Anyone know of any firms or groups with fairly easy hours at associate and VP levels? I'm assuming there are some tier 3 and 4 banks with groups that aren't too bad. I imagine comp is a bit lower, but probably not by an enormous amount.
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I think you'll hardly find banks with "easy" hours, especially not at Associate level (and it's a myth that VPs have easy hours) - you should focus your search on local boutiques.
You can't say you wanna do banking without putting in the effort that comes with it, by the way.
This.
If you are looking for easy hours, stay the fuck out of IB. I'm saying this as a friend, and someone with experience.
My first IB gig was easy hours. About 60-65 hours a week. But, when that deal comes through at 4:00pm on a friday, you learn quickly you're in banking. All materials need to be done by Monday morning, which really means you need to be done with your part by Saturday night at the latest to go through the VP/MD approval chain. Boom - just like that, all nighter mode.
I have had easy 50 hour weeks. I have had grueling 90 hour weeks. But the unpredictability makes the hours in IB stressful, not necessarily the hours by itself.
So - if you aren't even at the associate level and asking what firms have easier hours, trust me when I tell you that you should reconsider IB (and corporate banking for that matter).
Grade: F You’re not answering the question. I was asking for the banks that tend to have fewer average hours per week. My IB experience is at BBs, with my current group being one of the hardest working groups in the company. What you described is not news to me.
"Anyone know of any firms or groups with fairly easy hours at associate and VP levels? I'm assuming there are some tier 3 and 4 banks with groups that aren't too bad. I imagine comp is a bit lower, but probably not by an enormous amount."
You're asking about fairly easy hours. So no, you did not ask which banks tend to have fewer average hours per week.
I don't give 2 fucks where you used to work; simply added to the discussion.
lol Grade F for free advice on a question you asked? Hold this monkey shit
The points Goldmansak outline indicate that the easiest hours would come from banks that don't get solid deals. The solution for easy hours is to go work for a shitty bank no?
b
VP's have easy hours compared to analysts.
Associates have easier hours than Analysts as well...still their WLB equals 0 at (most) banks.
Don't know about your bank, but my VP's leave around 10 on normal days.
You'd say that's easy hours compared to analysts, indeed, but compared to other jobs that's not even close to being easy - don't see the point in comparing VPs to Analysts.
Banking and easy hours don't go together. Especially at boutiques, where you'll generally have more responsibility due to smaller team sizes.
Also, at VP+ levels, the hours don't get any significant reduction, the work just becomes more client facing.
Group dependent as well, not just bank. Think DCM, securitization, etc.
I pull about 55-60 on a normal/not busy week, but on a busy week like this, probably end up hitting 75.
I really believe that is as easy as it gets. Comp is within banking range. 1st year analyst and nearly pulling 100k. bonuses should prob be around 40
Those are your hours in an M&A group? At a MM or BB? They seem not crazy at all.
I've heard some product groups (ECM, DCM, etc.) have somewhat better hours because they work on lots of different tasks that MDs and higher ups won't demand at 2 or 3 in the morning.
I'm in structured finance (product group). MM bank, though they are top tier asian bank in their country.
It's really really group/bank dependent, but the senior bankers in my group are some of the most down-to-earth, hard working, and emotionally aware people I've ever worked with. The MD really lays down a come early, leave early approach.
When I do push 1ams, my director is here with me checking my work and providing any input I need. Speaks volumes to a lowly analyst. Review time an ED apparently wrote an essay for each person to the MD.
I mean, in my mind I'm still thinking about the sexier IB groups, and maybe eventually PE/HF, but why should I if the bonuses end up being decent? All the senior bankers have kids that go to private schools, eat out whenever, and go on bomb ass vacations. Seems great for 50-60 hours of hard work
I should have said “relatively” easy. When you’re working rough banking hours, each incremental hour worked / not worked makes a difference in your quality of life. At my BB, I agree that some of the product groups like DCM work manageable hours and are compensated quite well.
Public finance tends to be chill. I’d look at regional banks securities arms, I was at one as an associate hours were generally less than 65 a week. However, some are sweatshops.
According to WSO latest IB survey
Credit Suisse, Wells Fargo, and SunTrust Robinson Humphrey had the best Work-Life Balance
wow finally an answer to the dude's actual question. Funny how a straightforward question about relative work-life balance turns into a "who works the hardest" cock measuring contest.
this
Credit Agricole. Friend is a FT analyst and is frequently working CB hours (9-5/6)
Unfortunately if those are your hours in IB it means you're not getting any decent deal experience.
Not necessarily true. Aside from very busy periods where many deals are running almost parallel in the sales process, I typically work 9-7 (lunch hour not included). My team will likely end up closing 10-15 deals this year, and I will have significant touches (e.g., creating entire CIMs) on approximately 1/3 of them; will likely have slightly less significant touches on another 1/3. Not sure what you would classify as "decent deal experience," but I'm perfectly happy with what I'm able to contribute and learn.
