Banks with bad culture
Which BB and EB have the worst/best culture? Pls help im not trying to spend my 20s with a bunch of stuffy a-holes
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JPM
Agreed
I did my analyst years at JPM and I'm definitely not out here to defend it (it sucked), but I didn't find it to have remarkably poor culture relative to other BBs.
Could you plz elaborate on this? Got really scared as incoming sa.
Idk what the question is but the answer is always Citi.
Fuck citi
Never worked there but if presented with the situation where I had to choose between Citi and a lower tier bank with better culture, I'm taking the latter (assuming the latter is also a legit bank)
id have rather not broke into banking than have my first internship be at citi tbh, not kidding either lol
What happened at Citi?
Such a shit company lol
why
Can confirm this one. The only thing I hear about Citi from my peers is their terrible culture.
Citi is far from toxic.
The top 3, jefferies, rbc Calgary
lol RBC Calgary the gulag
fair play to RBC Calgary but then you have to throw BMO M&M under the bus if we're hitting up Canadian shops
BMO M&M is the bus....
Know JEF HC in the US is a famous sweatshop, from what I have heard in LDN it is not any better. Also, MS Media & Comms in LDN has some truly shocking average hours last I heard...
Second this. The other analyst in my group came from there and he says hours were brutal
How's CS?
Pretty typical BB culture, certain groups are sweatier than others - overall not terrible but not a walk in the park either
Lazard
Gs
5 days in office
Worse than foster care
Ceo is a virtue signaling moonlighting dj
Hardo culture (they love "strivers" and hard workers with a "chip on their shoulder")
P
FT Partners by far
.
Miller buckfire
What’s wrong with MB
Yeah ive heard decent things ab the firm
Everyone is just responding names but he asked best / worst? Am i missing something
Lol it looks like most banks on the street are sweaty
think sweaty is to be expected but sweaty doesn't necessarily mean bad culture. Would you rather be sweaty at FTP or EVR (putting aside the prestige)?
I think sweatiness is more group dependent, while culture is a firm level thing. My group is way sweatier than it should be for a non-BB DCM team, but that sweatiness is kept in check by a broader good culture at the firm
Rough/rude cultures: Citi, JPM, and certain groups at MS… EB: Centerview, Lazard, Guggenheim
What groups at MS?
Could’ve sworn Centerview has a great culture??
people always say that here but all the analysts i talked to at CVP sounded like zombies
Gugg? really? heard they were good culture?
Super dependent on the group, some are brutal some are great
What groups at MS?
So you just assume MM banks have average cultures?
I heard at UBS theres just no culture. Could be hearsay but my boy who works in consumer told me that no one even really talks, they all just use a complex set of hand signals and grunts
can confirm 100%. no culture in some groups lmao
Sounds like beach volleyball
Culture varies greatly between groups. It’s really dumb to classify a whole bank with hundreds of employees as “bad culture”. It’s like saying everyone that goes to MIT is a math genius. Might be some generalities, but they are huge institutions.
That said, a few observations:
I used to work at Wells and overall I thought the people were great. I’m at an “EB” now and there’s a huge difference.
Read the first point—pretty dumb to say an entire org has bad culture. I don’t doubt at all that you had a great experience. That said, I have numerous people I know who left wells who would strongly disagree with you. I think the overarching point is many people are pining to lateral from that org and it’s rep can create feelings of insecurity and people that are unhappy.
BofA generally has a sweet culture. Very laid-back peeps. Think Charlotte southern niceness mixed in with NYC hustle and grit. But some groups are wayy better than others.
Can you speak to which groups are better?
I would say FSG and TMT (NYC moreso than Palo Alto) groups have very superb cultures with decent WLB for banking standards. REGL as well but it is a massive sweatshop. HC is rumored to be have one of the least attractive cultures but I can't speak to it directly. The others seem to be somewhere inbetween.
What IB groups are still in CLT?
...
I bet most banks will be mentioned here. And those not mentioned are either too small and nobody works there or are so bad that people there don't have time for WSO.
