At what point is it over?
I'm doing my undergrad in the UK at a semi-target and I'm applying for summer internships. Things are really competitive here since there are far fewer positions in London and you have countless applications.
Almost everyone I see on Linkedin at top firms literally goes to Oxford, Cambridge, or LSE for their undergrad.
I was speaking to this guy I know a few years older than me and he went to a non-target university for his undergrad so he stood absolutely no chance for IB internships. Got rejected from literally everywhere but managed to get into a decent master's programme at UCL that was a lot better than his undergrad.
He thought doing the master's at UCL will help him in the initial screening phase where previously he was getting auto-rejected for going to a complete non-target.
He still ended up with no offers.
Got his CV and cover letters checked everywhere with the careers team and other people in banking that he was networking with. Nothing worked. He networked a lot but didn't even get called to an interview. I remember he helped me with financial modelling stuff since he had practiced so much for it, but didn't even get the chance to demonstrate that since he was rejected pre-interview.
He's now doing audit at a non Big 4 firm. He spent around £30k on a master's degree at UCL that turned out to be absolutely useless since he ended up in a job that he didn't even need the master's degree for.
Honestly I got scared when I found out where he ended up since he was so hardworking and had practiced so much and had really good technical skills. Part of me worries that I might end up like that given how competitive things are.
I spoke to him recently and he said that his chances at IB probably ended when he went to a non-target undergrad. Thinking he could still get into IB cost him £30k for a master's.
I really don't want to end up with no offers if I don't stand a chance at IB.
At what point do you have to call it quits? At what point do you have to look at the competition from Cambridge/Oxford/LSE and just admit that they are going to get the job over you? They also have top notch technical skills and a plethora of leadership positions and extra-curriculars etc.
Why should firms pick me over that Cambridge guy with better A Levels, a better uni, who also has a bunch of extra-curriculars, and has a better internships?
Obviously I'm still going to apply since it's free, but seeing how competitive it is and how it's mainly Cambridge/Oxford/LSE or diversity that get offers is making me consider other options.
Applying to IB from a semi target has never been easy. At many BBs and EBs, the majority of IB classes will be target school kids. When speaking about like MS/GS/JP that goes to near 100% if I'm very honest. But literally all those firms let you apply to multiple divisions, so I don't really see why the panic.
Semi-target people still get into IB though lol. I went to a semi, have a lot of uni friends at BB/EB. Some didn't make it to a name brand but they still made it somewhere. You don't necessarily have to be cracked lol. As someone who's done interviews (for ER and admittedly not AC/roundtables) you'd be surprised how much vibe and personality weigh on the decision to bring you in once you're in the room. Technicals are of importance but not nearly as much as most undergrads seem to think lol. I'm speaking from an ER perspective but my IB friends would concur.
In regards to your friend, he had non target undergrad and UCL masters is generally not a target for IB. It's definitely a significantly improved brand name though. He should've definitely landed something better than non Big 4 audit - I suspect there's something he messed up there - or maybe it really has got that much more competitive in the past few years.
Edit: OP dmed me with a self-pity rant. I explained I wasn't particularly interested in being his therapist and to not go down this route of self pity. OP has proceeded to tell me to "fuck off" and unalive myself. I'm going to leave the above reply up for others' info, but posting just so people know who they are dealing with.
Nah it's only IB and other FO roles that are super competitive.
He exclusively applied to IB and went he got rejected from everywhere he applied super late to accounting firms because all the other deadlines had closed by then.
Yeah, he didn't really make optimal decisions there So as I said, he messed something up, and that's why he ended up where he did.
Quick question: would the situation have been different if he had a target undergrad e.g. UCL / LSE / Oxbridge?
Just curious since I'm considering doing a masters and have a target undergrad background.
If he had a target undergrad, he probably wouldn't have done a UCL masters.
How did you not see that OP is really an alt account of our well-known friend that would do precisely that in your DM 😂
Yes I realise now, but only after he dmed me. The tone, desperate self pity, grammar, vocabulary is very similar. Account created not long ago too.
My last DM to him is roughly along the lines of "are you related to giveadvicepls by any chance", to which he replied "?".
