Linkedin premium ran out… was hoping if there is any general consensus on the stratification of the EBs in terms of recent exits into the buy side (MF/UMM PE)
Seems like Evercore and Moelis has it best per capita from Peak Framework’s video. Centerview, although they want people to stay, has some good placements too. But how do they compare to the rest, especially Lazard and PJT?
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Redacted, don’t want to spread inaccurate info, See comments below
Thanks! General consensus is Evercore, Moelis, Lazard, and PJT are the top dogs
Dude you are a junior in college who hasn't even step foot into any bank yet. How could you possibly know how every bank exits? lol
"Moelis has that rumored "DLJ pipeline" with Apollo especially from the LA/NYC offices" -- you read that off WSO, lol. If you actually worked at Moelis though, you'd know that they don't really send anyone to Apollo.
Fixed, need to delete wso and come back in 2 years lmao
Purely anecdotal evidence (especially focusing on the NYC offices of each firm), this is how I'd rate the groups based on both considering exits into MF/UMM PE per capita and overall (maybe a weighting of like 75% per capita (to adjust for size) / 25% outright placement (shows consistency). Also, purely rating each firm as a whole (aka no "but PJT RSSG" type of deal).
Evercore/Laz: By far the most consistent overall in placing into UMM and MF. Obviously placement is the best outright, but even by per capita Evercore and Lazard are competitive with the smaller EBs especially for MF placement. Both firms consistently churn out placements into a diverse collection of UMMs and MFs.
Moelis/PJT: In terms of placement, arguably just slightly below Evercore/Laz. Obviously PJT RSSG is phenomenal for exits, but PJT as a whole arguably places slightly worse than Evercore/Laz into MFs, but PJT's exits as a firm do tend to lean towards distressed and special sits (obviously due to RSSG) compared to the other EBs, and PJT's exits are also largely boosted by RSSG's 2-and-out policy. That being said, RSSG is much smaller than Strategic Advisory, and while Strategic Advisory has great exits I'd argue they're just not as great as Evercore or Lazard M&A. Moelis also tends to have a lean towards distressed and turnaround exits (especially Centerbridge-esque firms like PJT), and their exits are great overall, but they just don't place into MF with the consistency or frequency of Laz/Evercore. I really want to stress that the gap between PJT/Moelis to Evercore/Laz is extremely small, and Evercore/Laz edges out IMO purely due to their sheer consistency of their exits.
CVP/PWP: Both firms are smaller than the others listed so far, but even when adjusting for per capita, I'd honestly argue both firms do slightly worse, but still great. Anecdotally I feel like CVP doesn't nearly exit into MF nearly at the rate of Evercore/Lazard even when considering per-capita. PWP also doesn't exit as well as Evercore/Lazard to MF, but still does great among UMMs. Because of the size of both firms, the exits to top MF/UMMs tend to not be as consistent as Lazard/Evercore even Moelis/PJT. I definitely feel like there's also other factors behind the slightly weaker exits (perhaps CVP with better A2A rates driven by high comp and 3-year program, and PWP also tends to have higher A2A and analyst retention than other EBs with what I've heard to be the best culture out of the EBs). Anecdotally, I also feel like the analyst classes at CVP and PWP are less gung-ho about PE recruiting with fewer MF-or-bust on-cycle hardos in each class compared to other EBs (perhaps because of the 3-year commitment at CVP, Idk why for PWP).
Greenhill: MF is definitely less common from Greenhill (even adjusted for per capita) than the other EBs, but Greenhill still places well across UMMs. Greenhill's implicit 2-and-out policy is definitely a driver of their good exits, and the consistency of their exits is also shocking for a firm of their size. Overall a great place to be if focused on UMM exits.
Once again, purely anecdotal observations from my 3 years in banking (ignore my title it's old) and from friends and coworkers. Bottom line is if you're at any of these places, holding all else constant you'll be getting HH calls and interviews from the vast majority of UMM and MFs, and placement will come down to your own skill, your interests (many people at top firms don't want MFs), and some luck.
Tysm! Also, you meant Evercore/Laz instead of CVP/Laz right?
yup, fixed.
Extremely based fam. Can you please speak on Jefferies / Guggenheim / Qatalyst and where you rank them? You seem super knowledgable on this and hoping for a detailed answer for these like the format you wrote above. Cheers and SBed!
b
M. Klein exits from LinkedIn - Ares, Carlyle, KKR fig Crestview, Sycamore, Roark, Baring Private Equity, Advent, Oak Hill, EQT, Digital Bridge, Brookfield. It's ridiculous
At PJT M&A as associate and thought I'd offer my experience. Obviously don't have the full list but it seems like every analyst I talk to is Blackstone, Apollo, Thoma Bravo, CD&R, etc A fair amount of General Atlantic and other growth type shops as well. Think a couple kids self-selected out as well to go to places like Insight. All of that to say is that, in my opinion, our analysts definitely hold their own despite the fact people on this site really like to dunk on PJT M&A . Also know for a fact that partners actively place calls out to places like Tac Opps to lock down spots for analysts.