Maintaining team cohesiveness and superb efficiency at all times are two elements that are unfortunately lost upon many banks, it seems.
Thank you for the comments on Credit Agricole. Very helpful. WF and CS are quite rough in some groups from what I hear.
You're welcome. I am sorry I should have specified that I do not know enough about VP hours to comment, although associate hours should be similar to IB. My friend just was promoted to Associate and is moving to NYC (was in a T2 city prior). Happy to ask him how things are going if you like.
coworker who was there for 2 years absolutely hated it. Apparently they're socialists and bonuses are consistent regardless of performance/revenue
Also from what I have heard (admittedly not directly from my A1 friend) they do not promote Americans - even in the US offices. Yes, you can make it to Associate II, but mobility beyond that is extremely restricted. To piggyback off of MMBanker14's comment, idk when I have heard about them closing a deal. Lastly, it is noteworthy that my friend is CHI based not NYC.
Lol how is this even possible? The leave out uncompleted deals?
I am not knowledgable enough to answer, but if you research CA and their upward mobility amongst non-French employees, you will see what I mean. If I recall correctly, I found 3-4 different sites that all reiterated the same issue
i bet OP thinks he can do a better job pitching to F500 CEOs than MDs.
easy hours ? move to Europe ? or Tahiti ?
Where is this easy hour coming from? I am still working at least 70-80 hours per week. I tried boutiques, bbs, family offices, and corporates in China, New York, and Southeast Asia for the last 12 years.
Keybanc
VP here. Hours are still long, but I'm definitely able to get out earlier and plug in / work from home easier.
Put in the work and hours just like everyone else for a year/two and then leverage out to something else. If you're thinking about the hours, then you should ask yourself why ibanking again. Not trying to be harsh like everyone else but this is your realty check
Look at investment banks that focus more on leverage finance vs. m&a (think STRH, Key Bank, etc). Your "experience" won't be as strong because you'll work on fewer sell-side M&A - but you'll likely average 60-70 hours throughtout your analyst stint and enjoy a much better work/life balance while getting paid well
Look at Canadian banks. Also look at middle market banks in their ECM groups. Non M&A product groups can have pretty cushy hours if you find the right group at the right bank. In general groups that work "market hours" or are aligned with the trading day have a more consistent working schedule.
Yeah.. it's called the back office, kid. Y'know, back as in where no one can see you... because you're ugly.
Lol +1
I know Rothschild Eastern-European coverage team works 50-60h a week in London. They also get half the bonuses...
Market - in at 7 out at 6 Consistent 55 hours work week
Moelis
LMFAO
Oh, I see what you did there . . .
May I suggest your local retail bank?
Lehman Brothers is a pretty chill place from what I've read. I've also heard great things about Bear Stearns and Stratton Oakmont.
Yes, but the fit interview is a killer, making you sell pencils and shit . . .
Stephens, Regions Bank, STRH, Union Bank, BB&T Capital Markets, KeyBank CapitalMarkets, Duff & Phelps, BMO, Mizuho
I know of someone who networked with the Stephens Little Rock team and they said its brutal..... 90+ every week
I would work 90+ hours if I lived in Little Rock as well. What else is there to do?
Also, for reference, Little Rock is Stephens' HQ.
Don't know where ur getting Mizuho from. I heard their SF group are working like animals. Besides that, had a friend that said some at keybanc were working like 50 hrs lol
Top BB in London. Have worked with VPs from sector teams leaving at 8/9pm and with others (again sector team) who work until 11+. And then there's the absolute legend of a VP (made ED now) who is constantly flat out, runs 5/6 executions + any BD and works more than the avg. analyst. So overall, it varies a lot even for VPs
Evercore hours are a joke, especially if you’re a woman.
Source: 3 years at EVR
Storytime?
You want to add to that?
There’s not really a ton to add. Hours are fantastic in general — the 9PM comment below is accurate, at least pre-COVID — and given the intense C-level focus on diversity (specifically, gender parity) groups tend to give a little more slack to attract / retain female talent. Having a high level of female attrition is a great way to attract the ire of Roger, Ralph, and John.
The (woman-heavy) generalist group is essentially a part-time job.
This is the second time I’ve seen a comment like this about Evercore on here. The other said something about how the office is “empty after 9pm” or something to that effect. Really surprised to hear this. Is it really that relaxed?
Can’t comment post-COVID, but was definitely the case prior to March 2020.
Go into corporate banking or commercial banking instead. You’ll be a bigger fish in a smaller pond and work way less hours. Could spend 5-10 years in banking instead of 2 that way. Longevity.
I've heard FT Partners is THE lifestyle boutique
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