Anxiety / Mental Health Issues - Career Killer?

Hey guys - thanks in advance for any advice you might have.

For background on me, I've been working in finance for about 3 years now, all of which has been in MM IB in NYC.

I've dealt with anxiety issues (OCD, some level of GAD, social anxiety - you name it), but I found a way to cope somewhat effectively in undergrad using a mix of beta blockers, meditation, and therapy. Unfortunately, my mental health has taken a turn for the worse over the past few months. I recently had my first full blown panic attack, which I think was largely driven by stress created by other health issues + job induced stress + stress from buy side recruiting. All of that has combined to create a perfect storm where I feel constantly stressed and anxious.

I'm starting therapy again to help "steady the ship" but I'm increasingly concerned that my career / lifestyle is unsustainable. I dreamed of making it to NYC and working in finance when I was younger, and it kills me to feel like my professional drive is being sabotaged by mental health issues. It's incredibly frustrating to feel like I've done everything right academically/professionally, only to have my body fight against me like this. My family has told me just to take a lower stress job given my history of mental health issues, but I would love to find a way to make it work. I definitely see myself moving to the investing world long term, and I'm hopeful that I can find ways to manage my mental health issues so that it doesn't affect my career interests.

With that in mind, I'd love to hear any thoughts (anonymous or otherwise) from some of the more senior guys on here who have struggled with mental health issues and found success - I know the subject is somewhat taboo, which is why I'm posting anonymously myself. I'm sure that a lower stress job would be easier to function in, but I'm also unwilling to just give up on the current path I'm on simply because I'm being challenged right now. Any advice on how to cope with existing mental health issues and still be successful in the field would be massively appreciated.

 

I don’t know the answer but you aren’t alone. I’ve dealt with anxiety my whole life but have been dealing with terrible depression and anxiety the past few months. If something doesn’t change soon I might look to exit the industry. It kills me knowing that I worked so hard to get here but the reality is I’m not happy. 

 

I'll explain as I hate when people do that. Here's my reasoning at least.

I think that there is an obsession with working out in our generation and making it the center of your life and the most important orb which everything should go around. Yes, it is good for you. Yes, it will make OP feel slightly better.

But for problems as severe as his, working out and eating clean will not solve the #$*%ing problem. It's a suggestion by someone who might be well-intended but doesn't have a clue about serious mental health problems. Yeah, mild depression, maybe go work out and eat clean. For the above, broccoli is not going to help.

 

I'm not the one MSing you to be clear, but there is a lot more to anxiety/mental health than just eating clean and lifting weights and for many people with actual diagnosed mental health issues this may help but won't fix it. A lot of people minimize mental health issues by saying they can be solved with answers like these, not saying that's what you were doing at all

Array
 

My argument is that lifting weights and eating clean are the first things, not the only things, you should do to try to fix the depression. You need physical activity and proper nutrition to feel well, both physically and mentally.

If you spend 80+ hours per week sitting under fluorescent lights and staring into a computer screen, go days without seeing the sun in the NYC winter, eat garbage, and never get exercise, you should expect to feel like shit. That’s not a sign of a chemical balance or anything else wrong with your body, that’s your body’s healthy response to the unhealthy lifestyle you’re putting it through. Running to a psychiatrist and getting on pills before making any attempt to solve the problem naturally is not the answer. You can drug yourself with SSRIs and numb yourself to the pain and feel like you got a quick fix, but if you don’t address the issues that caused the problem in the first place, your depression will ultimately get worse.

There’s no downside to taking this advice. If you make an honest attempt (a few months) at eating right and getting exercise and still don’t feel well, at the very least you’ll then have more energy and clarity of mind to address the issue from there. Conversely, there are plenty of people who fry themselves on SSRIs, become emotionless husks of their former selves, and then don’t ever care to change the conditions that caused their depression in the first place.

 

I was diagnosed with OCD and anxiety after a depressive episode that pushed me to therapy and specialty care. I’ve been taking Lexapro for around 3 months now and honestly the best i’ve felt mentally in so long. I was hesitant at first about “changing how i think” or being reliant on taking a pill every morning, but honestly its the best decision ive ever taken. Perhaps thats in the cards for you if you already have OCD diagnosed. 