Citi & JPM probably have the two most toxic “cultures” on the street
Avoid!
why jpm ? care to elaborate?
JPM.
Some insights about JPM / MS in London?
Barclays is unironically the greatest BB to be at, relative to culture
Insight into Roths NYC?
Have friends there and have really only heard good things. Get worked sometimes but very chill other times. Never heard any complaints about mean/rude people or anything like that.
everyone ive spoken to there seems to like it, had multiple networking calls and everyone sounds pretty happy that they ended up there. us ceo has lunch w/ the interns during the summer
Citi industrials has a good culture.
Citi's media and comms has a terrible culture.
Houlihan Lokey has some chill people (CF, can't speak on RX).
JPM is an L-machine across the board.
Carlyle has an amazing culture.
Apollo and KKR have terrible culture.
GS is super group dependent.
How's cs
Can't speak to the culture at CS - only know one person there and they are not in IB (but they were a bozo though). Haven't heard horror stories or amazing things.
how do you know about culture at KKR and apollo?
Because I know 5 people at each of them. I also went through the process at KKR. Apollo works a lot with my firm as well.
Heard Nomura Greentech NYC is awful
Can confirm
Do they even see that much deal flow?
not a BB by any stretch but for fucks sake dont ever work at Standard Chartered.
where do i begin....shit pay for juniors, shit learning, shit culture, shit dealflow/volume, seniors often are poached over from BBs to just coast and do fuck all and collect their 30% bumped paychecks, genuinely retarded people who don't wanna take ownership and loads of politics...im lucky i got out soon. I was appalled everyday by the ignorance and lack of standards, having come from a BB. "here for good" is a known joke in the industry as people who stay beyond a few years find it hard to move to anywhere good.
Why is everyone mentioning JPM?
Because JPM is an L-machine. People ride the dick of the balance sheet and Jamie Diamond way too much. Everyone acts like they are on par with GS/MS but they are def not (at least at the analyst level).
What the fuck does this even mean, lol. Why would an intern have any insight into this whatsoever. On what basis are you backing up that statement?
I agree my Dad was an MD there and quit 5 years ago. He was really upset about how the bank was trending culturally over time and in trading (he said they're pussies that no longer take risk)
curious too lol. incoming ft analyst at jpm and these comments are making me worried ngl. but nobody has been specific about whats "bad" about the culture
Probably the 5 day in the office push
I think the hours are generally pretty brutal across the board, no? Obviously a great bank but have heard from friends that they work very hard.
BMO NY
FIG
All of them but especially FIG, PUI, Lev Fin, ECM.
BMO NY is pretty bad, culture-wise. Only group that I've heard having a strong culture is Industrials. HC, LF, PU&I are all pretty bad.
Heard PWP has one of the best culture amongst EBs across its offices in the US.
I think this is probably true that out of the EBs PWP probably has more chill people. But their hours are just as bad (I know that hours doesn’t equal culture, but WLB can definitely be a proxy), I know a friend their who just got absolutely destroyed.
This is absolutely wrong
Can you share your take on this? What you think would provide an accurate picture of working at PWP? Interested in learning more about PWP.
Thoughts on HL?
bump for thoughts on HL RX and HL CF
The HC group is one of the worst places out there from what I’ve heard. Have had a lot of turnover even before COVID, got worse during it, and is still bad.
Why is everybody shiting on Citi? It's still got you a BB brand name and I'd imagine bonus is at least >50% of your base salary, no?
Comp and BB status != Culture
Well, plenty of people would take the comp and BB brand name so what you are saying can sound like humble brag.
My input is dated (analyst stint a number of years ago) but a strong contender for worst has to be Moelis. Had a noticeably more toxic experience than peers at other IB’s; excessive workload even by IB standards, insufficient analyst to MD ratio, lack of consideration for even the slightest bit of personal time, mid to senior level people that did nothing but work 7 days/wk, etc. Seems like a clear one to avoid if you want to be a career banker - it’s a marathon not a sprint.
