Bro culture in the office
Does anyone have any thoughts on bro culture in the office?
How does one who is not part of this subculture adjust?
For context, my parents were immigrants and I’ve always been more intellectual / scholarly in school and therefore do not fit in with the bro culture super well.
I love meeting new people in the office and saying hi, but there are some people in the office, analyst even, who ignore others who are not part of the bro culture. Even though we are coworkers, they won’t even reciprocate a head nod when sharing an elevator. Or at a company happy hour, they can talk amongst each other for minutes and minutes without acknowledging that someone is trying to join the conversation — no eye contact, no greeting at all.
Do these individuals think they are better than those not part of their group — that these “others” are not worth talking to or even acknowledging? I hope this is not the case, but sometimes I can’t help but think this is the case.
And if this is the case, what can one do about it? Thank you all.
repeat comment
>For context, my parents were immigrants and I've always been more intellectual / scholarly in school and therefore do not fit in with the bro culture super well.
This is a cop out, I definitely fall under bro culture a bit (at least the clock app white women would say so) and I read about the Enlightenment, Sylvia Plath and read about world history in my free time. I also know like 10 other dudes like this, so uhhhh idk bout that one. Also I'll do you one better, not just my parents were immigrants, but I myself am an immigrant lol, so this is a faulty excuse.
Thanks — sounds like you’d be really cool to get to know. I’m not trying to “cop out”.
Just trying to figure out a path forward. Is this just in my head?
It might just be cultural bro, I def get what you mean cause in the office sometimes there are people that "out-bro" me so I'll just step away. It's honestly not a great culture and I rather hang out more with people like myself, but the best thing is to just not get involved unless your career is at stake or something, in that case you just kind of have to play pretend. I don't watch any sports for example, so anytime the guys in the office ask me about "the game" I just say "man that's crazy, can't believe [team that won] won, but [team that lost] really looked like they were gonna win in the first half" or something generic. The day after some huge sporting event I just memorize a few names and drop them in convo's and I come out fine. Obviously some sportsball hardo might detect I didn't really watch it, but most people are cool with me. Just play it moderately, but remember, do you really want to be at a party you weren't invited to?
By looking at them as apart of a larger “bro” subculture, you’re already making an in group out group thing for yourself, and you’re probably backlogging some experiences you’ve had with the classic “nerds” vs “bros” horse shit.
Play nice. You’re on the same side. Mimic some of their behaviors in a way that feels authentic to you. If you come off like a know-it-all type, they probably won’t trust you. If you lean in too much, you will come off as desperate.
Just be a homie lol.
>real estate professional
sigh, bruh y'all not bankers and don't get it, go back to checking Zestimates or somethin idk
This is a 10/10 comment and as someone in RE (I make more money than you though, analyst scum) this was hilarious
I love my banker friends, but I’ll take K1s over W2s for as long as I can.
jfc...
just be normal
Wish it were so simple! Kinda weird to say “how’s it going” to a fellow analyst right next to you and have them ignore you and walk away :)
lmao if they actually do this to you never talk to them again and fuck with them any opportunity you have (ensuring no or minimal repercussions)
i bet this is citi. citi definitely is the type of place to have assholes like you described.
No.
Might I add, I absolutely detest sports talk. And for the record I am definitely a "bro." I'm also an intellectual and a patriot. I find it so childish to wrap your mind into a trivial game. I honestly just don't understand it. And I played sports my whole life - travel basketball, football, baseball, lacrosse (all at different points in my childhood through teenage years, some at different parts of the year ofcourse). Playing sports? Love it. Still fun to this day. Watching others play? Who cares. Unless you have money on the outcome, another silly thing men like to engage in. Is it going to solve the U.S. debt problem? Is it going to help broker relations in the Middle East? What the fuck does some baseball game matter? Oh Yankees vs. Boston, let's drink and go find the first Boston fan in New York and tell him to get the fuck outta our city. This shit is ridiculous. I cannot with a straight face wrap my emotion into sports. The best part about it all is the bravado that follows in the conversations about the game the next day. Guys will literally stick their chest out and talk with pride that they somehow "knew" player X was going to perform like that against player Y and that they called it. It's the same shit over and over again. Best part is, 99% of the time these guys are speaking from either repeated things they've heard or just making shit up on the fly. There are no statistical profiles being created with expected levels of output for the players, there's no scenario analysis of the game overall, there's nothing. Now, there are gamblers that do in fact build models on players and matchups. That's now a thing and apparently some guys are good at it. Those are the guys I'd like to speak to, because there's substance there. But fuckin Joe who bangs his chest at happy hour and talks about his packers, I'll pass. Fuck sports talk
*Edit: Sports talk can be used as a bridge for connection between people which is great but there seems to be a societal pull on all of us to devolve our emotions into the game. Some of us are very emotionally involved in our teams which is fine but there seems to be a general air of pressure in our society to be as emotionally involved as others. It is that disingenuous character that sometimes airs itself in a social circle that I detest. I love sports. I dislike the social conformity that surrounds the entertainment of such.