Hope the best for you, a drug alone, is never a full-stop solution and for me, has been paired with continual meetings with my psychiatrist and therapist, support from my girlfriend and family, and being more upfront about my struggled with those around me at the work place. My 2 cents 

 

I was in a similar situation to you, always struggled with anxiety from a young age, tried medication & therapy over a number of years but I was never 'cured' - it just made my life slightly more bearable. When COVID came I juat couldn't take the IBD lifestyle of constant pressure & fire drills anymore so I moved into a low stress corporate job and never looked back. Despite the lower comp, life is so much better I cannot even put it into words how good it feels. 

 
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There’s lots of successful people out there with severe mental health issues (and just the ones who have come out publicly to be diagnosed.. who knows how many others keep it a secret or never got diagnosed).

Personally, I think you’re doing the right thing by reaching out to professional help. That’s the right move. Additionally, just have quarterly check ins with yourself. How did that quarter go, is it sustainable, what do you expect out of the next quarter? That might make a decision a lot more digestible than wondering if you can sustain a 20+ year career in something. Just focus on quarter by quarter metrics (or whatever time frame isn’t too short to assess but isn’t so long it’s anxiety inducing).

I am a SWE and have been diagnosed with so many acronyms you’d think it’s a government agency. I take it seriously how to check in with myself and course correct constantly.

“The three most harmful addictions are heroin, carbohydrates, and a monthly salary.” - Nassim Taleb
 

You are taking the right first step, getting professional help for mental health issues. That is the right starting point to help talk, work through, and importantly find strategies to help you work through it. I've dealt with anxiety, of varying degrees, off and on for years now - a few years ago it got bad enough that I caused myself heart palpitations for months - some of that was career induced, life change induced, overall health anxiety induced, you name it. 

Anyway - I started with therapy, which helped immensely. Find someone who you trust and will help you build a life around what your goals are rather than trying to build a life around your mental health challenges - the definition of this is largely up to you and them to decide on together, and move forward. 

On the career front - stress is unavoidable. You are a few years in already so you know the drill and largely what your tolerances are. Here's what helped me, and I'm a few years into this process in full disclosure - remember that your career does not define you, and you are not your career. Find other hobbies or things that excite you outside of what you do for a living. Similarly, you have some experience now - you are not married to IB, and it's worth exploring other opportunities for yourself. Even giving yourself some light at the end of the tunnel might be helpful, that's again for you to decide on. 

As far as managing stress and/or anxiety - for me it's been a process. The obvious and hardest thing to do is to put yourself first. That means making, not finding, the time to exercise, eat well, and do those things that help you manage anxiety. I've also found that limiting decisions, automating what I can, and simply reducing the number of stressors has been helpful. 

 

I personally have struggled with this, and my working solution is a combination of therapy, exercise (even walks count), and most importantly cutting drugs, nicotine, and alcohol from your life. It is a lift to be in this field with mental health issues, but with enough discipline and organization you can put your body and mind in the best position to test itself. If it still doesn’t work, find a role that aligns with you as a person. No job is worth destroying yourself for.

 

A similar situation happened to me awhile back (~1 yr+), I had my first panic attack ever and I couldn’t drive or go to public places for like 2-3 weeks (had to use up some of PTO). Given the industry we work in, the hyper competitive environment and 70-100 hour work weeks can be stressful and further induce panic attacks. But trust me there’s a silver lining, I haven’t had a panic attack since that first one (i have been close). Anyways - here are some things that have helped me with reducing anxiety and stress levels.

  1. Working out at least 3 times a week. This helps release dopamine and make you feel better to start the day.
  1. Realizing that there’s no need to sweat the small stuff. Easier said than done but most stress is self-induced unless u have a shitty MD or VP.
  1. Try to become more “in the moment” when you are trying to relax. I like to stretch and read a easy-to-read finance books (eg Liars Poker, etc) or a book unrelated to the industry.
  1. Clean your room and practice self discipline. I.e., try to do stuff you should do but don’t want to do in order to “win little battles” before your day starts. For me, I like to make my bed or take cool showers. These cheesy little things will help improve your mindset by focusing on the things you can control and help you thrive in discomfort. Also meditating is good for this as well.