BMO Metals & Mining Toronto
Anyone have an update on Piper Sandler? There are some brutal threads from a few years ago... has there been any improvement?
Surprised with how good my group's culture is out of NY. At times we have to grind - this is banking after all - but the group I'm in has no AHs and is generally respectful of protected Saturdays (Friday 8pm - Sunday morning). Like any bank though, culture is often group by group and seems I've just lucked out.
may I ask what group you are?
How is the culture at Barclays?
Trying not to shill, but in the vast majority of groups we really have a great culture relative to our peer BB's. If you get a role in FinSpon, LevFin, Industrials, etc. you are chilling. Healthcare and Consumer have great deal flow but are busier. Tech has improved A LOT over the past 5-10 years. All regional offices are good cultures (Chi/ATL/SF/MLP/LA)
On the flip side we will never be top of street on pay, we strive to be in-line with peers though. We are hybrid (3 days/wk in office), I doubt we ever go to 5 days a week like GS, or at least I would personally vocally oppose that.
Echoing this, but would also say that while tech and industrials are great groups they are notorious for working long hours.
Definitely not too reputation or pay, but if you get into the right group you can easily exit to a MF while having a *relatively* chill banking experience.
Disagree about "chilling" in LF. Definitely less hours compared to most coverage groups but the deal flow is quite strong and the hours put in are pretty long day in and day out, compared to the rest of the products groups.
Hi- not sure you'll see this, but it is worth a shot. I am really hoping to learn more about Barclays and would love to ask some questions over email or a phone call if you could DM my profile since it doesn't allow me to message you
Heard Citi's ECM/DCM folks--mostly--don't have sharp elbows. Can anyone confirm?
Sorry what does that mean? I may have some blunt elbows as well.
A year or two ago there was a thread on which banks have protected Saturdays, and a Moelis analyst chimed in saying they had protected bathroom breaks. I almost choked on my coffee
I don’t understand these “culture” questions. People need to define what they mean by culture. Is it work / life balance bc there is none in investment banking when you’re an analyst. Is it my superiors won’t cuss me out when I mess up, bc that is a fair question and you can find banks/groups like that.
But if you’re looking for a group where you’ll work 60 hours a week, do billion dollar deals, coast into a VP role or PE job, people will pick up your work when you’re on vacation, and you’re allowed to use all your vacation then you’re in the wrong field.
Investment banking culture is work. Need to find another field if you aren’t ok with that and that’s ok. You’re paid 2x the average starting salary to work 2x the hours. You have no skill set yet someone is willing to pay a starting salary that is ~$40k above what the average American makes.
Underrated comment. A lot of banks have people that like to think they’re not assholes / will buy you drinks at happy hour, but will happily punt you something to do on a Saturday. If that’s “culture” then sure, but to me it’s all the same. You’ll probably be grinding and therefore fairly miserable wherever.
We found the hardo who requires analysts to do wee hours for useless shit.
Culture to me is people respecting time off unless urgent, not being pushy for the sake of it, respecting protected Saturday whenever possible and not micromanaging.
Worked at a BB where VP and above asked me to do useless stuff on weekends, pushing with fake deadlines and calling me in the middle of the night with random staffing and that is to me a terrible culture. If you call me on a Saturday morning and ask me to update an internal pipeline slide for a meeting that I found out happens to be in 5 days you better not show up in the office on Monday.
That’s why I gtfo that team and now at EB where life is more respected
Bad culture isn’t any of the hours or time spent.
It’s a VP copy and pasting the same chase message into chat over and over again for 30 min until you respond so that you can write an email for them to another VP in a different group to ask about something they’ve already discussed before on the phone, because the VP would rather it appear you are pushy then they are. It’s getting a 70 comment bomb at 2 in the morning with simple text edits for non-live work due in a couple weeks and then getting a phone call follow up to walkthrough each text edit one by one for an hour before being told at 3am “let’s try and do this quickly to make this an early night.” It’s when an MD sits on a draft deck for 2 weeks until 6pm the day before the meeting and then sends of a markup with 10 new creates and brand new, nasty math just because they like the feeling it gives them to do that. It’s being scolded that you’re not responding fast enough because you were on the phone and let 10min go by before you were able to reply to their email with “confirming receipt, will do!”