Right? And in work circles, thus far in my experience, sports talk becomes like the "in" of the guy world in the office or on the work team. And everyone tries to almost one up the next on who knows more and you can tell most people don't know a damn thing but just propagate random names and statistics like they do, it's kinda ridiculous. Btw - respect for you goin d1, that’s fresh
For the most part. Same. But I am a big UFC guy
I love the UFC. Dana needs to pay them better!!
I've got Yan, Chimaev, Volk by unanimous decision, r2 TKO, r3 TKO. What are you thinking?
bro ur a chiller
Counter opinion. One of the main reasons why I'm interested in professional sports is because it's probably the closest thing we have in our society to a perfect meritocracy. No matter how many connections an NFL QB has, no matter how prestigious his upbringing was, if he doesn't perform and put up good numbers, he's gone. And just think about how many NBA/NFL players came from inner city poverty only to succeed at their craft through sheer hard work and dedication. The % of pro athletes that come from these kinds of upbringings is much higher than the % of these kinds of people you see in other high paying professions (bankers, law firm partners, Hollywood actors, etc.)
Also, as you mentioned, betting is pretty fun and you can develop cool strategies and models just like with trading.
You are correct. It's fun to watch insanely gifted and dedicated people perform at the highest level. Nothing else has the intensity, drama, and (often multi-decade) storylines of a close game in the last few minutes. I could just as easily say who gives a shit about the US debt problem or warring nations in the Middle East - it'll be the same shit 100 years from now.
About that:
https://www.espn.com/espn/story/_/id/6777581/importance-athlete-backgro…
Idk this is cap IMO. Look at the head coach old boys club / constant carousel of shitty head coaches b/c owners won't hire someone they "don't know." Or about how teams/front offices actively discriminated against Black QBs / white cornerbacks for decades because of preconceived biases.
Sports is much less of a meritocracy than people think IMO.
I agree 1000%. too bad all my friends favorite hobby Is watching sports
Yessssssss, I feel like people who display this obsessive behavior are trying to compensate for something. Nothing wrong with being a fan, but I’m able to relate to others outside of athletics.
It’s amazing for being rated most helpful how much of this post is flawed or wrong.
1) You’re saying that people can’t enjoy things in life because it won’t solve macro issues. You realize that only the C-suite level at banks and high up politicians can do anything about it correct? You can frustrate yourself all day over these issues and write a dissertation on it, but there’s a 99.9999999% chance your work will get lost on the internet somewhere and amount to nothing. Don’t get me wrong I’ll engage in a political discussion or two and think about macro issues but I’m not living in a perpetual state of stress like you are because there’s absolutely nothing I can do about it besides working hard saving money and worst case scenario purchasing a citizenship somewhere else if the country crumbles.
2) Statistical measures and expected output exists for all the major players. My guess is you’ve never played an EA sports game such as Madden or FIFA. There’s a whole community that discusses whether these ratings are accurate or not and how it affects the game. The metrics and measures put out are far more detailed and complex than you realize. The methodology is trade secret but if you want you can always try to do an analysis yourself and see how it plays out.
3) Most guys reason for plays is better than you think. You’re acting incredibly arrogant as if you’re the nerd in the room and everyone is an idiot but if you just listened you’d realize people think about precious games and when calling an outcome
4) Understand that sports and tailgates are meant to be fun. You seem to be upset that your friends aren’t citing statistical models 24/7 or aren’t upset over macro issues - dude people want to have some fun in life and you need to learn to live life a little.
