Advice for people on how to lateral from SA to FT

**I'm not sure why the formatting has gotten messed up b/c it is formatted correctly in Edit mode. Sorry. Bold is section header, while bold is sub/sub-sub etc section headers.

I have seen a few posts about SAs trying to lateral, so I thought I would write this about my successful experience as I was able to do so. There are a few posts like this, 1 of which was especially helpful to me, and I would recommend you search and read them. 

Immediately after getting my SA offer, I knew I wanted to lateral. I didn't really do anything during my junior year to make that happen (mostly out of laziness), so can't comment on if you should start networking to lateral pre-SA. Once my SA started, I started to network, and was able to get an offer I really wanted. Here is my advice:

1. Your #1 priority is getting a return. The bankers I coffee chatted all said that unless I got a return, they would not even be able to consider me. For advice on this, look at other WSO posts, but generally just have a good attitude, be consistent and reliable in your work output, and be very communicative.
2. Make sure your group doesn't find out. If they do, you won't get a return. This makes things tough because if you are performing well and are around nice people, the Analysts/Associates will start mentoring you and directly asking you if you will want to return. If you are a nice person, you will probably feel really bad lying to them.
3. Tips on making sure your group doesn't find out:
   1. When networking with other banks: Add your team on LinkedIn, and then when looking for Analysts at other banks, reach out to people that don't have mutual connections with the people in your group.
      1. When asking for chats, either ask for in-person or over phone, not Zoom.
         1. Suggest in-person only if your offices are right next to each other (because then you can go to a coffee place that is 5 min walk from both your offices) OR if you are asking to chat on a Sat (because you probably won't have to work on Sat, unless you're on a live deal).
         2. Don't suggest Zoom, because everyone takes internal Zoom calls from their desks. You will look very weird carrying your laptop with you to a conference room or phone booth and people will know you're not logging into a work meeting.
         3. Suggest phone because it's easiest to slip your phone and AirPods into your pocket. You can then take call from balcony, cafeteria, outside, etc. This is easiest because then if you are pinged, you can quite literally be back at your desk within minutes.
      2. Suggest times where where there is plausible deniability for why you're not at your desk: morning/afternoon coffee time, lunch, etc.
      3. Plan ahead for WHERE you're going to take it, have back-ups, and have an excuse on why you needed to be at that place in case someone asks ("I was in the phone booth because my headphones broke" "Can I be on a call with my college advisor tomorrow? I need to get their sign-off on my fall schedule, and I can take it in the phone booth so I don't disturb anyone"). But remember if people are asking you, that means they're suspicious. It should not be noticeable to ANYONE that you are doing your chats!!
         1. As soon as it is noticeable, you may have jeopardized your return.
         2. Understand how noise travels: if you are in a phone booth, can you actually not hear anything from outside it? You don't want to be in a situation where you thought it was noise proof but actually your group could hear everything.
   2. When networking with other groups at your bank: Again, be strategic!!
      1. If your group always goes to one spot for coffee, don't suggest that spot for a coffee chat with someone from another group.
      2. If the group you're chatting with is on a different floor, fill the location section of the calendar invite with their floor. Then you + the person you're chatting can go down together. This avoids the situation where you're waiting in the lobby and someone from your group is coming back from a coffee run and sees you.
   3. In general, be careful with your excuses: The only time it is worth giving an excuse to your group about why you can't make a meeting is if you're chatting with a Director. Otherwise, no matter how last minute, just reschedule the chat.
4. Don't tell the other interns: Even if you become friends with them. Keep things vague. Yeah you might be friends with them but they are better friends with their college friends who  intern at another bank, and suddenly you are their dinner conversation gossip. If you tell them, you have no clue who all is going to find out, if it's going to get back to your team, etc.
5. Figuring out how to lateral = doing chats:
   1. Especially alums from your school, even if you're not interested in their group: Ask them to chat them under the pretext of just wanting to connect with bankers from your school since you are an SA (which is true). My convos with alum were very casual, and they would usually bring up how I was liking my summer, which would give me an opportunity to bring up wanting to lateral. Maybe I was just lucky, but the alums I chatted with were very direct and then explained how lateraling works/if they know someone who did and you can get advice from, etc. If you're actually interested in lateraling to the alum's group then maybe it's worth it to be more formal. Alums at your bank are a good place to start off.
   2. Chat with someone who did lateral: People at your bank who lateralled from one IB group for SA to another within your bank for FT are especially helpful because they can explain to you tips on how to avoid getting caught, and give you personal experience on what to expect with HR, signing timelines, etc.
6. UNDERSTAND THAT MOST FT RECRUITING IS DONE ON A GROUP-BY-GROUP BASIS, NOT A BANK BASIS!!
   1. This is the most important thing to understand!! Now you are not interviewing for GS or Barclay's. You are interviewing for a specific coverage area or product group.
   2. A note on online applications to establish the importance of networking & this section:
      1. Many groups will fill FT without even opening online applications: Groups & banks made SA hiring decisions either with the understanding they hired with the goal of converting the SA to FT, or they over-hired and have to cut. If they do end up having room to hire a non-SA, there is no incentive to create an online application to solicit hires. They can just take in the people that have tried to network for an interview, and extend whoever performed the best an offer. Remember that FT hiring is usually max 1 new person per group, and usually 0 new hires per group.
      2. Alternatively, an open FT application is not indicative of new FT hires: Some banks will open up a FT application and not review a single application. Each bank has it's own reason for doing this.
      3. But, this isn't always true: there are banks that do hire people FT based on just their application and no networking, so I do think it's worth it to still apply to online applications you see, just in case.