If you think this is fake, then congratulations, your not in a group with a bad culture.
BofA Palo Alto has turned into a shit hole with shit people over the last year
What happened?? :(
Think their heavy hitters went to CVP
Surprised I haven’t seen GS here yet
They are too swamped with work they don't have time
Definitive list of banks with bad cultures:
Just the main ones
I’ve heard Moellis LA is amazing
lol
/
which groups?
I had an interviewer in a JEF Houston Superday tell me straight up that the culture is “unforgiving”
Relatable lol. Most of the JEF houston guys I talk to sound super dead.
That's the nature of all the top banks in Houston lol. Sounding super dead doesn't necessarily mean bad culture - it could just be that you caught them at a bad time. Sure, the WLB is shit at JEF Houston but Bad WLB =/= Bad Culture. Someone mentioned it correctly above - if bad wlb is equated with bad culture then almost every group will be one with bad culture. The people at JEF Houston are more nerdy (given the focus of the group) which imo is a very happy difference compared to so many other groups on the street. In fact, the midstream has a very good semblance of WLB (I know this sounds crazy but trust me on this one). Its upstream where shit gets a little (a lot) hectic. But the group, unlike other similar groups, knows this and is hiring actively and also more than fairly compensates the team monetarily. There's a reason why the group has far less turnover than say the other super sweaty HOU banks. Any energy bank with the best deal flow will have some very tired people (Citi/GS/RBC etc.) because in energy more so than the others the top guys control such a large market share. Sure, will you run into a super tired BofA/UBS HOU banker? no. Would you want to work there? also no.
Citi SG is pretty shit.
Heard Lazard Paris/Frankfurt is horrendous as well, need confirmation on this.
LOL are u singaporean? pls elaborate on the citi shade!!
No I'm not, but my friend did a SA stint there, it was miserable, he did end up returning as A1 (couldn't have any other offer from other BBs) to do full time for a few more months, but then couldn't put up with the shitty culture, to the point he got suicidal, so he decided to quit.
Almost any EB/BB office in Frankfurt is sweaty. GS/JP/MS 4AM for 7 days.
how's Blackstone?
JPM (no doubt). My roommate is in a coverage group there, and they are tracking attendance each day (can tell from when you scan into the building what time you enter and leave).
Heard bonus and staffing will be affected by attendance as well lmao. Seems insanely toxic.
wtf can anyone confirm if this is true..if so, it really sounds toxic (incoming ft analyst at jpm)
2 days minimum. Stop spreading lies. Culture isn’t bad, all of all complaining just aren’t cut for IB
Simp
As someone who works at JPM, you're completely wrong (or that's just your group) and can confirm that above poster is correct. my coverage group is requiring 5x a week and is tracking attendance each week.
How is Barclays NYC culture?
Do you have a specific group in mind? Would say that generally speaking it is very good, there is a reason why people say it is the best culture BB.
I think the facetime culture is less existent in many groups, which means you work fewer hours in general than other banks. Also the seniors generally are good about not making you stay up to turn comments for no reason, Saturdays are protected, and you can take protected vacations.
You get paid on par with the other upper/mid-tier BBs, not as good brand name, but there are some really strong groups that will allow you to exit to whatever you want after (i.e. MF PE).
Are you an analyst at Barclays? Is there anyway I can email you some questions I have?
Any thoughts on credit suisse
Thoughts on Evercore? How does it compare to other EBs and how group dependent is culture?
In the EB world, Lazard and Evercore are well known to be the two sweatiest shops. Strong exits, but you earn it
All of them
JPM
Any thoughts on Greenhill? Their analyst class is pretty lean so hopefully someone with insights can chime in
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