Lone Pine or Point72?
Would you guys take an offer from Lone Pine or Point72 if u got to choose? Both for investment roles
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Lone Pine, AUM/head is higher and compensation increases exponentially the longer you stay at the firm, but that's not the only reason. The connections you make at Lone Pine are worth it, historically folk going out of lone pine have raised at least $500M year one. Mala raised more than a billion recently. Since getting in itself is a lot harder, after you are in, you'll be able to move up really quick, a lot of senior folk at LP either go off to start their own fund or go into Corp Finance or other HFs namely Tiger Cubs. But then again, did you get an offer from both? Personally LP because it's a SM, I am biased towards SMs than MMs.
Mala raising $2B for her debut fund is a complete outlier. She was one of the longest tenured investors at Lone Pine before striking out on her own and the average IP from Lone Pine has not done nearly as well. You can do a quick LinkedIn search of former LP folks striking out on their own. Maybe it’s just the type of investing, but ex-Viking employees have done far better on their own.
True, but if you've known Mala long enough, she could've raised a lot more money if she wanted to. I agree with your point about LP folk not standing out as much as Viking's, but P72 is no longer SAC, so compared to them yeah. It should also be noted that most people are reluctant to put money in new funds that spun off from SMs if they want to do the same strategy as their predecessor, why not just put the money there they ask. This is one of the reasons why MM L/S spinoffs have historically raised more as startup funds than SM spin offs.
AUM/head doesn't really mean anything when one is a SM and the oter is an MM...
but yeah lone pine wins here.
lol OP got an offer from p72 and trying to tell if his/her offer is as good as lone pine. It isn’t ..
Fake
Lone Pine people don't go on WSO.
this is the same as arguing between Ferrari LaFerrari and a Ferrari 488. Both great offers, but one (Lone Pine) is literally possibly the best job in the entire world.
Troll post
Lone pine easily. Good senior analysts there clip 20-30 million dollars like coupon. At point 72 you'll be lucky to break 7 figures
This is so false. Sr analysts at LP aren’t making 20-30m with these shit L5Y returns. No way. It’s not as bad as tiger but like, there’s just no way you can expect to join as an analyst this year and make big bonus over next 5 years. That watermark too high.
I contrast that with P72, a MM that’s done really well and pretty much hasn’t lost money yet. As a PM or analyst with a sleeve there, your payout is stated in a contract (vs completely up to Craver / Mandel at LP). If you’re a good PM, all else equal (ie same pnl generated at citadel / MLP / P72, you’ll make more at those funds than LP). Tiger cubs just don’t have those pass thru economics and can’t pay PMs 20% of pnl.
The benefit of LP is you can be a partner and get piece of GP / get cut of mgmt fee, then in big year you’ll get paid really well, and that’s a super stable seat. The downside is when there’s a GP commit / deferred comp from said massive payouts, and then cycle turns and LP left holding shitty biotech stocks and you lose half ur net worth in a year
And yeah prestige. But wake up guys. The tiger cub mafia is a thing of the past (except Viking, and maybe LP). But you just can’t have tiger and d1 and whoever else down 50 and think they’re top funds. And the argument can’t really be “well I might blow up in a pod bc I’m not good at what I do so I’m scared”, bc tiger cubs aren’t hiring bad investors — if you’re not good then those funds just aren’t gonna hire you in the first place so it’s a stupid argument
There were senior analysts at lone pine that have left with 100m+ net worth after working there for 5-10 years. They haven't been doing too hot for the last couple of years but that doesn't mean the performing analysts weren't getting paid. No sane person would ever choose point72 over LP not because that's a bad seat or anything but the rewards if you're good are truly astronomical at one vs the other
Lone Pine got ravaged in ‘22.
I also don’t get the sudden hard on for Lone Pine — I mean what, are they going FO so ppl feel the need to talk them up on here? It’s really weird
As mentioned much better comparison for LP senior analyst is young - late 20s/early 30s - Point72 PM. Payout likely similar between both positions, if not higher at Point72 because you are fully responsible for your book's p&l. No way on 20-30m senior analyst comp at LP/Viking with current HWM. Even Wonders wasn't pulling that at Viking lol. At either place outstanding performers will have the eventual ability to raise/spinout their own funds. Plotkin, Rosen, etc. at P72/SAC. Mala at LP is outlier. Wonders at Viking more representative of typical raise, but even his was insane considering his age.