Hopefully you will look back at this point in ur life and realize that you were over stressed. You hear it time and time again, most successful guys in the industry didn’t have everything planned out they just had a loose plan and worked there ass off. If you try to control everything you will go insane.

Hope this helps - thought I would share to at least give you some hope that there’s grass that is greener. Good luck and hope you get better!

 

I have struggled a lot with my mental health, specifically anxiety, depression, and OCD. Ultimately, I decided to leave banking quite early as I knew that the environment was not conducive to my situation. The steps you’re taking are the right ones, and please never feel ashamed for doing what’s best for you. One person can have many careers, but the same person will only have one life. Even though I’m a stranger on the Internet, I’d be happy to talk through what helped me and the steps I took. Best of luck. 

 

Here are some things that have helped me:

- Quitting alcohol 

- Exercising (highly recommend jogging and rowing)

- Yoga headstand or half headstand 

- Doing breathing exercises in the morning and at night. You can try it here:

- Taking 10-20 mg Citalopram (Celexa) once a day for two months

- Not overthinking or sweating the small stuff

- Doing one hour sessions of boxing mitt work 

- Getting enough sleep and having a consistent sleep schedule

 

It is really important you are seeking professional help. I would suggest this is valuable to anyone not only when you are spiralling, but also on an ongoing basis, similar to performance coaching, to constantly improve the ability to identify and manage stressor, triggers, and their health impact.

I inadvertently became the primary caretaker of someone who suffered acute mental health illnesses for some time. In my (unprofessional, anecdotal) experience, mental health can fluctuate in waves through feedback loops which impacts perspective significantly. Only you will know what is sustainable for you. This requires introspection assessing your feelings and behaviour at different times in different environments, and can be assisted by external perspectives. This is a key benefit of therapy.

The person I cared for felt similarly concerned about the sustainability of their lifestyle and their illness built to the point of temporarily withdrawing from career, social, and self care responsibilities. Positively, managing health and stress is a trainable skill. CBT and other approaches led to slow but gradual improvements in their ability to identify and manage stressors and triggers. They are now performing at the highest level in their life, at a point they didn't believe they could. I am no longer surprised when I meet high performers (across corporate, sports, military, and academia) who similarly have gone through multiple, often lengthy, episodes of mental health concerns, stress, and/or traumatic experiences and have come out of it as even better, more resilient performers as they build skills to manage these. 

I share the above to highlight the importance of professional help, constant improvement, and the fact that although it may feel like a mountain to overcome now, you will be able to climb it one step at a time, and become a better-equipped mountaineer for the future. Best of luck.

 

I’m sorry to hear you are going through this. I’ve been there- so badly that I was hospitalized. I am absolutely fine now- no meds or therapy for many years. It’s important to take every single action you can RIGHT NOW as i ignored things and thought therapy would be enough and extreme stress led me down a bad path. Here are my tips:

1) exercise and eat healthy 

2) take an antidepressant (prescribed) to combat the GAD 

3) accept benzos (prescribed) to help you through until the antidepressant kicks in (takes 4-6 weeks for them to work)

4) see a therapist and be committed to not phoning it in 

5) don’t feel you need to hold this in or be ashamed of this- you are not alone. Many many people go through this. 
6) learn coping and self talk skills to help you stay on the present so the anxiety can’t take hold. What worked well for me when my anxiety was high was saying to myself “ok what are the actual facts here”- it helped me to not go down the anxiety what-if dread spiral. 
 

feel free to PM me- I’ve got a lot of years on you and happy to chat. You are going to be ok. 

Like the unadjusted- only with a little bit extra.
 

Have OCD as well, if OCD is the predominant source of anxiety would highly recommend the web based therapy platform NOCD. They walk you through ERP therapy and has done wonders for me after spending significant time doing talk therapy with very little results. Hopeful for your situation and glad you are seeking help. 

 

I've had panic attacks just doing normal stuff like grocery shopping and even in an Ironman race during the swim. It is the most terrifying thing in existence. I feel your pain.