I call bullshit, and I don't understand why everyone is so committed to this ruse of sucking off PJT
Yeah yeah....Intern calling BS on an associate that "works at PJT," ms me all you want
But before you do that go take a look of LinkedIn
Quick searches reveals:
CD&R: 0 Associates from PJT
TB: 1 Associate
GA: 1 Associate
APO: 6 PE Associates
Carlyle: 2 PE Associates
KKR: 2 PE Associates
WP: 2 Associates
From what I understand, every year PJT hires ~25 M&A and ~10 RSSG globally so 35/year, so we're basing this on a sample size of 70 PJT exits since they have a 2 year program
This means that these exits represent the top ~20% of the analyst class at PJT which is impressive but saying "every analyst I talk to is BX, APO, TB, CD&R" is complete bullshit--and the numbers prove it.
Keep in mind, the people at PJT are predominantly Wharton/Harvard Summa Cum Laude kids, which makes it even more underwhelming given these kids were already the cream of the crop, so you can't compare these percentages to Citi or Barclays where exits are broader and fewer targets and more diversity
Can you speak on Jefferies / Guggenheim / Qatalyst and where you rank them. Interested as well
Currently at PWP. Here's how I would rank them:
tier 1: EVR/LAZ/PJT RSSG
tier 2: Moelis
tier 2.5 PJT M&A
tier 3: CVP/PWP
Honestly feel like CVP/PWP are a bit overrated for exits. They don't exit nearly as well as people on this forum might think. At my group at PWP, there were no MF exits. Also for CVP, I haven't really seen anyone at MFs. Maybe it's because they all go A2A?
Edit: not sure why I got MS lol. Just look on linkedin and you will see very little PWP/CVP representation at the MFs
.
Agree on PWP and CVP, easy to see from a LinkedIn search.
As someone who did MF recruiting, Evercore M&A/Rx and PJT RSSG by far. Looks at every PE MF. Unsure about HFs.
What about HL RX?
Evercore
What's the point of ranking all this shit when it's likely that you'll be lucky to get an offer from just one of the EBs you listed?
Here's another prospect thinking he's gonna be the guy to bag offers from EVR, PJT, CVP, LAZ, Moelis and then he's gonna have to make the tough choice between them when, in reality, you probably won't even make it to the superday of any of those
Unrelated but Peak Frameworks was at Evercore so i've always found him to be abit of an EVR lickass
Interesting.
He's not a lickass it's actually that good. You just mad you struck out there and now stuck in ER lmao
Can anyone talk about the exit for Jefferies?
interested
UBS exits for top groups?
I think people tend to conflate realized exits with ability to exit. As someone at a "top" buyside shop, I can confirm that anyone with Evercore/Centerview/PJT/Lazard/Moelis/PWP on their resume would at least get looks for top funds. After that, the rest is really up to the individual candidate.
On top of that is a layer of self selection that exists and is probably most apparent at the smaller firms (Centerview, PJT, PWP). Taking CVP for example: a lot of alums that choose to exit in the first place tend to lean towards doing something more unconventional (you can find a disproportionate number of start-ups, etc. from CVP). That said, they still place well in traditional PE recruiting and posts above that say otherwise are uninformed. Quick list of PE placements from CVP include: KKR, Blackstone, Warburg Pincus, Advent International, TPG, Carlyle, Bain Capital, General Atlantic, TA Associates, Centerbridge, CVC, Dragoneer, Oaktree, Insight -- all incredibly respected.
Ultimately, this discussion is really splitting hairs and not really helpful for incoming kids/prospects since the reality is that if they were fortunate to receive an offer at any of these places, they should accept.
You will see very little PWP representation at those PE firms tho, just look on linkedin and search the filter for PWP. Have a friend at PWP and he said they didn't exit that well to MFs but great to UMM
I feel like all the other EBs exit well though. But, there is definitely somewhat of a difference in the looks you get from a PJT RSSG vs Moelis. For example, I am pretty sure Moelis has only sent one or two kids to Berkshire ever whereas PJT RSSG sends 1 or 2 kids to them a year. For whatever reason, Berkshire doesn't like Moelis.
I do agree tho that most looks will be the same across EVR/CVP/PJT/LAZ/MOE given good school / gpa
know it's just an example, but moelis has sent one associate* to berkshire a year for at least the past three years lmao
edit: analyst* damn thought this guy would pick up on context at least
Berkshire is overrated af
Completely agree with this post. People also ignore just how different the cultures are at each firm. For example, PJT RSSG is 2-and-out, and thus has institutionalized exiting to PE within the group culture because their analysts have to exit. Their analysts get good exits, and PJT goes to campuses marketing RSSG's exits as the selling point of the group, which leads to the most gung-ho kids focused on PE recruiting for PJT RSSG, which then perpetuates the cycle. Greenhill is similar as they're also largely 2-and-out. Analysts enter the firm with that understanding and thus are already on day 1 much more focused on PE recruiting.
