BB vs EB a comparison between US and Europe
I've read in several threads that people would generally rather work in an EB than a BB - due to the higher pay, better hours, and arguably the same exit opportunities. I also read in an outdated thread that this only applies to the US, as in Europe BBs are considered much more prestigious than EBs.
Since I have the opportunity to do an off-cycle internship at both JPM and Evercore, I would like to hear your opinion on this. Also, it is not possible to do both internships as I have already line up internships at PE funds afterwards
Looking forwards to your thoughts
Also if possible please share details on London and Frankfurt too.
Hi nonameno, check out these links:
More suggestions...
I hope those threads give you a bit more insight.
As you alluded to, it's almost a no-brainer to pick (at least between your options of Evercore vs JPM) Evercore over JPM in the case of the US for many reasons like prestige, pay, culture, exit, perception, etc (many threads already on this).
Context in Europe is slightly different to that of the US, but not because Evercore or the likes of top EBs/ Independent Advisories are less "prestigious" than the top BBs (GS and MS - not sure if I'd include JPM in the same tier to be honest). Evercore and other US EBs have significantly shorter history in the region and therefore have smaller presence than the traditional BBs. What matters more imo is the trajectory and growth of firms, and it is undeniably true that the top EBs have been rising through the M&A league table in Europe for the past decade. My $0.02 is that the M&A landscape in Europe will follow that of the US in the near to mid future with EBs taking a significantly larger chunk of the business.
Obviously there are more ex-GS/MS/JPM folks in buyside in London for this reason, but that's not to say that you can't exit to top shops from Evercore London. I know from first-hand experience that the London headhunters don't give discount to your experience because you were at a top EB; you will get the same looks as long as you have solid deal experience under your belt.
I'd say go with the firm where you've vibed better with people and met senior guys that you respect more. Also, ppl say that pay isn't important, but once you actually start working full time, getting paid significantly less than your friends while putting in the same hours fucking sucks.
Thank you for your feedback.
I have to say that I always thought that independent advisories have less prestige in Europe and therefore have smaller deals and are further down in the lead tables. This also explained to me that in absolute terms they place much less people in PE than BB's.
However, I am glad to hear that this is not the case and that the smaller placement is instead due to the shorter history (and accordingly smaller analyst class).
Thanks again.
But can you please maybe also briefly help me on the following question:
How important is the location and office size.
If I get an internship at a better bank but for a small office and at the same time an offer for a worse bank but in a bigger office -> should I go to the worse bank in this case?
Yeah, wouldn't label it as being less prestigious. It's a matter of awareness and the general level of business dev due to longevity of the brand specifically in the region. Honestly all banks (and I mean all, including the largest banks) work on mid-market deals today, and while the likes of Evercore/Laz in Europe may close more of them on a % basis, they work on some of the largest deals (eg AstraZeneca - Alexion, led by Evercore & Centerview) as well. Can't be not "prestigious" and close some of the most high profile deals.
As for the location/ office size, it is important to a degree, but extremely case-by-case dependent. Ideally, you do want to be at the center - whether that's NY or London - assuming that everything is in person (if WFH, I don't think it matters as much), which obviously depends on where you want to recruit for buyside or other exit options. I'd be more curious about your specific group in this case as well, but in general, I gravitate toward choosing the right firm, as long as the location is not completely off. Frankfurt is fine - I'd be nervous if it were Dubai or smaller European offices.
A no-brainer IMO!
Take JPM and don't look back. Yes, Evercore is a solid shop but JPM is just ahead of it. I'm at a US BB and we never see them on a bake-off tbh. Not hating at all on Evercore (good friend is there and loves it) but buy-side recruiting and also brand outside of finance is just better at JP. Ever is still a bit more mid-market, so go for that if you like it (subjective!!!!). JP conversion rate is ridiculously high as well. They have the largest analyst class.
Lots of great teams at JP like DI (toooooooons of Germans like you I assume?), T, M&T, etc. that have a history of placing insanely really well.
If u wanna have a bit more granularity happy to shoot you a DM :)
Enjoy easter!
Bump
I would say for a near term exit, JPM. For a long stay, depends on team but probably evercore based on hours and pay. Bear in mind that anyways, you’ll easily be able to go from one shop to the other as lateral.
Another think to bear in mind is that people will know JPM everywhere, not the case for Evercore. I work at another US EBs and none of my friends (that are not in IB) know much more about my firm than its name (actually few of my non finance friends even know the name). So if you plan on entrepreneurship or corporates, JPM probably best.
Take JPM if you want to jump to PE - larger network and a history of people going to megafunds. Though note I've heard stories about how their analysts can't model e.g. a girl at an interview didn't know how to use SUMIFS and just selected all the cells she wanted to sum up manually.
Take Evercore London if you want to learn a lot + be thrown into the deep end. People are also pretty cool (at least those I know). You get to work on some cool deals as well.
Think Evercore Frankfurt works people hard. One of their analysts left for Arma and the other left for JPM London.
Given that it is just an off-cycle, would recommend you do it at Evercore to learn -> go to a US BB for a summer (and crush everyone there)
It depends, while in the US EB have a very strong position, in Europe, generally, the only EB that are often taken over BB are Lazard and Rothschild (which are probably as strong as GS/MS/JPM)
Therefore, if in the US indifferent between Evercore / JPM; if in Europe take JPM
Would definitely not go to Roth/Laz over JPM even in Europe. However they do stack up against lower tier BBs like Citi, Barclays, CS etc
nonameno may I pm you ?
Sure
EBs definitely do not have better hours than BBs, EB hours are far worse due to the focus on M&A and less politics surrounding work life balance e.g. BBs now have to implement work life balance measures like protected weekends but EBs don't have this.
They have to implement these policies because they don't treat you like a human being but as a cog. EBs treat you like a human being.
EBs have these policies as well...
Thank you all.
I talked to both teams again and ran your ideas through my head. In the end, I finally decided to go with Evercore in FFM for the following reasons.
1) The internship is off cycle (Q3/Q4 21)and I am still in university for 2 years. So I can still do SA at a BB next year and go on conversion.
2) The team in FFM is small and you often work with different offices (Asia, US and Europe) and also as an intern you have to deal with all locations - I think that is super interesting.
3) Most important to me is the analyst to intern ratio (1:1). Since every analyst gets his own intern, you work very intensively on a deal. I have heard from friends at other banks that they often worked on +10 deals in 10 weeks. In FFM, on the other hand, I will spend over 90% of my time on about 2-3 deals and get more responsibility than in other internships.
In summary, I see the internship primarily as an opportunity to gain experience. I can still do SA next year and therefore the brand name is not the most important thing. Furthermore, I think that an INternship at both Evercore and JPM will get me into the 1st round at most banks.
Looking forward to you joining.
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