Would you care to explain the reason for termination further? You were fired for recording too much overtime?
To answer your questions, they can and will only say you were terminated without details. You can put anything you want on your resume, it is your branding tool. However, for forms where they ask your work experience or background check forms, you will need to include it. They have no reason to sign an NDA.
Frank Sinatra - "Alcohol may be man's worst enemy, but the bible says love your enemy."
Would you care to explain the reason for termination further? You were fired for recording too much overtime?
To answer your questions, they can and will only say you were terminated without details. You can put anything you want on your resume, it is your branding tool. However, for forms where they ask your work experience or background check forms, you will need to include it. They have no reason to sign an NDA.
Is it possible to leave off the experience from my resume so background check agencies don't check it?
Too much overtime? They could have just told you to go home. Were you boozing while logged in?
If this doesn't go on your U4, you are in a pretty good position. If you don't have any licenses, you're in an even better position. "With cause" is a serious red flag but not an automatic dealbreaker. The BB name will carry you into interviews, and you will have to be able to explain this away very VERY well. Get your story down to under 30 seconds, and spin the hell out of how you are better for it...and then keep moving.
If you started there right out of school do you even have anything else on your resume? I think you're better off leaving it on there and then coming up with some toned -downed story/reason as to why you were let go.
If you started there right out of school do you even have anything else on your resume? I think you're better off leaving it on there and then coming up with some toned -downed story/reason as to why you were let go.
I interned at a few places during school. I'm just unsure what a background check can reveal to future employers.
I was laid off during the 2008 financial collapse. My next employer called my previous employer for a background check and my new employer (prospective at the time) asked if it was for cause or not. A new HR person with my previous firm on the other side of the country initially mistakenly said it was for cause--my hiring got blown up for a few days as this was sorted out.
Moral of the story--employers may, in fact, specifically ask if termination was for cause and the employer may, in fact, state yea or nay.
Why exactly did they let you go? It can't be too bad if your manager is offering to be a reference. Anyway, I wouldn't worry too much, people get fired / laid off all the time and bounce back. For the most part all they do with the background check is confirm your employment dates.
Dude, kudos for you for trying to stay in the finance industry. I can shed some light on employer background checks and the variations I’ve seen.
First off, there are different types of background checks and different types of background check vendors will review your background differently. Here are some methods I’ve seen historically:
1) Background check based on aggregated flow of income/debt/living residences. What the background check vendor does is pull your entire cash flow history using your credit lines, bank accounts, social security number, stuff like that. Basically, every time you took a loan, moved to a new city/residence, or got paid by an employer, it will come up in the background check. So based on what I found out when my BB ran a background check on me when I was a lateral hire, is that this background check method is absolutely not thorough and it checked a variety of things like major in college, university grad date, even income I received from the YMCA in high-school. So note to the OP: DO NOT OMIT this work experience from your resume, it will be detected and reported. If the background check vendor called my employer, the employer probably gave the vendor a very generic response and since I came from consulting, HR and the trolls handling background checks had no freaking idea what exactly I did on my project work, so that was easy.
2) The Ultra-Thorough Background Check (used by Goldman Sachs mainly). This I imagine is the most thorough background check I have ever heard of. I have actually heard of someone getting asked to give professor referrals from undergraduate class rank or assignments and SAT scores when the candidate was actually five years out of college. This background vendor is also the most expensive kind for a bank and will call your employer and pull literally everything you can imagine on you and figure things out in a very structured way… Simple reason: Goldman Sachs expects integrity to be the highest of priorities, so the background check is the first obstacle a candidate will need to pass to get the green light on integrity (that’s probably why everyone is so nice and non-technical in the interviews, cause if you’re lying, they will find out for sure).
3) Social Media background check. The next kind is based on all social media vendors which is purchased through online media aggregators (you could even pull a social media background check on your boss, but watch out cause I believe a person is capable of looking up all the people who have pulled social media background checks on each other… pretty awkward if your boss finds out I imagine). So the social media background check will include Facebook, LinkedIn, etc… all that stuff is stored somewhere and guess what, computer geniuses can mine it. I would like to note that I think this background method is not as heavily used as people think. I recently checked the vendor that offers this service and it was like 45 bucks to run a background check on someone for social media… I can’t imagine an employer making an objective decision based on social media background results, but I’m sure it happens.
4) There are probably more types of background checks, but these are some of the ones I’ve actually looked into. Additionally, I believe that getting fired triggers a certain flag on your background and it actually comes up on the summary of the background check (the first page), so just make sure you have this cleared up and a reasonable explanation to back it up.