Moelis doesn't have a high A2A rate as the culture there is very intense, which also helps drive exits. Moelis develops a reputation for exiting well (but not having a great culture to have a sustainable career at), and college kids who are gung-ho about exits tend to recruit for Moelis. Also, during their analyst stints, analysts at Moelis will tend to look at exiting at a higher rate because everyone else is and also because the culture there is super intense, which leads to more analysts exiting. The MDs also recognize that the analysts will likely exit, and grind the analysts because the analysts. The cycle perpetuates and reinforces itself. Largely the same for Lazard and Evercore.
CVP and PWP, on the other hand, largely promote themselves as places that are conducive to a long-term career in banking. Both places have top-down culture that emphasizes mentorship and a career in banking more. Also, in the past, CVP and PWP both had a culture that discouraged exits (in that seniors weren't super supportive of exits), although that's changed a bit for both. Still, the culture at CVP and PWP tend to be more conducive to portraying banking a bit more favorably, and as a result, more analysts stay on (CVP and PWP have by far the highest firmwide A2A rates across EBs) and fewer analysts exit. Incoming analysts also see this, and are less gung-ho about exits when their peers are largely a bit more chill about PE recruiting and on-cycle. The cycle perpetuates.
Overall, you'll be getting the same looks from all of these firms. Sure, maybe CD&R likes Evercore and Lazard more, and Centerbridge likes PJT and Moelis more, but at the end of the day the differences between firm exit strength are minimal. IMO, the biggest factor driving the difference in exits between the firms is the culture at each firm.
PWP doesnt have the same industry prestige as the other EBs
if u look on the vault prestige rankings bofa is ranked higher than PWP. I think this contributes to worse exits than the other EBs
All around horrible post. 1) PJT RSSG kids aren’t going to Berkshire, its typically MF/HF 2) ya duh bro it’s a two yr associate program so the one that came 3 yrs ago is gone
click on both of their profiles they werent associates at moelis they were analysts
edit: you gave me MS within 2 seconds of me posting this comment lol
What?? Analysts at moelis then associates at berk
Analyst who becomes a pe associate…
Can you read? lol
that other guy said moelis sent 1 moelis associate to berkshire a year for the past 3 years: "but moelis has sent one associate to berkshire a year"
Can u pick up on context clues and realize either 1) he made a mistake 2) he was referring to the position you’re hired for… which is an associate
3a. PJT
3b. MoCo
In the US alone Lazard slides down the list and CVP slides up
Can you speak on Jefferies / Guggenheim / Qatalyst and where you rank them. Interested as well
Can speak to Q. Analyst classes are small so you don’t run into many ex-Qs but exits are very consistent into top VCs, Crossovers and HFs. Most analysts aren’t interested in MFPE given the large pay cut and lifestyle downgrade, but the ones that have pursued it have recently landed at MFs (Silver Lake, Warburg, one turned down Thoma offer, etc.). You’ll mostly see Q analysts go to places like IVP, NEA, Keliner Perkins, Coatue, Dragoneer, Meritech, etc. A few exited straight to Hedge funds in recent years as well (Citadel, Davidson Kempner, DE Shaw come to mind). You just have to decide what you want to do and communicate it to headhunters- you’ll get the interviews you want but need to prep
bump
One caveat about buyside placement is that except for some top-top MFs, the "ranking" of the firm (whether EB or BB) is not as important as people make it to be. Thus, there isn't going to be a stark difference between your average exit from Moelis or Perella to your average exit from Evercore. Your actual performance, experience, and exposure to deals/clients at your firm matter much more.
As to ranking, it should be something like this:
1. Evercore, PJT RSSG - Consensus top places for exits. IMO the only EBs that truly compete with top BBs (that is, GS TMT and MS M&A) for top (MF) buyside exits
2. PJT M&A, Lazard, Moelis, Greenhill - These places will include mostly UMM exits, with some MF. Buyside placement is still highly consistent and better than most shops on the street
3. Centerview, Perella, Guggenheim - Less established buyside exit pipeline (GUGG, PWP (though it seems to change in recent years), or discouragement from buyside exits (CVP)
How are buyside exits at the bigger EBs (LAZ/EVR)? Their numbers should be adjusted on a per capita basis, no? I'd assume that given the large analyst class size, a handful of folks might get screwed in a way because of a subpar experience etc.
any data about placement % across firms?
bump
bump
Thought LAZ is in line with EVR for buyside exits. Or is it not the case?
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