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee
 

Have dealt with panic attacks since childhood. Still remember the first one. Trust me, had the same doubts about this career early on as you are having now. Things that have helped me:

1) CBT - find a good therapist and stick with it. Take it seriously and work on the coping skills they teach you. 
2) Working with my doc to incorporate Xanax for situations that are very likely to trigger panic attack for me. There are a few situations in particular where they tend to happen and having some meds help take the edge off has been very helpful. 
3) this is the hard one - exposure. Whatever is causing the most panic and anxiety, run toward it. Expose yourself to it. As much as possible. It will help your mind realize you don’t need to be scared of said situation and the nightmare scenarios you were stressing about are exceedingly rare. After a while you may not even needs the meds I mentioned in point 2 because you’ve gotten so used to the situation that used to terrify you. 
4) learn to accept that you can’t possibly control everything or be perfect. Accept failures and problems are inevitable. Have the confidence to know whatever happens you will be ok and can handle it. 
5) learn deep breathing skills and find internal talk tracks that work for you. For example, one for me is “I have been in this situation before and have made it through just fine. The worst that can happen is a panic attack and I have had those many times before and always end up fine. If I feel panic symptoms I can’t control that. Let it come. It will be good practice for me on my journey to getting over this”. It also helps to list out times you have been through similar situations in the past and where everything turned out ok. 
6) know that you feel this internally way more than anyone externally notices. You may think wow people see me freaking out and now I’m even more anxious. Not true. They generally can’t tell or nowhere near as much as your anxious brain is telling you. 
7) I know several other senior people in PE and successful entrepreneurs who have dealt with anxiety, bipolar, depression etc. this career path significantly over indexes on personalities who are prone to those sorts of things. High achiever correlates with people who are very hard on themselves etc. 
 

Overall: I think your original question was can you make it to senior levels in this industry despite these sorts of things. I am a sr person at a highly respected PE firm with literally zero family connections, non target schools etc and yet have made it so there is one “affirmative” and I know several others who have dealt with similar and made it to the top anyway. Plus many people still fear judgment on these sorts of things so I assure you way more people deal with this compared to the number who openly talk about it. Keep your head up, know you’re not alone, put in the work to proactively get better at dealing with these really tough challenges, and don’t give up on your career dreams because of this - you can conquer this stuff and still achieve all you’ve hoped to in this field. 

 

I messed up so many interviews because I was anxious and my voice was trembling. That's why I landed in tier-2 consulting instead of IB even though I went to a top school and got interviews with all banks I applied to. And at work, the first year when I had to speak in front of colleagues and clients, my heart was beating so fast, I couldn't breath, voice was trembling. But with time it passes, you gain experience, you start feeling more confident, voice trembles less often and less noticeable, and eventually it may completely disappear. For me though, what helped is being in the same environment for long enough to start feeling comfortable. If you switch environment and jump between banks or industries, then you always end up in new environments surrounded by strangers which provokes anxiety. I would suggest to just stay in one environment and with time you'll feel more confident and the anxiety will be much better.

 
magicjava

Idk about you but I think anxiety can be a huge motivating factor

Light anxiety can be a motivator. Like before a race. Heavy anxiety can be pure suffocation.  

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee
 

My advice is for you to find a different career path. I'm not suggesting for you to become a doctor or a painter, but perhaps explore adjacent options that require less hours/less stress. 

At the end of the day, if you keep going on like this, something is going to snap. You can go from having a career to having no career at all if you fall into a deep depression and enter a self destructive cycle. While you're still not there yet, now is a good opportunity to plan your exit and start somewhere else. Remember: nobody is going to give a shit how much money you made or what deals you were a part of at your funeral. This is cliche, but not a single person wishes they worked harder or got promoted while on their death bed. 

The entire purpose of life is self fulfillment. To believe that you will ever achieve self fulfillment by pulling 80 hour weeks in IB is a juvenile fantasy. At best, you will be rewarded with more work, more responsibilities, and a higher paycheck that you won't even get to enjoy. You are never going to grind your way to happiness. You either like what you do today, or you will never like it. Stop waiting to hit rock bottom before you come to that realization and just go and pivot right now!