Still not sure how you managed to score an FT role and get let go for performance in Risk. I understand if this was like a quant strats role, but if it had nothing to do with Coding, I suggest you really up your game in the technicals and computer applications before applying for other roles.
If you were terminated for cause but your manager is still happy to provide a recommendation I would assume it wasn't your infraction wasn't some sort of impropriety (like exaggerating about how many hours you worked to bill for excessive OT, etc).
In terms of leaving the experience off your resume, I don't see why you would do that if it was solid experience. If its a summer internship however, you will be asked about it. They always ask if you got an offer to return, if no then why not, and if yes, then why did you turn it down. If you didn't even finish the internship that will most certainly raise eyebrows and warrant additional scrutiny. BUT I will say that your past employer isn't likely (or possibly even allowed) to disclose the reason why you left/were terminated. In most cases they won't even know you were terminated. The background check consists of confirming that you were employed for the period that you claim to have been employed at that specific firm and sometimes they'll check to make sure it was in the specific capacity you claimed.
And how has your experience been different throughout your career at the Make a Wish Foundation?
On another note, whoever made the original statement you referred to is an idiot. GS (and every other firm out there) does a background check because its standard practice across firms and industries when hiring a candidate. Making sure that the resume/background of the person you're hiring isn't fictitious has nothing to do with integrity, its common sense. If they haven't grilled you on technicals its probably because you haven't done particularly well on the first half of the interview and they don't feel like wasting their time watching you sweat through the technical questions.
Seriously? Goldman Sachs is the poster child for the revolving door between government and Wall Street. It's one of the bigger Wall Street lobbyists on Capitol Hill. They are the poster child for everything that's wrong with the inner power circle of Washington and NYC.
Before you call me some kind of liberal, I'm a conservative Republican, and cronyism is contradictory to the free market. To call GS dedicated to integrity is to call a serial killer dedicated to life.
OP, I think you should tell what happened. We all mistakes - it's OK. Let the more experienced members of the forum help you. And I think people should withhold any moral judgement and try to help this guy out with the best suggestion you can come up with. After all, that's what WSO is about.
You've been getting some pretty bad advice on here. 98 out of 100 people that read your post are in no position to offer you advice, you're better off talking to someone you know well or PM-ing a member you trust. Don't post it for the entire world to see.
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Would you care to explain the reason for termination further? You were fired for recording too much overtime?
To answer your questions, they can and will only say you were terminated without details. You can put anything you want on your resume, it is your branding tool. However, for forms where they ask your work experience or background check forms, you will need to include it. They have no reason to sign an NDA.
Is it possible to leave off the experience from my resume so background check agencies don't check it?
Too much overtime? They could have just told you to go home. Were you boozing while logged in?
If this doesn't go on your U4, you are in a pretty good position. If you don't have any licenses, you're in an even better position. "With cause" is a serious red flag but not an automatic dealbreaker. The BB name will carry you into interviews, and you will have to be able to explain this away very VERY well. Get your story down to under 30 seconds, and spin the hell out of how you are better for it...and then keep moving.
Thanks, UFOinsider.
I don't have any licenses, so that's not a worry.
If you started there right out of school do you even have anything else on your resume? I think you're better off leaving it on there and then coming up with some toned -downed story/reason as to why you were let go.
I interned at a few places during school. I'm just unsure what a background check can reveal to future employers.
Tough situation. best of luck
you still haven't cleared up our question about what you mean by overtime
Sorry accidentally pressed monkey shit
sigh, it's ok...
you got paid for ot as a full time analyst?
take a look at this
http://www.transparentme.com/blog/can-an-employer-verify-my-work-history
I was laid off during the 2008 financial collapse. My next employer called my previous employer for a background check and my new employer (prospective at the time) asked if it was for cause or not. A new HR person with my previous firm on the other side of the country initially mistakenly said it was for cause--my hiring got blown up for a few days as this was sorted out.
Moral of the story--employers may, in fact, specifically ask if termination was for cause and the employer may, in fact, state yea or nay.
Why exactly did they let you go? It can't be too bad if your manager is offering to be a reference. Anyway, I wouldn't worry too much, people get fired / laid off all the time and bounce back. For the most part all they do with the background check is confirm your employment dates.
Dude, kudos for you for trying to stay in the finance industry. I can shed some light on employer background checks and the variations I’ve seen.
