Hey guys, I am in the final stages of interviewing for an Associate role at a small lending firm. I have provided them with 3 references, but they insist on more senior references from a group that I left after only about 3-4 months. How do I tactfully refuse to provide any more references or more specifically, references that I know won't have good things to say about me ?
Trending Content - Investment Banking Forum
| +69 | Wealthy Parents / Jaded | 22 | 14h |
| +48 | How are hours rn for SA (interns) | 29 | 1h |
| +45 | Venezuela Debt Restructuring - LAZ vs CVP | 20 | 44m |
| +40 | Background check issue IB Full Time | 23 | 14h |
| +30 | Boutique firm wants access to my LinkedIn? | 13 | 5h |
| +27 | Investment Banking in Mexico | 7 | 1d |
| +24 | MM bottom bucket bonus | 9 | 2d |
| +24 | UBS GIG, LevFin, FSG Interns working Sundays and 85 hour weeks their first week? | 12 | 10h |
| +22 | A COMPLETE GUIDE TO SUMMER INTERNSHIP RECRUITING | 6 | 13m |
| +21 | Excel macros for QOL formatting | 0 | 2d |
Career Resources
Come on, someone must have some insight on this? Marcus, Edmundo, anybody?
It sounds like they are concerned about the job you left after only a few months and of the circumstances of that break. If they insist on the reference I can't see a good way around it. Past job performance is the best indicator of future performance after all. Refusing to give a better reference will likely cost you the job as it makes it pretty clear you are hiding something or did a crappy job before. Unless you have solid references from more senior people, which you should have used in the first place, you might have to just bite the bullet and contact your former employer to find out what they will say, you might be pleasantly surprised. Unless you were a horrible employee and burned all your bridges there most bosses don't go out of their way to screw you over on references, but it happens.
Well, I've never had this problem but this advice has been given before on this forum:
If you need a reference, you need a reference. Call up the supervisor(s) you think will be the most sympathetic and explain that in the past you may have had your differences but you still respect them and are (humbly) asking for their help moving on with your career. Unless you totally screwed them over in the past, they should be somewhat sympathetic, everyone was a young professional at some point and had bosses they didn't mesh with. Besides, it's an ego boost to be able to help someone out of jamb.
If you can't move on without a reference, then you have to get over the awkwardness and just ask for their help. There is no downside (except your pride--and "pride always hurts, it never helps") so what do you have to lose?
Once again, no comments from more senior guys?
Thanks for the bump
No problem Let us know how this turns out.
Good Luck.
Banks Checking References (Originally Posted: 11/11/2010)
Okay, so this is really weird, but essentially my references blow. My last internship ended with kind of a quarrel between me and my boss over personal matters...she would probably still give a decent one, but I'm quite worried. Before that, I have no work experience that is worth getting a reference from. Do they check references/ask for them for let's say a sophomore trying to get into the banking industry?
I don't know about sophomore, but full time they definitely checked my references after i signed the offer. apparently they called my supervisors and asked all sorts of questions ranging from what are X's strengths and weaknesses to assessing my analytical abilities... i have no idea why they would ask someone this!
I'm interested to know how you guy in a quarrel with your boss about personal matters.. would you like to share the story?
I don't think as a sophmore they're going to check you out... but i could be wrong.
Isn't it illegal to ask more than: "What position did this person hold?" "What time periods were they employed with you?" and "Did this person work for your firm?"
Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure there are laws that prevent asking any more than that...
Well, I know obviously they check references for full-time jobs, but I'm really curious for summer positions.
The quarrel was regarding my friend who got fired from the same position for no particular reason, that is, she did just as good a job as me, if not better, yet she was an outspoken black female.
i think this only applies to cold calls without your knowledge. if HR asks you to provide names for the background check then they can ask them pretty much anything since you gave them implicit permission
Dilemma about providing references (Originally Posted: 06/18/2010)
Is it ok to provide two different people as references even if it was from the same experience? Both people acted as supervisors and know me pretty well, and I don't have any other refernces I can think of since I don't have work experince. One of my experiences was at a family owned business and they seemed to ask about that more than anything else, but obviously having either of my parents or uncle ( it was their business) as a reference won't work, so i'm left with two people from a previous activity / experience that I didn't even talk about during the interview, is that ok? I figured by saying family owned business , they would realize that the buisness was run by family, but it seems like they may want a reference from that, although he did say I should use people that know me well as long as it's not a aunt or uncle or something (which I thought was odd he'd say that but still hint at wanting a reference from the family owned business). Am I just overthinking this and I should go with the two other references and possibly note I didn't provide the other one because they are family? He said it's fine to use the reference from the activity I hardly mentioned, but I need 3, so was thinking a professor which he also said would be ok, but for the last one another reference from the same activity.
