculative investments the volatility of the price gets much higher (on the ups and downs). It is a problem when you can find 1500+ GMT’s for sale on used watch sites (not to mention inventory that they may be holding on to and not listing) but not a single one in store. If the hype comes down, the prices will too (obvious I know) and quickly.
Rolexs on the grey market are 100% overpriced for the make and quality of the watches. People spending upwards of $20k that could be spent on better built brands. its insanity but makes sense given all the hypebeasts around Rolex.
Surprised more people haven’t highlighted Grand Seiko. I have a SBGA413 and if i were to have one do it all watch for daily wear, it would any of the GS sport models.
I personally think GS’s current strategy of releasing too many similar models is diluting the value of brand but objectively, it’s hard to argue against the value you get: impeccable finishing, some of the best dial designs in the business, and that spring drive sweep, all for under 10k. Just find one dial design that speaks to you.
Else a Seamaster would be fit that bill as well, with a more recognizable brand, extreme technical proficiency with the newer calibers albeit in a less interesting design (vs GS IMO). I personally went with a Speedmaster when trying all the Omega offerings, but it’s a less practical watch (lack of date, manual winding) and is more of a emotional purchase for me.
JLC reverso is def worth a mention if the design works for you cause well it’s JLC
Love my Reverso and given the brand history, design, workmanship -- it's actually pretty reasonably priced. You can also just walk into a store and immediately walk out with exactly what you want, they don't play dumb games with limiting supply like Rolex does.
An Omega Speedmaster is what you want.
If you want to be fancy, a Cartier Roadster
You boys sure have a lot of fun talking about your jewelry
Imagine being this much of a wet blanket
Imagine feeling the need to defend a bunch of guys getting together and talking about their jewelry because it inflates their ego…
A more moderate priced watch that looks great (some are more expensive than others in their line) would be Baume & Mercier, IMO, but unpopular opinion - save your money in your early years to take full advantage of compounding and work towards something better. No ones gonna give a second glance at your watch. The people around you know what you make as an analyst or associate and don't really care for the people who walk around trying to flex their brands. To be clear if you decide to wear a watch, ofc something above a casio from 1995, but it doesn't have to cost you 5k. There are plenty of sleek looking watches at a reasonable price
B&M Classima is highly underrated and aesthetic imo, but for the price tag I´d go with a Muehle Teutonia IV Lunar Calendar. Drop dead gorgeous, still a tool watch, and extremely reasonable price tag.
Rolex Cellini if you like dress watches. Would probably have to be used though. Rolex in general is hyped up like you said, but this specific model is somewhat of an exception and is their least popular model.
Any recommendations for a starter watch around like 1k? Kind of like brown band / gold face aesthetic
For a solid mechanical watch around that price range I'd look at Hamilton, they make some good watches without breaking the bank. Rado and Nomos also make great watches, closer to the $2-3k range but you can find examples under that.
Not sure about the gold dial (face) piece, but you can consider looking at Stowa which can start at (or just fly under) the $1K range.
https://www.stowa.de/en/
Sinn 556, most Hamiltons and you could also look at decent micro-brands like Baltic.
Tudor Black Bay 58 is a nice entry level diver IMO
Second this, love my BB58. Grand Seiko SBNG003 is a good one as well.
Burberry has some good pieces at ~1k. Also the Tag Carrera Calibre 01 is great, but will run you ~$6k.
I bought an Omega Seamaster Aqua Terra "worldtimer" (metal bracelet) to celebrate earning my MBA and have been very happy with it. Omega has strong brand presence, the worldtimer is one of my favorite complications, and it is considered by a variety of "watch commentators" as a good buy for the around 10k mark. It is on the larger side but still fits under a cuff and is striking to look at. If you find complications as the most appealing aspect of a watch as you begin to build your "collecting style," I would seriously recommend it.