   3. Talk to as many people as you can in the specific group you want: In the experiences I know of of people who successfully lateraled, they had talked to basically all the associates/analysts in that group by the time the summer ended, and usually had an associate facilitate setting up a chat with a VP, and either Director or MD.
   4. Continuously make a good impression: Going off the above, you have no clue who is the decision-maker or how the politics of that group work. So it is important to make a good impression on everyone you chat with. Eventually, someone will reveal to you how things work ("make sure you talk to all the analysts" / "reach back out to X person and say you've chatted with a, y, and z, and that I recommended you also talk to A, and if they would be able to connect you").
   5. Be strategic with your time: Everyone wants to lateral to the best groups and banks. I have only heard of people upgrading themselves 1 tier for FT. i.e. in past years, EB FT hires are almost exclusively mid group at GS/JPM/MS OR top group at Citi/BofA. Your group probably takes precedence over bank tbh. You should network accordingly. I have seen only 2 exceptions to this, both of which were people with exceptionally strong resumes.
      1. Also remember, you just won't have time to network with a ton of different groups. You are working 80+ hours a week. You probably don't have the luxury of WFH because you don't have a good set-up in your summer sublease. So you are always in the office. It is probably best you target a few groups, and then readjust if you are not having luck. And the fewer groups you target, the less of a chance there is your group finds out.
   6. Be communicative: Eventually after enough chats, there will be one person who is identified as the point person for you to check in with. Be very communicative to this person (i.e. "Hey, just wanted to give you a quick update that I was able to also talk to X and Y this week. Next week, I have chats set up with A and B").
      1. Summer is an EXTREMELY BUSY time: all regular deal-related tasks need to happen, AN2s are leaving, incoming AN1s are going through FT training, the interns are there and need to be managed, bonuses need to be figured out, etc. If you are not communicative, you will be forgotten. Don't overdo it, but I think weekly or biweekly check-ins are good, unless you are told to do something else.
7. During your networking chats: These are very similar to the chats you did for SA. Either they will lead the convo, or you will. If they don't lead, then start off with suggesting you both intro yourself, and then asking questions.
   1. Remember you are networking for that group, so your approach and everything should be tailored. the tell me about yourself answer you had for generalist SA recruiting is not going to cut it.
      1. if trying to lateral to another coverage: your story needs to be about both why finance + that specific coverage they are in. This is only believable if it's true and you actually have demonstrated interest in that coverage: i.e. you want to be in Tech coverage, and you joined a YC start-up as an in-semester intern.
         1. If this is the case, you need to come off as extremely interested in that coverage. Mention an article you read and what you thought about it, and ask if they've seen any similar trends or have any thoughts. The conversation should almost sound like it's between 2 peers having a discussion, rather than a Q&A session. But avoid disagreeing with them, because that makes it seem like you think you know more than the Analyst.
      2. if trying to upgrade banks within the same coverage: need to establish that you like that coverage, and without sounding ungrateful/bashing your bank, explain why you want to change banks. this is just going to be for prestige reasons tbh for almost everyone, so you need an answer that isn't that.
   2. Have very specific and fleshed out answers for why you are trying to lateral, why you took the offer from your group if you knew you would try to, etc. Some people will interrogate you. People have different opinions on what you should say here, but I was just completely honest. People have different opinions on this, i.e. some WSO posts say be more indirect at the beginning of the summer and direct at the end, but that's what I did.
   3. Most principles from your pre-SA chats still apply: For example, you should ask at the end if they have any recommendations for other people to talk to. Remember your goal is to talk to all the juniors in that group, and ties into how with more chats, you will find out more information about who the decision makers are, etc.
   4. Always be very grateful: You should never talk bad about your group. You should only be abundantly thankful about the chance to intern there, and communicate this clearly to the people you're networking with.
      1. DON'T ever frame something as a negative ("we don't have a lot of deal flow and are only working on pitches"), only discuss positives about the group you're trying to network into ("I'm really interested because of the diversity of learning opportunities: X Person mentioned how they were working on a cross-border M&A deal and holding the pen on the model for it as a first-year, which seems like a really unique and valuable opportunity etc etc")
   5. Be resilient:
      1. Be prepared for no information on process: The people you are talking to most likely will have zero idea if their group will be hiring anyone knew for FT. From Analysts to Directors that you chat with, they will tell you they have no clue how the process works.
      2. Be prepared to wait: Many groups will not know if they have headcount to hire returns until after their SAs accept/decline their returns. So, you may only hear from the group you've been chatting with all summer a month or more after the summer has ended.
         1. Be cognizant of the fact that the deadline to accept your return might be sooner than when FT interviews even start. Some groups won't accept anyone that has taken a return, some are fine with reneging, etc.
            1. On this note, understand signing return timelines: HR almost never extends when your return explodes.The only time I have heard of HR extending how long you have to accept your group's return is when you are trying to lateral to a different group in the same bank, and the other group confirms this.
         2. Don't keep your hopes too high because the group might have no headcount. Don't keep your hopes too low because the group might have been able to expand headcount.
   6. After you get your return, things speed up: Every group you have networked with is waiting to hear about this. After you get your return, email the point of contact you have established saying you have a return, etc. You will start getting calls. Anything can happen, they might pull you in for an interview the next day, or you might be told you still have to wait. 

And finally, the required disclaimer that this advice is not universally applicable. Each bank and group handles this differently. I am sure for some great groups, none of this is applicable, and all you need to do is drop in your application when it opens. It is entirely possible I got my offer despite what I have written above, not because of it. If you are not able to lateral, it is really not the end of the world since there are cases of people lateraling at the end of AN1. Good luck.