Accept mid-tier BB Offer or continue recruiting?
I have an offer from Credit Suisse IBD for next summer but heard that they have been struggling in recent years. Should I accept this offer or continue recruiting at GS/MS/JPM/BofA and the rest of the EBs still interviewing? I go to a target and have relevant experience but I have no "confirmed" opportunities at any of those firms aside from Hirevues and shit. I'm worried about walking away from an offer in hand but I'm also worried that I'm shooting myself in the foot by settling for a mediocre offer. What do you guys suggest I do?
First Credit Suisse is not a bad shop. You're still in better hands than DB or HSBC. If anything, just accept it and renege later. You won't be the first one, and you won't be the last.
Lol Credit Suisse is "bad." What an asshole
Sorry I was being an asshole CS is obviously still very good I was just echoing what I had heard from others. My bad.
If you really want to keep recruiting id accept then renege later, but I would not risk rejecting an offer, especially this late, unless you are absolutely certain you can secure another offer. Considering you only got CS at this point, im assuming you didnt do well during the spring EB recruitment, so I wouldnt be too picky
makes sense. Is reneging ok?? I thought its frowned upon and can lead to offers being rescinded at both places. How do people do this without getting caught?
Do not renege, it is not worth it. There is a small but real chance you could get caught, and people get screwed over because of it. The street is a lot smaller than you think and it only takes one person to care enough to screw you over. It is a bad faith agreement and you will look bad
Definitely worth it. Your first job can make a big difference career trajectory. I knew a couple people older than me who reneged for top BBs/EBs and now theyre doing very well. Make sure to talk to your connections from both firms about the situation so you know how to navigate the process, as many firms will not really care. Regardless, avoid telling many people or putting it on social media like LinkedIn. If you dont have many connections at the new firm I'd be more wary though
These are the banks I would take over CS: GS, MS, JPM, EVR, CVP, PJT, LAZ, PWP, MOE. That’s it. BOFA is the same tier. Considering that about half of the “better” banks are done, I would just take the offer. Not worth it imo
In general id agree with this, except for BBs it can vary bc of group placement. If you have connections to a top group is can make a difference
...////
>citi
bruh
Congrats on your Citi internship
Credit Suisse is a great bank, and is a great springboard for better opportunities. I was an analyst at CS and then worked at a MF PE firm (and I didn't come from FSG), about to attend HBS / GSB, so could be a bit biased. CS is losing market share in terms of M&A, but if you look at the league tables it is consistently in the top 6-7 in the US(GS, JPM, BAML, MS, Citi generally above, and CS is generally on par with Barclays / Evercore. Globally, CS is even stronger). CS runs leaner than BAML, Citi, and Barclays, the other banks in its "tier," but is obviously bigger than the boutique banks. CS has been losing market share in M&A, but reputation tends to take a long time to catch up to league tables (if we reputation were purely based on dealflow then BAML / Citi have generally been above MS the last few years). CS also runs leaner and is a market leader in leveraged finance, and so in terms of PE exits probably is stronger than BAML / Citi / Barclays, though my evidence is anecdotal. Lastly, you will be given plenty of live deals to work on if you get a return offer at CS, and won't be complaining about the relative lack dealflow then.
In terms of culture, CS is generally a bit frattier and more collegial than other banks (have ample evidence, attended a target school and have friends across the street), perhaps less so than a few banks. It is group dependent but i think most groups have a strong "culture," meaning relatively less facetime and more camraderie among analysts. In terms of exits, CS is a strong brand but it will generally depend on group. FSG is the strongest for exits, and M&A is close in terms of exits. LevFin, TMT, Industrials are all strong too. I think CS is a little less "equitable" in terms of the relative strength of groups, meaning that the weaker groups are a lot weaker relative to the stronger groups in terms of exits. Barclays and BAML generally have stronger exits across the board (Barclays does M&A in house so none of their groups are especially weak), but if you are in a stronger coverage group, LevFin, or M&A at CS you will be fine.
Thank you this was really helpful! I am pretty worried about the discrepancy in the quality of groups at CS. How hard do you think it is to get into a top group like the ones you mentioned? I assume that everyone tries to get into those during group placement since the strength of groups is less equitable right?