Thanks
That's fine.
For your family owned business, you can provide clients as references if they (the clients) are ok with that.
the business itself is a convnience store and I helped my parents / uncle run some of the numbers and a couple misc things, but there really aren't any clients.
I feel like it's a bit of an awkward situation and maybe it is because I did not word it properly when speaking with them? I said family owned business since I thought that is the proper way to say it, instead if "my parents business", I don't know if there was a misunderstanding from that? They didn't ask me for a specific refernce from this activity, which is why I'm wondering if it would be ok to just go with 2 supervisors from a totally different experience, and a prof. He said one of each is fine, not sure about doubling up on one experience though and neglecting the family business (though I just don't think this one would be appropriate since it's family)
It is ok to provide two different people as references even if it was from the same experience. I have done it and HR understands, since you aren't really experienced yet.
oh ok, thanks!
This will actually be the hiring manager checking, but hes a really nice guy. It's just at the end when he mentioned needing 3 references, when we extensively only talked about my 1 experience - family owned business, it caught me off guard. I thought it would be awkward if I blurted out at that point that I meant my parents owned it, so instead mentioned my other experience. He said that's fine, same with a prof." So long as it's not aunt, uncle, family" were his words. So I was really confused if he expects a refernce from the family business, since maybe he misunderstood what I meant all along. Hopefully he doesn't expect that, and is fine with 3 other references. Would it hurt to ask and clear it up with him?
Just give them the name of someone who will say you did a good job, then discuss the opportunity with the reference so they know what to expect when they are called. Never give a blind reference - at least check it out first.
Interview/Reference Issues (Originally Posted: 08/31/2010)
The situation is that I am applying with Firm ___ and have had someone willing to refer me for a consulting position. However, I did not inform this person that a few months ago i had been referred by another employee and got to the final round of interviews, but ultimately did not get the job. However, this latter position was not a good fit for me at all (I had no idea why they interviewed me for it, but wanted a job).
Is this problematic? I filled out a generic application about a week ago for this position I am interested in, but this firm is big on referrals. Additionally, I e-mailed someone in HR to follow up on my application to no response. Should I just drop this or get him to forward my resume? It should also be noted that these positions are in two different divisions of the organization.
I have no idea what you're talking about.
It sounds like you were referred by someone for a given position for which you were never given an offer. Now you're getting a referral for another position at the same firm from another person.
If thats what you're trying to say... its not a big deal. Get the referral.
LOL I am confused too
Pretty much I was referred for a job a few months back in a division i really wasn't interested in, but interviewed nonetheless. I interviewed and go to the final round, but ultimately did not get the job. Furthermore, I was not really qualified at all for the specific position and was confused why they wanted to interview me for it.
Now, I have someone offering to refer me for the exact division I want, but I am not sure if I should mention to this guy that I had previously interviewed with the firm.
Jesus. You really need to improve your communication skills.
1- i really wasn't interested in [the previous position] 2- i got to the final round 3- I was not really qualified at all for the specific position 4- and was confused why they wanted to interview me for itNone of #1-4 have anything to do with what you're asking, nor does it lend any added context.
You interviewed for another position at the firm and didn't get it. Now someone is potentially referring you to a different position and you want to know if you should tell him that you interviewed for a position that is completely different than what you're now tell him your interested in, and that you got rejected? Use some common sense, do you think someone is likely to refer you for an interview when you tell them that not only are you a flake but you were previously rejected for another position at the same firm?
No don't tell him. Unless he explicitly asks, in which case obviously (or not so obviously) don't lie. Tell the truth.
You should tell him because you might be putting your referrer's reputation at risk. The company's recruiting arm must have systems in place to know that you have already applied, and it will complain to your referrer if you are not allowed to apply a second time in a short time span. Your referrer is doing you a favor by putting a good word for you and he might get burned. This happened to me in the past and it sucked.
