Best IB to be a VP?
I actually like being in IB, which bank would be best to be a VP and above? Mainly hoping for good work life balance and street pay.
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Aspiring career banker who made the jump from a BB to MM. I’d argue that MMs and boutiques lend themselves to better experiences for a career in banking from what I’ve observed. Far less bureaucracy and office politics, and generally better compensation than BBs. Also, the leaner experience and deal teams is definitely beneficial to developing the skills needed for a career in banking, as so far I’ve gotten far more opportunities to lead calls with clients as an Associate at the MM than as an associate at my prior BB, and for some clients I’ve already been appointed as the secondary coverage officer, which is naturally how client relationships develop over time as I continue to get promoted and the VP of Corp Dev that I hold the relationship with also gets promoted or laterals to another firm. Also, the work itself (primarily MM and UMM sell-side) tends to lend itself better to a career in advisory, which is what I’m interested in, as I don’t have to care about the BS Corp banking stuff that I would have to also do at a BB (talk about pension plans with the client, etc).
Would you argue that I should spent fees years at a EB or BB to build my brand? Obviously credibility and perception plays a big role in landing clients.
I lateraled from GS/JPM/MS to a HL/Blair/Baird group that’s known as the top MM group in the space, and just from my experience, I’d argue no. Banking is a relationship-driven business above all, and contrary to what’s on this forum sometimes, you don’t just suddenly transform from execution to relationship-making when you get the SVP/Director promote. Rather, you build relationship through interfacing with clients at the junior levels and keep those relationships as you go up. For example, right now I’m close with several VP of Corp Dev-level people at client firms, and how banking works is as they get promoted or switch firms, we keep our relationships going, and eventually when I’m MD down the line and they’re at a more senior role at the same firm or another firm I’d have a strong relationship with them and can leverage that to win their firm’s business. On that front, I’ve gotten far more client exposure at the MM than the BB, and I’d argue that’s been far more important towards developing my career in banking than my BB’s name.
Will emphasize this with what I’ve seen at my top MM. Currently tons of VPs/Ds and some MDs who started as analysts and associates here and are now killing it.
The model is that, because of smaller deal size, you get strong client relationships at the junior level. As an analyst, I’ve developed plenty of great relationships with clients (PE associates, VPs of finance, etc as well as some execs) and you see how those relationships can evolve. I have VPs now that have clients they worked with as analysts/associates that are now in key decision making roles (maybe it’s a PE associate who is now a principle, or the VP of finance is now CFO of another similar company, etc) and they’re able to bring in business as a VP based on those relationships.
Also, the platform flexibility is great for climbing the ranks. Obviously it’s easier to win a $200M mandate then a $2B mandate, and especially for younger senior bankers, they can start revenue generation by focusing on smaller deals. Those deals build their credibility and also eventually become repeat business down the road (typically at a higher EV) because so much of the work here is dealing with sponsors with a 3-5 year hold. One of my MDs now has done 5 mandates for a single company over his career, starting with a $100M growth deal ~10 years ago and most recently selling to a strategic for ~3B. I’d imagine this is a whole lot easier to do vs coming in at an EB and being expected to win a billion dollar mandate right away
Uh, thats gonna be no from me dawg
anytime someone says "LEAN DEAL TEAMS" means you are getting cranked hard
Honestly - a good regional. VPs there work 30 - 50 hour weeks and still end up in the low 400's. It's a very good life.
Regional boutique or regional/midsize commercial banks that have advisory arms?
it really depends what you want.
I agree on everything the post says above about the UMM firms which can be great places fo4 a career but you are genuinely specializing yourself. Not a bad thing per se, but that may be limiting for some, Also many bankers at those platforms (and the independent advisory firms) don’t know the first thing about financing which is also limiting. But they are good places to be real bankers.
Bulge bracket firms treat you like cattle, and are not particularly edifying comp wise. And most juniors are useless formatting gophers but over time you can learn so much. It’s also a great place to pick up a book of business because of the resource available to you. Advancement is nuch more about being effective in a corporate setting than being a good banker but that works for some.
what I wouldn’t do is join an independent advisory firm unless you are a very established rainmaker. Once in a blue moon people grow up on the platform and are very successful but it’s rare. Obviously you can learn a ton as an analyst and associate but that vast majority of people hit a wall above that
I concur with what you said and I guess I should caveat my answer above with an asterisk on boutique. From my observations and from what I’ve heard from friends, certain boutiques (specifically Moelis and Lazard) tend to lend themselves better to career development, largely because the seniors are given a lot more flexibility on what deals they want to pursue (which is why Moelis and Lazard have definitely developed reputations as more “volume shops” among the independent advisory firms), which flows down to the junior level and allows mid-and-junior level bakers to also develop more relationships and broadens their potential relationship base and coverage universe as well. The independents that tend to be a bit more “selective” with the mandates they pursue (PWP, PJT, CVP in particular) tend to be places that heavily focus more on poaching established seniors with entrenched, selective relationships and tend to not be places that imo provides junior bankers with as good of a runway for a career in banking.
In that case, if I still want to have some sort of work life balance. Then, I’m assuming places like WF or Truist could be great place to be?
I know none of my peers at those shops who are happy (especially those that came from wlb).
At those shops, you have to pitch your balance sheet all the time and hope for scraps. Not good for senior wlb.
the best way to have work life balance as a senior is to be good enough at what you do that you make enough revenue /have good enough relationships that you have the resource at your disposal. But even if you are not at that point in your life, the people with the best wlb are the ones most capable and efficient
Good bankers have the best wlb. Focus on being good.
I know you had said IB and I agree with some of the other posts that MM over BB. I am a VP in PE and I would say PE at the VP level + due to the carried interest that you can't get in banking. If you grind it out 5-10 years in PE, you will significantly out earn your banking peers.
My understanding is that it’s much harder to move above VP level at PE than it is in banking.
It is significantly harder to get to Principal or VP in PE vs VP/Director in IBD. That being said there are only a few places to make 7 figures at a VP level PE, GS, maybe if you're really talented at MS but that's really it. So yes it's significantly harder but that's why the comp is so significant.
Thanks for the flex?
BBs will always be the best, at every level of seniority, when it comes to building up your network. You will come into contact with the highest quantity of clients of the highest quality. You will also come into contact with the highest quantity of coworkers/colleagues/buyside accounts of the highest quality. You can also sway pitches in your favor based on brand name alone.
Given that as a senior banker your job is essentially to monetize your network by originating transactions, there is an advantage to having a BB network and namebrand. In fact, a huge one. I don't think WLB as an MD necessarily is better at the MM level. A lot of MM MDs really have to pound pavement and get creative/aggressive to try and originate new deals, constantly pitching, in order to make up for the fact that they don't have as large of an organic network surrounding them.
In synopsis, working at a BB as an MD gives the you most supporting resources, the biggest network, the most "prestigious" brand recognition behind the service you're selling AND the most diverse range of product offerings to pitch to your clients.
All of this is coming from an Associate II at a LMM. WLB is not good, across the board, despite us having lower deal flow than the UMM / BB firms. We constantly are pitching and/or exploring new businesses with super low probabilities of getting engaged. Especially our younger MDs who have worked here forever, those dudes throw an insane amount of shit at the wall to try and get 1 or 2 sub $100M deals done a year. I can't imagine established, BB MDs are working that hard to find clients. And if they are, at least those clients will be doing deals worth several hundreds of millions so everyone on the team will get paid better for the work that went into it.
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