Thats a sweet (and unique) looking watch imo
Go with an Omega Seamaster, it's the perfect entry level luxury watch in my opinion (it was my first one too). If you want something a bit more dressy, you can look at the Aquaterra too.
Grand Seiko Heritage - both SD and Quartz are bangers, and with a bit of luck, you can find an honest to God SBGA211 on the Japanese (!) grey market for like 4500 bucks. If that´s not a bargain, I don´t know what is.
When I was in your position, I ended up buying a 1969 Omega Speedmaster for less than $5k. Unfortunately the price of that watch in that year has skyrocketed, but the Speedmaster itself remains one of the best value buys available (personally like the classic aesthetic and story behind the watch more than the Seamaster). Another alternative, if you are looking for a dive watch, is the Tudor Black Bay 58. This watch flies under the radar, and is a fantastic buy! If you aren't looking to spend $8k+ on a Rolex, at least you can get a quality sub in your price range with the Tudor. You mentioned Nomos - completely different look and feel, but fantastic brand nonetheless. If you like modern, minimalist, then it's hard to beat. If you like more of a classic look, I would highly recommend looking at a Rolex Day Date or Datejust. Prices have steadily moved up, but they still remain the most affordable Rolex option...
The vintage Omegas can be a great buy. I have an old Seamaster from the 60s that belonged to a family member. It's small by modern standards (34mm) but I love wearing it and you can get good examples on Chrono24 for $2k or so. Also, the movements are workhorses and easy for technicians to work with.
Everyone is recommending a Seamaster, if you want something really off the beaten trail but has serious horology chops, go with a Zenith El-Primero. Great chronograph, watch nerds will respect it, it flies under the radar, lots of designs to chose from. I personally have one from the Heritage collection, so dressier, but they're originally a sports watch. Fun fact, the El-Primero movement actually powered the Daytona starting in 1988 before they made their own in-house automatic chronograph movement.
Dont mention Zenith. I am seriously hopping this brand remains under the radar and doesnt get impacted by all absurd hype thats happened to Rolex. As of now the only people who appreciate or know of Zenith are folks who actually pay attention to horology/watches beyond instagram.
Zenith has A-A-ron Rodgers as a spokesperson. I wouldn't exactly call it under the radar.
I was incredibly happy with my first purchase of a Grand Seiko Spring Drive. Got it for about $4k USD, wish I had gotten the sapphire case back instead of not. You can honestly stare at the textured dial all day, absolutely stunning. Only gripes are the fairly expensive maintnence fees since its a specialized movement and the straps are a weird size so if you wanna buy more straps, its a little harder to find good ones.
Tudor BB58. I bought the silver with blue dial as my first watch and it’s the best purchase i’ve ever made.
This is a great option. Here’s one I flipped recently.
Watches that I would be looking at in this price range include:
Sports watches:
Chronographs (I personally avoid Valjoux 7750-based watches that are generally thick)
Dive Watches
Dress Watches
Some thoughts... Assuming you're looking at new and used (obviously, extra diligence is needed with the latter).