IncomingIBDreject I'll admit, I think I do stress out about the current economic and political landscape, a bit too much. It's not that I'm a pessimist or enjoy thinking about everything wrong in the world but rather I care very much about our future and also find it interesting to think through problems. It's also an outlet for my expression, which is why I enjoy WSO. I enjoy thinking critically and learning, seeing things from different perspectives. What I was trying to get at in that post was that much of the time you hear or are approached by somebody in regards to the latest sporting event, it's usually just very simple minded and assumptive, based in some short circuited excitement. I know there are people out there like @reganomics10 that engage in the probability dynamics of the players in the game, and the substantive matter that everyone gets so excited about on the surface. That's interesting stuff. But for me, the assumptive conversations based in excitement that Judge crushed another home run or that Brady threw a 70 yard touch down, just come across very silly. Maybe I'm too critical of the world and am losing that ability for the simple fun that once existed. I'm not really sure. I think it's just high levels of concern for where the world is headed and a desire to express myself intellectually. Have fun in whatever capacity you'd like, just as long as you're not harming others.
oh yeah because you talking about intellectual things such as politics will totally change what the government will do, sports is a great thing to talk about mainly because it brings people together, let's take an example 2 absolute rich kids working as analysts could talk about wine and 2 other immigrants wouldn't know fuckall, they all could talk about sports though, don't know why you'd be against it, some people just have a passion for it, i like playing more than watching by a mile doesn't mean watching and talking about it isn't fun, sports is also a way to be friendly and have some banter in it, no one will get pissed if you make fun of their team, there's so many jokes that could make someone uncomfortable without you knowing, also taking politics as an example again people having different opinions will/might dislike someone because they have different opinions or might think of them as retarded, sports is absolutely chill and an amazing thing to talk about, especially if you don't know people that well, there's so much you could talk about, how you started supporting the team, favourite game etc
As someone whose obsession with sports is primarily driven by the analytics (and the related gambling side), I find it very hard to have conversations about sports with other bros as it is just me nodding along, pretending to be less knowledgeable than I am, and bottling in the urge to correct their ignorant opinions.
You sound fun
Say fo'shizzle to thy nerd'zzles.
no bitches?
It tends to improve over time, and it helps if you have other hobbies you like to talk about. Or, if not, ask them what they are passionate about outside of the office. People love to talk about themselves, so asking a couple questions and just listening can go a long way in establishing a relationship. Also, be patient... don't have to bog anyone down for a 20 minute conversation, but a couple minutes here and there over the course of weeks / months can go a long way.
It doesn’t matter what other analysts think of you.
That being said, you have to learn to adapt. Finance is still very bro-y and will likely stay that way for at least a little while. Every single person in my group back in IB was in Greek life or social club equivalent. If you can, try to pick up some of the hobbies others do. Who knows, maybe you’ll like them.
Where did you get the idea that bros aren't intellectual? Do you know what kind of cerebral autist it takes to accomplish some of the shit we're into?
Na bro, I am an autist myself but I'm just not intelligent. Those IQ tests they love to talk about in this website, I got 93...
This seems less an issue of “bro” culture versus your colleagues not liking you. What percent don’t talk to you at a happy hour? The only time I’ve seen anything similar is we had a shitty analyst, they got pushed to the periphery.
Shitty how?
It was a combination of bad work product and bad attitude. Talked shit about their fellow analysts behind their backs and just weren’t good at blocking and tackling.
Yeah this isn’t it — sorry but I’ve gotten really solid reviews from all my teams. It’s like 5-7 people out of a 100+ person group.
It’s just some assholes then, I’d ignore them and move on.
I don't know about bro culture, but when I was working in construction I was very, very clearly the in the outgroup with regards to socialization. Everyone I worked with were blue collar backgrounds, rural Virginians, who watched college sports, chugged cheap beer and hunted. I had a white collar background, lived in DC, would spend my time playing golf, reading, and watching independent/foreign films. I don't say this to imply in any way that one lifestyle is better than the other, there are plenty of merits to both, but just to show that there was a stark difference between our cultures, and it had a real impact on my experience working in that industry. I literally got my MBA to avoid working in construction, I had zero social life at work because it was impossible to engage with them on a meaningful level. I'm in development now and my experience has been a complete 180.
Sometimes the group your in just doesn't match your personality or cultural interests, I doubt it's an industry-wide thing (though I haven't yet found any construction guys that align closer to my interests...). Are there other people you can try talking with? There might be a point when it's just not worth your time trying to force some socialization with people who aren't interested, for whatever reason, bro culture or otherwise.
what's wrong with some Busch Lattes, brother?
Absolutely nothing. Just not quite my tempo.
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