My only doubt is - why would OP spend all his time asking about SA positions when giveadvicepls is allegedly graduated.
>only £30k for a masters
i envy the English.
you need to apply to other job roles to hedge, can’t just all-in IB and expect to make it.
dude what lol that’s still 40k usd and in a city akin to one of the most expensive cities in the US don’t act like it’s cheap
UCL is a non target at the masters level. What did he except to happen?
He was targeting boutiques and MM firms so thought he would at least be able to get something.
I went to an ex-poly for my undergrad (up North) so here is my view. You have little to no chance of getting into IB through the graduate scheme path. Having said this, there are other "non-direct" paths. The best path is to land a big 4 seat in audit (there are plenty of offices outside of London where competition will be less intense) and complete the ACA. In the UK, having the ACA with big 4 audit experience is viewed in very high regard and opens up a lot of doors (ER, MM PE, debt advisory). Another path I have seen is to join a corporate graduate scheme (say a company like Tesco) where you will do some form of management accounting (CIMA/ACCA). From there, you do an MBA and hope to use your sector knowledge to enter ER (covering your sector) or land an IB associate seat.
Poor advice.
Audit to IB rarely works out. Most people go Big 4 transactions to IB after passing all their ACA exams at the first attempt.
The MBA market is dead in the UK and only a few people from LBS go into IB and even then it's rare because there isn't a structured pipeline for MBA IB recruiting in the UK.
If I was to do an MBA it would be in the US where there is a far more structured pipeline. There is obviously the visa issue but that's a risk I would have to take in this scenario.
why are you ignoring advice from people in the industry?
Audit to IB is very very COMMON. Audit to PE even happens for MM PEs. Look at LinkedIn.
MBA is what you make out of it.
They shouldn't, hence why your mate got no offers. Just chill for a bit and do a masters at oxbridge, that's you way out like it or not. Or work noname audit, it's not the end of the world.
Did you study at Oxford or Cambridge?
No name audit is the end of the world
I will probably get a little bit of hate with this comment but with all due respect, there are multiple people at semi-targets and non-targets getting in.
My uni itself has a lot of people getting into front office roles particularly IB, etc, and I know many others at other universities getting in too.
That's not to dampen your mood but to say "diversity hires" are getting in when a lot of my cohort and other cohorts are majority White + it's not like the US. The "diversity hires" don't have it easier to get in. You still have to be great but if they're choosing between two very similar candidates and both meet the criteria's (which they have to) and one is White and one is non White, then they most likely would choose the non White one if that's the only distinguishable trait but they are still very qualified and require talent/to be smart... In fact, I have seen plenty of very qualified people not get in despite being the face of diversity on top of being incredibly good applicants.
Also everyone goes through the exact same process. Again, it's not the US. Nepotism does not work here. Currently speaking to a VP of an Investment Bank at a top BB and they tried getting their own kid in but couldn't. Kid couldn't even get into any of the schemes. They go through the entire process. No skipping.
The stats even showed that those from non-targets that make it to interviews actually have the highest offer rate then it's the target schools. There's then a big difference between semi-target schools and target schools offer rate - semi-targets don't get as many offers by a large amount compared to targets and non-targets. Between non-targets and targets there's not as big of a difference but a difference is still there.
One look at LinkedIn at the top firms like Goldman Sachs, there's people from Kings College London, Liverpool, Bath, Bristol, etc, who have gotten in.
Investment Banking is difficult to get into no matter where you are. Plenty of Oxbridge students get rejected. Historically, Oxbridge students were the only people getting accepted but these days, no they're not.
Truly speaking, the chances of getting in are low regardless. A top uni name does get your foot in the door but it's really mostly about you. I see so many people say they're not getting in because they don't go to a target but they're weak at hirevues, they're weak at online tests, their CVs aren't great to begin with, they have other weaknesses, etc. You just have to keep trying and separate yourself from others. I'm sure they're bored of seeing the same CVs again and again, do something notable. Speak to the recruitment team. Network more - not just ask them a few questions but make them really like you to the point they offer to schedule meets with you.
Also make sure you apply a few days within the application coming out. Lots of people apply 2+ weeks later and that most likely means an automatic rejection.
Least obvious giveadviceplease alt account
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