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There is a reason that you can’t find any information on this and I think it’s a good idea for you to consider why that is.
Would working at baupost be frowned upon if you try to move to point72/citadel? Less prestigious/riding value factor instead of picking stocks
You cannot be serious with this comment
Pretty wild how quickly "prestige" changes in the mindset of young financial hardos - we keep getting questions like "Lone Pine vs. Point 72" and "would you still work at Tiger Global".
Now, Baupost is just the place to refine your training after undegrad before you step up to the big leagues at Point 72's experienced academy program, only it may "taint" you so much that you wouldn't get a spot.
Baupost only hires the chaddest BX/APO/prep school/Harvard blue bloods with immaculate pedigree, so let us know how that goes! Realistically, Baupost investing is quite different than Citadel so they would probably be confused as to why you wanted to switch.
Its funny to me that citadel/p72 etc even have the audacity to consider what they do as "investing" . Calling quarters is apparently anything but investing and comparing a top fund like baupost with pod shops is just asinine
It's just the tragic state that pod shops have the budget to market the crap out of themselves in front of school kids. And Baupost just sources from the usual paths.
Pod shops have "brand recognition" also because they churn and burn folks so much, so there is always need to recruit. How often does Baupost hire?
The gap between Baupost and P72/Citadel is ~ equal to the gap between Lower Middle Market PE and BX/Apollo…and P72/Citadel aren’t BX/Apollo in this case.
You’re saying p72/c is more like Blackstone and baupost more like MMpe?
Can you not read?
In what world is baupost low prestige?
Deep value SM fund. You’re insane. Might be the most respected position to be in in investing.
You should just quit with a question like this seriously crossing your mind.
Troll comment lol. Ragebait and yall fell for it
Lol at everyone in this thread shitting on p72/citadel, when there are numerous PMs at both firms that are likely richer than everyone at baupost except for seth. But...prestige! Yea, it's real prestigious to generate something like 3%-5% a year for the past 10 years like baupost has
Yup - I think the question was more would p72 frown on baupost analyst looking to transition bc of inability to pick stock/invest outside of beta
Yup. If you generate 3-5% returns while you're at baupost you're an absolute chad but if u generate similar returns at citadel/p72, you're a beta
Since this thread mostly went to shit a semi-real answer is that they do hire out of the usual pathways. I also think that they take some very elite interns- I heard they took a Girls Who Invest intern last summer, probably out of an Ivy, but likely don't they rehire undergrads. Their FT seats are probably among the most coveted and competitive in the industry so for most people on here, it would be like winning the lottery
Yep. Seth has reiterated multiple times in interviews that he won't hire undergrads. He 'doesn't have the capacity to train them' and he doesn't want 'people without the background to know what to look for' (in his words). He loves the 2 + 2
I don’t know if I’d say they’re the most competitive seats out there. If you go on LinkedIn and look at their current analysts, some of them have impressive backgrounds, but some of them don’t really. They hired a kid directly from BX Tac Opps, which isn’t exactly a cream of the crop group (even though it’s BX). You would think if they were really the single most competitive seats, they would all be ex-PJT/GS and MF PE people
I don’t hold the tac opps thing against them. Recent tac opps exits have been Viking, coatue, sequoia, etc
whats more telling imo are the recent analyst/principal departures from Baupost: looking on LinkedIn, to addition/soroban/long pond/some no name shops. If they’re so great, why’re so many ppl looking to leave?
Single Manager $5bn+ firms are the cream of the crop for finance.
(1) The money is good. Sure the firm can be multistrat, but above all the BX/KKR MF PE, GS, MS IB, is the promised land of landing a job at one of these firms. Citadel is an incredible firm, an incredible asset manager, but not necessarily the best place to work. They make money for LP's but your shot at making money isn't great. At a single manager, if you become a partner in 8-15 years, it's a totally different trajectory. Maybe the only way to really start your own $1bn+ fund and be your own boss.
(2) The intellectual breadth of SM Hedge Funds is unlike anything else. Good shops that are 25 years running aren't really trying to find another CS/Excel monkey, they're looking for intellectual complexity and *sort of* the ability to see into the future. The dynamic emerges because if it's 10 partners running $10bn dollars, there's a lot fewer people to point at. You lose money in a BX fund as an LP and maybe you talk to Jon Gray but the institution is so bureaucratic that assigning blame is tough. LP's will move from firm to firm but they ultimately want a long term partner they can trust. Some of these huge funds like Baupost or TCI are on a different tier in the LP mind. They don't make the same return every year but they are less likely to blow up. You're not telling me Citadel made 30%+ last year and these long shops could be down 10-20%+ and Citadel isn't running some enormous risk with quantitative risk models. There isn't really a free lunch in markets.