Key word here is performance. Just because of your seat at LP/Viking doesn't mean you can easily raise a 0.5-1b fund *and* then perform well in early years of fund's life.
viking shouldn't be grouped together with LP. ones HF was -2.4% for 2022, the other was -36%.
Point taken. But performance hasn't been exceptionally hot on Viking's public side last 2 anyways. L/S -4.5% in 2021 while LO was up 8% I believe. -2.4% in 2022. Those aren't numbers that are resulting in senior analysts getting 20-30m pay days. Now consider similar top SM seats at Third Point, D1, Tiger Global, Coatue long only, etc that were down 25-30%+ last year.
Would argue that a senior analyst at any of the referenced funds is quite similar. Seats at any incl. a PM seat at Citadel/Point72/Millennium would set a top performer up quite well from a comp perspective.
This seems about right. People massively exaggerate how much those at even elite hedge funds make. Don't get me wrong; they do very well for themselves, but consistently making 8-figures/year is VERY rare. I have mutual friends with Wonders (the guy is one of the smartest minds in finance right now), and they think he probably made $5-$10M/year at Viking. And he was a legendary performer there.
Do you know how voyager performed in 2022? With those top holdings, can't have done well, but his AUM (RAUM) seems to have gone up from launch
I don't think anyone can hide behind "prestige" of their fund as well as they used to. And that was the entire appeal of working at a place like Lone Pine.
I think the biggest attractiveness of LP is the stability of the seat on a risk adjusted basis. Last year was a great example of this. They had an awful year from a performance standpoint, but limited turnover whereas the average PM at a MM would get canned super quickly. It’s also just a better seat from a work life balance standpoint and there are only a few spots vs. the hundreds of pod PMs that jump around from Point72 to Citadel to Balyasny to eventually out of the industry. The longevity of the LP seat allows you to do better in the long run even if performance is subpar as you’ll still get the management fee. You have to remember, the biggest beneficiary of the MM returns and model isn’t the PM or analyst in a random industrials or financials pod, it’s Ken Griffin or Steve Cohen….
No point in LP getting rid of people when they can pay them from 1-2% AUM fee. Means Mandel just takes pay cut and retains talent. Also, where is one leaving to from LP? Viking? Tiger Global? Similar AUM shrinkage and HWM issues at LP peers. Taking a huge pay cut to go corpdev? Uncertain of WLB specifics but assuming a senior analyst at LP is putting in comparable hours to perform and prove themself.
Additionally, think overall PM retention rate much higher at Point72 (less so Citadel) than you are envisioning. Your senior analyst LP - Point72 PM equivalent is going to be a very above average PM. Would argue that the better "long run" play is a seat where you learn most about running a book and have the best ability to launch/spinoff your own fund and then perform. At the end of the day, real money is only coming from having your name on the door like Mandel/Cohen/Griffin.
not sure LP is as stable as stated - checking linkedin, there was some turn in the junior ranks this year - altho not sure whether voluntary or involuntary
Haha, imagine being an LP of LP .... what do they call themselves? The L-PoLPs maybe ..
Dude this question is like asking who would you date - Anya Taylor Joy or Scarlett Johansson. You ain't gonna find yourself in this situation, so just keep your head down and focus on the process and find the best girl/ fund you can get. These sort of thought experiments are fun with the boys at Spoons, but at the end of the day it's a waste of time and might even slowly degrade yourself into an incel
There’s a clear answer to your question thooo
Getting offers from P72/Citadel etc is not an unrealistic goal tbh
lone pine probably is
What on earth….who is asking this Q, SAC himself? LP. LP all day and twice sunsays
Would you, then, rather take an offer from Lone Pine or an offer from Bridgewater? Both for investment roles
bump
Point72 obviously because I have a fetish of being abused
Troll post
Bump. Funny ppl hated on the nuanced answers when anyone would clearly choose P72 now.
both suck
Citadel or bust sadly
Oh so I can get railed and pegged by the drawdowns
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