- Grand Seiko (Snowflake especially, but any Spring Drive). I personally love this make. The horology is sound--with some new innovative twists--and the quality of the craftsmanship and materials are top-tier. Considering all this, it may be the best value for the price
- JLC: I'm a sucker for the Reverso. Sure it's an acquired taste and JLC can lose its value pretty quickly, but they are just so classic. You can find them used for 8-10k for one you'd actually like to wear
- Vacheron Constantin Gen 1 Overseas: You can find this for 8-10k used. It's the first edition so, it'll have a bit of a vintage feel, but it is very hard to go wrong with VC. It's sporty looking, can be worn with a suit, and those interested in horology will instantly recognize it
- Zenith: The El Primero is a fantastic watch. The 'look' isn't for everyone, but this is a top-tier expression from a solid company. Chronomaster Sport is also very interesting
- Blancpain Villeret Ultraslim: It is a beautiful dress watch. Blancpain literally translates to 'white bread' and the make is anything but. I would note, however, that watch repair/maintenance can only be done by Blancpain as the movement is very bespoke. Most other places won't touch it. Thus, it can get expensive
- IWC: Look they are popular and make nice-looking watches, but--IMO--other than the Big Pilot, the make doesn't really speak to me. It's a lot like buying a BMW. Will you be happy? Yes. Is it quality? Sure. Is it unique and will it impress you each time when you put it on? I don't know
- Nomos: I can't say enough good things about Nomos. The Germans are doing the most interesting stuff in horology today, IMO. Followed very closely by the Japanese
- Piaget: A lot of people snub their nose at Piaget and sure it's not the best watch out there, but--IMO the Polo Automatic 42mm Ref. No. G0A41003 is pretty cool and trendy without losing a classic feel
- Omega: It's popular for a reason. Can't go wrong with a Speedmaster or a Seamaster. You could easily get a new 2021 Seamaster for under 10k
Watches to Stay Away from IMO
- Hublot: Very loud, very expensive, not much under the hood
- Panerai: I have no problem with Panerai, they just aren't that interesting and really limited to casual wear (e.g., never seen one of their core line look good with a suit)
- Ulysse Nardin: Expensive and just really busy dials without amazing movement to back it up, IMO
- Any designer watch (e.g., Gucci, Hermes, Montblanc): I think you know why
Solid insights, you have great taste.
A couple of points though-
-Ulysse Nardin can be had for bargains on the secondary market and the calibers are no worse than IWC. The designs are unique, albeit busy depending on the model. Some of them are really interesting.
-Montblanc isn’t so bad. Never buy at retail but on the grey market they offer a reasonable value proposition. Collector circles generally think they’re alright for the money.
Ulysse Nardin definitely makes some really great watches and their new stuff is mostly, if not all, with in-house movements. One of the best bang for buck high-end brands and certainly better than IWC (except maybe in styling). It may become even better deals as they are/were hugely popular in Russia.
Recommend the Dual Time. It has one of the best implemented GMT functions in the business and styling is great (not too busy).
I have a Seamaster 2220.80 that I am looking to sell. PM me if interested.
I’m selling a Grand Seiko GMT at 4.75k, feel free to get in touch dawg. Pic attached for reference. I flip watches as a fun side hustle haha.
which watches do you think are gonna trend up?
Honestly no clue. My hope is that dress watches will make a comeback. I also hope that smaller case sizes (34-38mm) will become more popular. Currently everyone just wears over sized sport watches that hang over their wrists and look ridiculous.
Number one thing you can do is figure out your wrist size and then go from there. You’ll want to pay attention to case diameter as well as lug to lug length of the watch. There are many great watches listed here but size is so important with watches.
This x1000. How it fits you is so important. Don't want a big clunker if you have a small wrist or the opposite
Highly recommend either the GS SBGA415 or SBGA211. Both are amazing pieces. You’ll definitely be able to find one at a local AD. Also the spring drive movement is probably one of the coolest movements. It’s an instant conversation starter with any other watch nerd. There’s definitely other choices like an aqua terra, Seamaster, moonwatch, Tudor chrono. I would even look into the Zenith Chronomaster Sport or chronomaster original. Both are great pieces
is there anybody who thinks that owning a watch now is silly? everybody has phones that show time. why would you want an inconvenience of having something on your wrist?
its jewelry dont over think it
Not everything's about functionality. A Toyota and a Ferrari both take you from point A to B, but which one would you rather have?
both Toyota and Ferrari serve some purpose - to transport you, so it makes sense to buy them, and based on your budget you can choose a more expensive option. watch doesn't serve much purpose - you already know the time with your phone.
I'm more of a dress watch person but I love my JLC Master Ultra-thin and I just bought a Carl Bucherer Manero Moonphase and its really nice.
If you want a dive/sports watch you can't go wrong with a seamaster
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