(3) Most of the firms like Baupost get 0 press. It's not on the Dalio/Griffin tier, but among investors Seth Klarman or Andrew Spokes or Hillhouse or Baker Brothers are cream of the crop. Most people on this forum and who are the sweaty IB/Consulting type will probably not thrive in an environment where the conversation gets really broad. Smartest people that I know at SM funds are multidisciplinary and studied other things than business in college. Harvard MD's who now do drug discovery HC investing or history majors who could just call the zeitgeist and invest on it. There's some sweatiness, but I'd argue it's intellectually more stimulating than most other types of investing. Basically, you have to get plugged into the hedgefund network for these to actually be options anytime early in career.
TL;DR: These are the best jobs in finance, but you've got to be well-connected and brilliant. The colleagues are on a different level of intellectual cross-sectional area.
You spend too much time here. It’s so sad how even after seeing these funds -50 / 60, people still wanna work there, despite seeing how stupid and basic the levered long model is.
You don’t work in the industry so I don’t expect you to know / realize, but working for a $5bn fund that was down 60 is no longer a creme of the crop seat. News flash: if you’re not good at TG / LP / D1, you won’t be good at Citadel. This business doesn’t take bad public mkts investors. PE does, growth does, private credit does. Not equities. Now let’s get 1 thing straight — if you’re good (meaning consistent PnL / alpha generator — capable of putting up $50m+ of PnL) you will make more at Citadel than probably any SM because there’s a formulaic payout (meaning you know EXACTLY what you’ll be paid), and SMs can’t afford to pay you 15 - 20% of your PnL — they just don’t have pass through economics. Don’t believe me? I know young PMs that made $30-50m last year while their SM counterparts made $1m. SMs just aren’t structured for employees to even have a chance to make $50m, but pods are. Again it comes down to “are you good”. If you are, take the pod because Ken will pay you properly for your service. Then the real wealth creation starts when you spin out, he seeds you (another huge adv vs spinning out of some SM), you raise $1bn and you crush it.
If by intellectual breadth you mean calling mgmt once a q, having 100 line models, and owning 80 days volume, sure! And if you’re not good at pod shop, you get cut yes. If you’re not good at SM, you also get cut / pushed out, but it’s delayed. I’m not sure what you’re trying to get at
Guys — MM model is taking share from SMs and we’re at a really interesting inflection point right now. I’m not sure why you wouldn’t want to be on the winning team. A MM is the purest form of meritocracy I can possibly think of. I know PMs that are late 20s and I just don’t think that’s reasonable in SM land. However, there are maybe 5-10 multi strat SMs (that don’t run the levered long model) that are incredible funds (both product / performance wise and comp / seat wise): Viking, Elliott, Farallon etc. But guys returns / model / comp don’t lie for themselves…be on the winning team lol.
I think you are underestimating how easy it is to become a PM at an MM and also underestimating how quickly/easily you can get fired. They are actually quite different stylistically as well and you can definitely be good at one and not at the other.
If you have that mindset then just don't work in this business. Go work for a LO or PE. That mindset doesn't work here. If you don't think you'll make PM at MM why on earth would Chase Coleman magically make you a partner
Every single outcome you hear ONLY applies to GOOD PMs / senior analysts / partners. No one is paid to lose money or put up mid PnL…
This is dumb man. It's a requirement for a good investor to be risk-aware, especially when it comes to your career because you can't diversify that risk away.
Let's say you are a great investor and you can generate 15% alpha 20% of the time, 5% alpha 60% of the time and -5% alpha 20% of the time due to bad luck on factor rotations or whatever. So your expected alpha is 5%.
After 10 years at a single manager, you reach your number and retire. Maybe you get fired for 3 consecutive years of negative alpha which would happen less than 10% of the time
At a MM, you get fired for -5% alpha. If you don't get fired, you're probably better off than the guy at the SM but the chances of not getting fired is (1-.2)^10 = 10%
Probably won't get any meaningful and accurate data form this thread, but is there any idea on how comp looks like at Baupost at the analyst level?
It's referred to as the most coveted position in investing so I'm genuinely curious how well they comp their people.
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