You owe no allegiance to your childhood fantasies of being some big shot banker on Wall Street. Besides, those cool movies usually end with the protagonist in jail or with their life in shambles. Pursue personal fulfillment first and foremost while you still have no real responsibilities besides your job and no dependents to take care of. Imagine how much worse its going to get when you're married, have kids, and need to do the exact same shit but with those other externalities on top of it. Many guys are trapped in this cycle and are miserable for it. 

Hobbies aren't going to help you. Working out isn't going to help you. Therapy and medication isn't going to help you. Those things are all palliative. They deal with the symptoms, not the cause. You need to overcome the cause of your problems. You need to find out what makes you happy and you need to pursue it, even if it means that you need to let go of some of your ego and pretenses about "working in high finance". 

 

I've been down a bad rabbit role before with anxiety. I lost confidence and thought that I would never be able to work as a SWE again because I had severe panic disorder

At the time i worked the hardest job I ever had, it was a distributed microservice codebase that served millions of customers, I most likely developed panic disorder because of the shit work environment and colleagues but I was still able to deliver projects before my deadlines (and I'm not an amazing programmer). I then went on to get my dream job at a certain german car manufacturer. You can still have a good career with certain mental health issues, the brain is remarkably resilient.

What worked for me was The Dare response + Dr Harry Barry's Flagging anxiety in combination with

- breathing meditation 3x day for 15 mins (pm me for a youtube playlist). I thought meditation was bs at first, it really helps and it's scientifically proven to decrease anxiety. Meditation was my turning point to getting better. 

- 30 mins daily workout, mornings are best to decrease your stress and anxiety levels. I did 10 mins of cardio 20 mins of weight lifting 

- I had low vitamin d and had to go on supplements so get a blood test

- you've got to learn the anxious thought cycles and try to recognize when you get stuck in an anxious loop. I don't remember which book I read has them but if you should be able to Google this

- I used to keep a list of all the anxiety symptoms and wake up each day and check off what I was feeling. It helped me. Results may vary

- I don't do alcohol or drugs or smoke but if you are you should try to cut down 

- whenever I get really anxious I try this breathing technique I learnt from Andrew Huberman, breath in deeply, then hold and breath in again then exhale

- Chamomile tea has been proven to help with GAD, it basically resets me to a state of little to no anxiety and it helps me sleep, I only drink this once a week on a Saturday night to unwind

- I keep a gratitude journal, it helps to stay positive 

- There's probably some other things I can't remember right now but if you want more information I'm happy to help. 

- When times get bad remember that no matter how bad you think your life it there's someone out there who would trade their life for yours in an instant.

 

I think it is great that people are giving good examples of what has worked for them in terms of "stress relief." Unfortunately, I think you need to figure out what helps you relieve your stress. For some people it's exercising and some people it's music, but everyone is different and you need to find out what works for you. 

Separately, I agree that you should seek professional help. I personally see someone weekly purely because it helps me talk to someone that is not involved in the industry and has different insights. When unmanaged / unchecked, I have seen anxiety affect people physically (e.g., ulcers). I would highly suggest that you ignore whatever stigma there is because you can't help anyone if you can't help yourself.

Happy to chat if you'd like - please feel free to PM.

 

I want to dm you something that I don't want to post here in case in case it will dissuade you from doing it.

It's info on a resource I think you should check out. I encourage you to take a leap of faith and do it. It's not going to be a magic bullet but it's not going to be woo either- far from it.

Feel free to reach out. I may not get back to you ASAP, but I'll try to check my account more frequently in case you do decide to DM me.

 

I still get anxiety from time to time, and also at times feel overwhelmed.  I am sure I am not stronger than you or anything, my issues are just not as severe.  I bet it happens to almost everybody in our line of work (with varying degree and frequency of course).  Continue to work with a professional to see if they have strategies to help you manage it.  But if you feel like you cannot over come it, just remember there is nothing more important than your health.  

 

I had a similar situation when pursuing my dream of becoming a lawyer. Facing a ton of social anxiety was a big hurdle for me, considering the pleads, meeting new clients, and everything else the job demanded.

I started going to individual therapies that made a huge difference in my life. I engaged in social exercises like practicing conversations with strangers, gradually building up confidence. Over time, these techniques helped me manage my anxiety and still follow my professional path.

 

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