How do the two groups compare in terms of experience, deal reps, day to day, culture, and exits?
GS FIG is a legacy group with top exits, but JPM FIG has also had stellar exits lately. It seems like JPM FIG has the most deal volume across sub-verticals. How do the different FIG sub-verticals compare to each other?
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Don’t worry about it bro you won’t ever get to choose between those groups
I’m going to one little bro, have fun at ubs fig
UBS catching strays out of nowhere
Bro why you getting so pressed over a joke?
Its quite easy to be in a position to choose between these two lmao. Bro acting like this was KKR vs APO
Lmao that’s when you know he’s a pure non-target bot smh. Just wanted to ask a question and he got embarrassed
GS FIG, better exits and deal experience overall. Group is filled with DEI though
……..
DEI quality is worse on the MBA associate level. On the analyst level — still mostly DEI + Target or DEI + nepo.
at the MBA level, it is still DEI and target, but that doesn't change their subpar quality... We had a couple of MBA diversity SA from schools like Wharton or CBS, and they were pretty abysmal (they somehow got return offers though, which is a mystery)
Group is filled with beckies, especially Asian beckies. What a joke
Old money vs new money
Both are paradise
JPM and it isn't close. Was in another group at GS but had close friends from college in FIG and the unanimous opinion is to run away from the group as fast as you can. The seniors in the group are callous, corrupt as hell (look up a lawsuit from a deal from a few years ago) and downright strange people. Unclear to me how they have the personalities to win any deals and there are regularly big-time transactions they miss. The old head of the group was a guy known for being an a**hole with juniors. My understanding is the group is also extremely political too, though I am sure merit comes into play in some way, no out of office culture I am aware of and hours are brutal.
The mid-levels are incompetents, many DEI, often hired to fill a short-term need. I heard a good story or two about associates who had good pedigrees / were sharp but those are the exception, not the rule. If the choice were GS FIG or McDonald's I guess you should take GS (assuming McD offer is drive-thru where you risk getting drinks thrown at you, but if it's a management opportunity DM me to discuss), but if you want to be at Goldman and have an option for any other group aside from Industrials I would absolutely take any other option, especially if CR, NR or TMT (still brutal culturally but undisputed king of sell-side groups across Street from a dealflow, prestige, reputation standpoint etc.).
I can't comment on how JPM FIG is set up organizationally, but GS FIG also has three verticals that are very much where you get stuck. If you get put in banks / commercial finance, that is all you work on; you won't get to do much (if any) FinTech, insurance or asset managers. The verticals are insurance, banks and fintech/asset managers. I knew people in two of the three and note that if you are in FT - AM, which sounds the coolest, the culture is brutal with a high turnover up and down, most of what you end up doing is asset manager stuff because there is very little FinTech activity aside from pitches.
If you are picking based on firm and not the group, GS is not the firm it used to be. I would preface that as a matter of my own opinion but invite other GS people to chime in, everyone I interacted with felt that way and wanted out asap. The firm itself has semi-permanent relationships with clients but not really the partners, they just played the game and climbed the corporate ladder effectively. Becoming a partner very much seemed like a wait your turn game to me - once the current partner made a few million bucks their clients would get passed on to the next guy or gal through a promotion for them and the partner 'retiring from the firm'. Exception for handful of senior partners who have deep industry/product expertise or have known some hyper rich family (i.e. Waltons, Buffett) for a generation.
Once competitors start peeling those clients' loyalties away slowly and surely, it will lose market share in IB (Centerview already succeeding bigly), eventually the M&A crown. There were regularly clients who would sh*t all over us on calls saying the MD or VP doesn't know what they are talking about or the math is wrong. Further, my girlfriend is a lawyer at a good firm; the partners she works with all view the quality of talent at GS (even in top groups like TMT) as being substantially below Centerview, PJT, JPM (esp. M&A) and Evercore. They haven't realized it yet, but being super PC and pro DEI (at least when it was convenient, when there is a Democrat admin they will revert to do what is convenient I assure you), has ruined the firm.
TLDR - GS was far from what I (and many classmates) were expecting when we got there, it isn't the GS of 20+ years ago with brilliant rainmakers who teach you esoteric things or how to make millions of dollars. Your hand will not be held, you'll be given tasks and expected to figure out how to execute them well. Of course you can ask questions, but if you don't do well initially you will be cooked and put on all the trash projects nobody wants.
GS does a good job projecting competence and prestige, but the inside is far, far from that. Countless MDs and VPs who are absolutely clueless. Yes, there are a few very senior partners who deserve the respect they get, but once the old guard is phased out and replaced with new people, I really just don't see the firm maintaining its elite reputation over our lifetimes. It will always be fee generative / a leader in trading until someone figures out how to start boutiques like Centerview that have the same execution capability.
Don't let lay prestige with someone at a bar lead you into a bad decision you will regret within two weeks; make an informed choice - hopefully this adds helpful color. Last point assuming you are talking NY: JPM is moving into a very nice looking brand new building this summer, GS HQ in NY will be nowhere near as nice comparatively.
Congrats on JPM!
Congrats on MS!
Congrats on MS!
Are you talking about just New York? There are multiple offices - wouldn't that matter?
Do not go to GS FIG, this should be a very easy choice. You will thank me later on in life
why?
Edit - see above
GS FIG is filled with DEI MBA associate hires. It has become a joke at this point among some analysts
This. A couple joined now as full-time associates and they are awfully slow. Not clear how they got return offers, even though on paper they are from target schools (think Wharton, Columbia, etc)
Has JPM gotten better or worse? I heard their leadership has completely turned over and they have new MDs and group head.
Deal flow is good because at the end of the day it's still JPM, but the quality of mid-levels there is honestly pretty meh (associate, VP, ED levels)
Some fair points here but a lot of this feels outdated or overblown - especially if you’re deciding at the analyst level. If you’re an associate though, then heed the warnings.
GS FIG still places well, has strong vertical-specific deal flow (especially in insurance and AM), and you’ll get reps. The vertical silo concern is valid, but that’s true across FIG groups generally (JPM included). If you’re an undergrad with the chance to work at GS FIG, it’s not some career-ending trap.
FWIW, among people I know who held both GS classic and JPM offers, almost all chose GS (unless they were soft-promised JPM M&A or Healthcare).
But wouldn’t it be different if you were choosing JPM FIG and a classic group like Nat Res or Industrials, not TMT?
Not really. My friends in JPM FIG struck out trying to place into M&A, HC, and M&C during the group placement process.
The reality is that almost no one actively aims for FIG as their top choice at JPM (or most banks). Group placement can feel like a lottery, and at that point, a bird in the hand, like classic coverage at GS, is the safer bet.
That said, it’s more of a toss-up when you’re comparing GS to something like Evercore/PJT/CVP or a top Rx group. At that point, it really depends on the GS group & personal goals.
Like the other poster, I know several people from GS FIG’s recent analyst class(es) and JPM FIG. They have a clear bias towards JPM - but most of the issues are really not GS specific.
Can confirm: JPM FIG is not materially less sweaty or less toxic. The group has brought in quite a few juniors and midlevel from RBC FIG, and that culture carried over. Like GS, the group tends to burn through strong juniors because of weaker midlevel and associate talent. FIG just isn’t an ideal or target group for most strong MBA associates.
It’s not better quality than GS FIG by any stretch and you don’t get the same legacy group boost in buyside recruiting either.
Also worth noting: more JPM FIG interns lateral into other groups than GS FIG interns.
not sure where the RBC comment is coming from. A bunch of folks joined from Citi in Insurance but that’s been it
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