GS Ops or Citi S&T
I'm a junior at Princeton, don't have a phenomenal GPA, and interned with Goldman Sach's Operations Division as a sophomore, got called back for junior year, and just got a Citi S&T offer for this summer.
If this was two years ago, I would take the S&T offer without a doubt, but these massive layoffs are scary to be honest. GS seems a lot more stable and might actually gain after this. I know that ops is ops, a back-office lower paying position with a base sitting around 70 and no bonus, but a job is a job. I'm scared that if I even do get a full-time offer with Citi, it either won't be honored, or I'll start, be given like 6 months, and then get hit in a round of layoffs.
Are my fears warranted? Thoughts?
Much appreciated.
i'd take citi s&t but being that you're from an ivy, you may have a chance to lateral to front office for full time at GS.
...or you may never have the chance to get a FT FO offer if the recruiting goes away.
honestly, bro do whatever helps you sleep at night.
The world has changed. And we must change with it.
Take Citi S&T and try to lateral.
Take Citi, you will be better prepared for full time...to get a much better/safer offer
take citi, you can use it for full time.
dude, come on, take citi
Def Citi. Why in god's name would you choose ops over S&T?
Citi. Even if they go under, your S&T experience will be more valuable on your resume than GS ops
take citi :)
Wow. I didn't think I'd get this type of overwhelming support for the Citi decision. Are there any Citigroupers or GS guys that support this?
To be honest, I didn't enjoy my time at GS. Ops had a very individualistic "star" culture regardless of what the ads say about teamwork bs. My group's work was monotonous and the morale low. I'm sure that front office is way better and the culture isn't the same. I felt damn good walking around the street with that GS ID tag though. Having your family brag and ignorantly thinking your job is safe.
When I interviewed at Citi, I asked my MD why this whole desk was cleared out. He said they were all laid off. When news hit about the 50k slaughter, he told me how when people packed their stuff and walked out, everyone stood and applauded. Some cried. You're probably thinking, "wait, they clapped?" Ironic, I know; but they clapped I guess in "support" of the individual in the future. I can only imagine what that must've been like.
On the plus side, Citi only took 4 S&T interns out of 21 in the final round. I'm sure my alum base did something to swing things my way and would continue to do so while I'm there with some of the stuff they told me.
Quick Q&A: I know comp at GS is 60+10 sign on. What's comp at Citi for analysts like? Higher ranks?
It's not a very difficult question
Why is it surprising? Ops blows. No one does it by choice. Go to some of these temp agencies and look at the back office jobs they have posted...
Qualifications: College degree or equivalent work experience
They're 40 year old women with nothing but HS diplomas working in back office.
Also, just cuz its Goldman doesn't mean you should scrub their toilets over anything and everything else.
The reason why there is a lot of "star" mentality in ops is because everyone feels like an all star because its not really that challenging. There's people doing it cuz the money is good and its not high-pressure/crazy hours. And theres people doing it as 1 step in the over-all progression of their career. Its easy to feel like a badass in a back office position; you don't have to be too sharp, and everyone ambitious (ie. not content with the lifestyle/career) feels over qualified. There's also a VERY big shortage of meaningful work in operations, so people tend to fight tooth and nail to get responsibilities which you can't train a single celled organism to carry out.
There's no such thing as feeling like an all-star and not actually being one in IBD/S&T. If anything, you may be an all-star, and still feel like a useless fucking monkey.
Ops is busch league, I don't care where you do it. S&T, no brainer.
this should not even be an issue Citi anyday
gs ops is not even in the same category at citi s&t
you are fortunate to get the citi offer and should take it immediately over ops
No worries over not really getting the job at Citi at all like not having the FT offer honored in case they get into more trouble? Or entering and being immediately fired?
I am learning towards Citi and this forum is pushing me further but I just want to quell all of my qualms so to speak.
Even if you don't get FT with citi, the S+T gig will still give you a shot at recruiting with other firms. The ops job is bush league as has been said-I bet you could get one FT even if you go with citi now.
ha. ops. why would you pigeon hole yourself?
x
there is a huge elephant in the room that hasn't been addressed:
what will be the implications of citi's almost imminent nationalization? while i'm not sure how long its receivership will last and how the pro forma firm will be managed, its seems clear that uncle sam isn't going to pay nearly as much as vikram pandit. perhaps a more stable gig at GS IS worth considering?
you're missing what we're saying.. Even if Citi was to fold, if his ambition is to work in the FO, then he's better off with Citi S&T experience than Goldman Ops experience. It's for an SA, not FT gig
What is GS IS?
The government isn't going to be running the day to day operations of the bank. Nor will it impact the compensation for an entry level S&T hire. An S&T MD who made a $3M bonus last year, yes. An analyst who's making 50K+Bonus... not so much. Most bonuses for the next year or 2 will be relatively small anyway, not much room to squeeze it down. Politicians aren't getting on a soap box to bitch and moan about analysts getting a $25K bonus in this down market. If Uncle Sam wants to start underpaying his newest state owned bank's employees, he better start doing on campus recruiting at the Apex Institute and University of Phoenix online Professional Studies Certificate Program cuz everyone else will be at the banks still paying well (relatively)... which means Citi's Wall St days will definitely be numbered.
i meant "GS is worth considering." i used caps to emphasize my disagreement with everyone else. sorry for the confusion.
In 60 days max, Citi's going to be in receivership. It'll be operating at a fraction of present capacity. Huge headcount reductions.
For you, it'll be last hired, first fired. And why not? You're too junior to be anything but an expense. Taxpayers aren't going to subsidize your salary while you learn your business. Especially if that business goes away and never returns. They could easily hired someone experienced and pay them what they're paying you.
With 250,000 unemployed Wall Streeters out there, you don't want to be one more. Take the GS job and ride out the storm. In this environment, a lateral move is a lot easier than trying to get hired from the outside at the next firm.
i dont think this is necessarily the case it seems like the threat to citi right now is nationalization but even if that happens, its hard to imagine citi without a ibd or s&t business. it will still function and there will still be a need for incoming analyst, although maybe the numbers will be reduce
Auto hit the nail on the head with my biggest fear and reasoning and you're not the first I heard that rationale from. I know an alum who has serious batting power at GS and can get me an interview for S&T. I'm just scared that the interview won't turn out well and I'll be stuck in ops, or end up dropping out of finance entirely and go to law school.
I think I'm going to GS it. Thanks for the help everyone.
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