First off, there are different types of background checks and different types of background check vendors will review your background differently. Here are some methods I’ve seen historically:
1) Background check based on aggregated flow of income/debt/living residences. What the background check vendor does is pull your entire cash flow history using your credit lines, bank accounts, social security number, stuff like that. Basically, every time you took a loan, moved to a new city/residence, or got paid by an employer, it will come up in the background check. So based on what I found out when my BB ran a background check on me when I was a lateral hire, is that this background check method is absolutely not thorough and it checked a variety of things like major in college, university grad date, even income I received from the YMCA in high-school. So note to the OP: DO NOT OMIT this work experience from your resume, it will be detected and reported. If the background check vendor called my employer, the employer probably gave the vendor a very generic response and since I came from consulting, HR and the trolls handling background checks had no freaking idea what exactly I did on my project work, so that was easy. 2) The Ultra-Thorough Background Check (used by Goldman Sachs mainly). This I imagine is the most thorough background check I have ever heard of. I have actually heard of someone getting asked to give professor referrals from undergraduate class rank or assignments and SAT scores when the candidate was actually five years out of college. This background vendor is also the most expensive kind for a bank and will call your employer and pull literally everything you can imagine on you and figure things out in a very structured way… Simple reason: Goldman Sachs expects integrity to be the highest of priorities, so the background check is the first obstacle a candidate will need to pass to get the green light on integrity (that’s probably why everyone is so nice and non-technical in the interviews, cause if you’re lying, they will find out for sure). 3) Social Media background check. The next kind is based on all social media vendors which is purchased through online media aggregators (you could even pull a social media background check on your boss, but watch out cause I believe a person is capable of looking up all the people who have pulled social media background checks on each other… pretty awkward if your boss finds out I imagine). So the social media background check will include Facebook, LinkedIn, etc… all that stuff is stored somewhere and guess what, computer geniuses can mine it. I would like to note that I think this background method is not as heavily used as people think. I recently checked the vendor that offers this service and it was like 45 bucks to run a background check on someone for social media… I can’t imagine an employer making an objective decision based on social media background results, but I’m sure it happens. 4) There are probably more types of background checks, but these are some of the ones I’ve actually looked into. Additionally, I believe that getting fired triggers a certain flag on your background and it actually comes up on the summary of the background check (the first page), so just make sure you have this cleared up and a reasonable explanation to back it up.
Still not sure how you managed to score an FT role and get let go for performance in Risk. I understand if this was like a quant strats role, but if it had nothing to do with Coding, I suggest you really up your game in the technicals and computer applications before applying for other roles.
If you were terminated for cause but your manager is still happy to provide a recommendation I would assume it wasn't your infraction wasn't some sort of impropriety (like exaggerating about how many hours you worked to bill for excessive OT, etc).
In terms of leaving the experience off your resume, I don't see why you would do that if it was solid experience. If its a summer internship however, you will be asked about it. They always ask if you got an offer to return, if no then why not, and if yes, then why did you turn it down. If you didn't even finish the internship that will most certainly raise eyebrows and warrant additional scrutiny. BUT I will say that your past employer isn't likely (or possibly even allowed) to disclose the reason why you left/were terminated. In most cases they won't even know you were terminated. The background check consists of confirming that you were employed for the period that you claim to have been employed at that specific firm and sometimes they'll check to make sure it was in the specific capacity you claimed.
"Goldman Sachs expects integrity to be the highest of priorities..."
I don't know if I should laugh or cry at this statement. America's #1 crony capitalists (corporatists) just lauded for their integrity. Wow.
And how has your experience been different throughout your career at the Make a Wish Foundation?
On another note, whoever made the original statement you referred to is an idiot. GS (and every other firm out there) does a background check because its standard practice across firms and industries when hiring a candidate. Making sure that the resume/background of the person you're hiring isn't fictitious has nothing to do with integrity, its common sense. If they haven't grilled you on technicals its probably because you haven't done particularly well on the first half of the interview and they don't feel like wasting their time watching you sweat through the technical questions.
Seriously? Goldman Sachs is the poster child for the revolving door between government and Wall Street. It's one of the bigger Wall Street lobbyists on Capitol Hill. They are the poster child for everything that's wrong with the inner power circle of Washington and NYC.
Before you call me some kind of liberal, I'm a conservative Republican, and cronyism is contradictory to the free market. To call GS dedicated to integrity is to call a serial killer dedicated to life.
OP, I think you should tell what happened. We all mistakes - it's OK. Let the more experienced members of the forum help you. And I think people should withhold any moral judgement and try to help this guy out with the best suggestion you can come up with. After all, that's what WSO is about.
@KnivesOut
Disagree. Don't post this publicly. Bad idea.
You've been getting some pretty bad advice on here. 98 out of 100 people that read your post are in no position to offer you advice, you're better off talking to someone you know well or PM-ing a member you trust. Don't post it for the entire world to see.
Agree with Krypton.
Come on, we all want to know what happened
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