Back office stint...
getting hired for a back office stint at a top i-bank. What is the pay like? What are the hours like? Atmosphere? Is there any upward mobility?
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Pay is similar in terms of base. Bonus is less, hours are less. Upward mobility/atmosphere I don't know.
id also like to know of the upward mobility.
Also, what about moving to front office within the company? Are your chances better than someone from the outside?
I've often wondered this.
For MS I can tell you that there isn't much hope for the back to front-office move. There are opportunities to move from back to middle-office (ie. operations to trading assistant), but the buck stops there. Some people have made it in the past [to front-office positions], but the chances are very slim, and rumor has it the chances are going to be ZERO in the near future. There's one guy who has been a TA for seven years - waiting to get pulled onto a desk - and even he is looking to move-on.
As others have said over and over: stay away from back-office, if at all possible.
ill double this....a colleague of mine quit his MS stint in the back office because there was no real mobility within the firm....hes doing back office now at Lehman which pays overtime and seems more willing to move people up....so it depends on the firm
Pardon my ignorance, but what does TA stand for?
TA = Trading Assistant
Thanks!
What about interning in back office? eg. If you are involved with IT, but work closely with the front office on deals, portfolio management, and such.
I think that most of the internships that people get are with the back office. I've realized that half the people that say they've interned for MS or GS have usually been for the back office.
I just want to know about the basic work they do and what the compensation is like. I want to know if its just outright office space type of dull work or atleast half as exciting as working in the front office.
When you say that the hours are less, by how much exactly? 60 instead of 90? And the base pay is 55K?
Bump for your question.
Hours: Go in around 6 or 7, get out at 6 or 7, on average. 60 hours is a safe estimate. No weekends.
Pay: Person I know works in MS Operations in Baltimore (they have some in NY too but all are being transferred to Baltimore). Baltimore pay is about $40K with little to no bonus. If you want to calculate the equivalency: $40k = $70K in Manhattan (courtesy of cnnmoney). I think the pay is closer to 55-60K for operations in New York, however this is a logical assumption, NOT fact.
Type of work: One main function of operations personnel is to clear and settle trades. Clearing trades involves looking at the records made by the bank’s traders when they buy and sell shares or other financial products, and checking that they match the records kept by people from whom or to whom the shares were bought or sold (the counterparties).
People who work in settlements “settle†trades or ensure the stocks or shares bought and sold by the bank’s traders are exchanged for the correct amount of money. “Settlements†covers everything from preparing the documentation required for a sale, to making sure the bank has been paid for all the shares it has sold and bought.
Overall: Operations people aren't generating revenue for the firm - therefore they are less respected and receive much lower compensation. However, someone does has to do the work, and the banks wouldn't be as efficient without those people.
That being said, I've been told the quality of people in operations is poor. They don't care much about their job and are not the brightest of the bunch. Turnover seems to be pretty high.
Some people have said back office is 9-5, others say its more like 8-6. Any reason to stay past 7 if you work in audit/compliance?
Is it worth it to get an MBA if you work in the back office? What do lawyers at BB's do? Do they get to work with the front office or clients at all?
You've given no reason why these operations folk should be willing to stay.
-You get shat upon -You settle other people's shit
It's like being the guy who creats the invoice for a 100 Million dollar project... anyone can do it. If I get a better offer to invoice 50K projects, would you move...... think aboue it.
I wasn't arguing a point, Sherlock.
Hey Im a rising junior at a target school with a good gpa and good extra curriculars.I'm currently interning in the treasury operations departments over at Merrill Lynch. They give me a lot of pretty substantial work to do and a lot of responsibility. just like everyone else on this website i want to do i-banking. Do you'll think working in the operations department this summer will help me get an internship at a BB bank next summer after my junior year. thanks
Everyone keeps saying back office is a dead end--just wondering, does no one from the back office move on to B-School?
well im just going into my junior year so b-school isn't really what im focusing on right now....
i'm not focusing on it either, that's why i said "just wondering"
Do you all think doing an internship at a back/mid office setting is going to make that much of a difference in future employment at the front end? It seems like it would be beneficial for future employees to understand the operations and "less exciting" end of things. I'm currently in an operations/services setting at an international bank, not US owned, for my current internship. I've learned a lot. I'm pretty sure being able to understand and explain the international flows of money and corresponding messages sent between financial institutions would only help in an interview for a FT analyst position. Just curious on your thoughts.
I worked as a TA at MS for 5 years hoping to make it onto a desk...it's a very, very rare occurrence...I knew of a few senior traders who had made the jump and one or two junior level ones...it takes a huge amount of luck mixed in with making the right contacts...i was making 80-90k total comp by the time i left (not very exciting, particularly living in NY) and worked about 50-60 hours...that being said, i am now in b-school and will be doing i-banking when i graduate...if you get into a good school, (which is hard coming from an operations background), banks will definitely look favorably on your experience as a TA for ibanking jobs...
I think back office is only good for an internship experience not a good career placement. I definitely cannot work in a setting where nothing new happens.
I have explained this in detail in other post but I made the move from back office to front office. You need a few things to go your way and a little luck. While rare it does happen.
Banks lenient on Back to Front: Lehman/GS Banks not lenient on mobility: MS/UBS Don't know about others.
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