Your failed previous interview might end not being a problem, but you still have to tell your referrer.
I disagree.
He's not expected to know your recruiting history so there's no reputational harm for him submitting you for a position for which you're not allowed to apply. Nor will HR complain to the referrer if they don't want to consider you for whatever reason, they just won't put you on the "interesting candidates" list.
Second, HR departments have those types of rules to limit abuse of the system... as in someone re-applying for the same position every day for a month and clogging up efficient review of candidates. Not for referrals and the like. Most likely even if your not supposed to be applying for a position, if an internal person submits you for it, you'll still be considered.
That advice seems to be completely out of sync with the HR/recruiting and referral processes I've seen across the industry.
OK, my point was confusing. Instead of "reputation", let's use "credibility as a referrer".
I am involved in recruiting for MBB and I have successfully referred people for internships and FT positions. Before, I worked with a large consumer products company and I was also involved in recruiting.
When my firm takes my referral, it trusts that I know the candidate enough and that I believe the candidate will be a good fit in terms of skills and personality. The firm does this to increase the efficiency of the recruiting process and the probability of finding good people. My credibility as a referrer is fundamental for this system to work.
Now, imagine the candidate I'm referring has already been rejected by my firm and I don't know about it. And let's say this candidate is rejected again because of his previous interviewing performance (even if it was for a different position). Then my credibility as a referrer will be dented; the candidate has no right to risk this.
But let's make this simpler. Ask yourself, if you were in the referrer's pants, would you rather know about the past applications or not? Of course you would, and you deserve to know because you are doing the candidate a favor.
This is a RELATED article written by Jack Welch that might help you understand the problem. I said related because it applies to interviewers and not referrers, but a good part of the logic can be transferred. http://www.businessweek.com/perm/content/07_34/b4047065.htm
References - What can I do? URGENT (Originally Posted: 03/31/2011)
So I have completed and sent in all my applications. Even had an interview with the Columbia Financial Economics program.
However, since then, I have received notification from one of my referees, that he isnt gonna write the reference for me.
This is despite me asking him back in October and him agreeing.
I am pissed at him (a professor of mine) but what can I do? All my apps have been submitted and under consideration. I have spent a lot of time, effort and money on those and the GRE to fall at this hurdle.
I think its ridiculous but what can I do as I say?
At this short notice, its gonna be hard to find another referee.
Advice please..
What a fucking douche.....
I'd start by exposing him on various sites (ex: ratemyprofs.com), and perhaps send an email to the head of the department.
congrats on the interview
No its not hard to get another reference
step 1. get off of WSO
step 2. start writing emails to old bosses, professors, anyone you can think of. Even ask a profesor you got a B or B+ in their class at this point - its a numbers game. If you have a good friend whose father runs a company/executive get him to write you one. Ask your family if they have a friend that will hook it up. Get creative.
step 3. repeat step 2
good luck bro you will be alright just get to grinding
Consequatur occaecati placeat quae atque. Praesentium minima repudiandae officia aut. Optio pariatur qui optio velit ad omnis aut. Corporis rerum sit atque ut eius quia. Voluptas molestias facere quasi saepe nihil. Voluptatem quia atque nam repellat autem distinctio.
Sed non ut et reprehenderit in. Quia suscipit eos ab autem delectus culpa aspernatur. Debitis quasi odio illo dolorem voluptatem.
Numquam optio earum in hic. Eaque et deleniti quae explicabo est aut officia. Ducimus id et odio modi reprehenderit consequuntur architecto dicta. Dolore cumque sapiente sapiente in aut.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...
Iure possimus ut sit quo totam pariatur placeat. Sit et sit eum adipisci corrupti quo. Et cumque quo vero aperiam. Cum eius occaecati explicabo at deserunt ut.
Sit doloremque laudantium dolor cupiditate ut. Ratione possimus dignissimos soluta rerum voluptatem aut. Architecto eum distinctio ut ipsam.
Laborum nesciunt est voluptate sed. Aut non possimus fuga recusandae sed nihil autem. Quod suscipit dolorem et modi voluptatum quas facere. Laudantium quo non saepe molestiae porro qui mollitia officiis.