It depends. Certain schools place very well into certain groups (UVA and FSG, Yale and M&A / Industrials, Princeton and TMT / FSG, Chicago and M&A, etc.) and if you go to one of those target schools you will have a fairly good shot at these groups. If not, it depends. FSG is almost definitely the most sought after group because of its relatively lax lifestyle and good exits (although I will say exits have been weaker in recent years). TMT, M&A and industrials are large teams that both place well and are relatively easier to get into because of the large headcount and because 90% of ppl will put sponsors first.
One thing to note is, if you are interested in exits, you can bucket groups across the street in terms of how much they help you. There are the absolutely elite groups, like MS M&A or PJT RSSG, which are a big advantage in recruiting for buyside roles. Then there are most banking groups, which are "good enough" for any firm on the street but don't help or hurt you (except maybe not good enough for Blackstone). Then there are groups like ECM and Syndicate which will almost never place analysts into buyside PE roles. With the possible exception of sponsors (which hasn't been crushing placements recently either, I'd argue M&A has done better) all groups at CS are within that second bucket. All groups across BAML, Barclays, CS, and Citi are probably in this bucket, along with numerous groups at GS, MS, and JPM. Your offer will depend on the strength of your candidacy: can you impress headhunters, did you go to a good school/ get a good GPA / get a good SAT (yes, they matter), do you have connections with certain firms, can you model well enough for an interview, and can you talk about your deal experience in a thoughtful manner.
If you are in a solid group at CS, you can go to a MF. Off the top of my head, in the last few years, between Sponsors, M&A, Industrials, and TMT, every major MF (KKR, BX, Carlyle, TPG, Apollo, Warburg, Bain Capital, H&F) has representation from CS. But remember that it is more about you, less about your group
MS has been at the top of M&A league tables for the past few years i.e. Better deal flow than either BAML or Citi
Your point about reputation taking time to catch up to league tables stands, but is just plain wrong in the context of MS.
Not an unfair point, but I was an analyst a few years ago when MS was going through a rough patch and BAML and Citi (especially BAML under Meissner) was going through a particularly strong period. Pretty sure all my points about groups, CS, and PE recruiting in general were accurate, but if anyone has a dispute feel free to let me know
Another prime example why prestige whoring on this site is toxic.
This person doesn’t deserve the offer.
Who says this person didn’t bust their ass for the past few years? Yeah they might be a bit insecure with the offer, but saying they don’t deserve it is kinda a dick move.
Ok I confess that my question was pretty bad and insensitive but wtf does that have to do with whether or not I deserve the offer?
Bruh what's wrong with you CS is a top shop that places as well if not better than BofA and only certain group like GS TMT, MS M&A are that much better. Not worth the risk
BRUH
Commented this elsewhere, but here it is again:
Nobody else can really tell you what to do here because the risk/reward of walking away from an offer without another in hand is a very personal calculation. There are some kids for whom the risk would be negligible -- maybe their dad works at one of those other banks or maybe they're just an animal with a 4.0 from a target and a sophomore summer at a BB that gets everything they interview for and the odds they go 0/6 on the banks they really want is minuscule. You might be one of those kids. Or you might be someone that fell ass backwards into a really good offer at CS and the risk is massive that you wind up with nothing, let alone a mid tier BB. Same goes for the reward -- for some people the incremental prestige difference between working at cs/baml vs gs/ms/pjt is not a huge deal.. For someone else that hates the BB model and really wants to work in a generalist program, the EB opportunity may be worth taking risk for. Again, all of this is really dependent on who you are, how good of an applicant you are, and what you want for a summer. This isn't even necessarily your full time job. Honestly, if you want my opinion based on the four sentences you've given me, if you interviewed at EVR, Moelis, PWP, PJT Rx, and any other BB or boutiques that have finished recruiting this cycle and only got one offer, I would accept it.
Yo you’d be going to Credit Suisse not Black Legend Capital stfu
Is that just a random boutique you thought of or did you have a particular experience with that firm? Seems like kind of an obscure reference.
It's this boutique in LA that randomly emailed my school's career center asking for candidates as if they were Lazard or something (looking for IVY graduates, 3.8+ GPA, BB summer analyst experience, etc.). In return, they offered a free apprenticeship program in the form of an IB analyst job with senior exposure and the potential to become a paid position. Maybe they're a fine shop in real life, which I doubt, but who knows? Just picking on them because they're a random, irrelevant boutique. This was c. 2017.
This guy. Dude go to sleep or honestly leave Wall Street lol
Did his post offend you because youre going to CS? S&T too
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