I Got Cocky...
Hey everyone - long story short, a couple months ago, I received an off-cycle offer from an UMM(ish) PE fund ($20bn+ AUM), but turned it down because I thought I could do better / did not want to make the move out of NYC. Unfortunately, I was recently laid off from my bank due to headcount reduction; it was made clear that it wasn't based on performance.
In hindsight, I wish I took the offer. I've evidently made a huge mistake. I'm really not sure what to do here, feeling a little lost and hopeless. Would appreciate any help.
Given your anonymity, would be super helpful if you could name the bank that is laying off second year analysts right now, so the rest of us can avoid it haha.
Anyways, tough sitch man. But shit happens. One day when you're middle-aged looking back at a super long and winding path through the high-finance world, this'll just be a blip. I know soooo many balling motherfuckers from my hometown that didn't even get started in finance/business until their 30s.
Trust me, wherever you go next you will experience just as much success and will probably look back at this and be like "Damn, I'm really glad I didn't force myself to move outta NYC, even if things looked tense for a minute"
Thanks. For your benefit, I was at GS (will keep industry group anonymous).
Sorry to hear. Keep your head up. I think I interviewed you. You did a great job and sure you can land somewhere.
This is cap.
You find it unlikely that someone from the 1 of the 3 named PE firms is on WSO? Not going to twist the knife but how many offers do you think each firm extended that were not accepted? Declines are rare and we normally know quickly if the reason they declined was to accept another offer. We had one decline due to location and we knew it from the HH. This is even more rare. It occurred 1 time this year and it was a 2nd year GS analyst. How many other off-cycle “GS 2nd year declined offer based on location” scenarios could there be at the other grand total of 2 other named PE firms could there be in the last few months? I’d bet on a count of 0 before betting on a count of 1.
OP gave enough info for me to connect dots after giving bank name. I offered some kind words to someone going through a tough moment that I “think” I’ve met and was impressed by (90%+ confidence). Then someone in banking, not involved in PE associate interviewing tries to call “cap” to discredit a genuine compliment to someone going through a rough spot? I don’t use the word “cap” because I’m an adult but implying context from your comment, your ability to understand infer reasonable probabilities might be the “cap” here.
Barclays also laid of second year analysts in the most recent round of layoffs (i.e. wasn’t a 1-off event)
Credit Suisse also laid off several first year and second years analysts
Brutal. Take time with severance to keep up the PE recruiting. Plenty of solid firms still hiring.
Hopefully you learned a valuable lesson. You don’t need to settle, but be open to opportunities regardless of geography. NYC is not the be all end all.
Thanks, do you think they would consider hiring someone who just got laid off?
I would think so. It might take some time and extra effort on your end, but the GS brand is strong and as you said it was not performance related.
I’d suggest reaching out to your former coworkers and asking for letters of reference. Can go a long way.
I don’t agree there is a lesson to be learned here. I think wanting to stay in a location and declining an out of area offer is completely reasonable. Op bet on themselves and got unlucky. I don’t see an issue with that just feel bad for them.
I get that and you may be right. Just tough in this environment to turn down what sounds like a solid bird in hand
This. Hindsight is 20/20
I was laid off from GS too. I got cocky as well trying to switch groups.
DM me if you want more specific advice. Hindsight is always 20/20. Don't beat yourself up over it.
wow, pussy galore offering words of kindness and offering to give advice?
I assume because he was at GS right? Normally if someone gets laid off you spout some shit about how no one deserves to be employed etc etc
he made a bad call. he could have avoided it just the same as i could have.
i bitch to the general population when they think that they are entitled to not have a down economy and financial conditions that aren't completely perfect for bankers ever since money changers sat in the piazzas in italy (ie zero interest rates). the general population are just entitled spoiled brats who think the business and credit cycle shouldn't exist and they should always be paid accordingly
Sorry about your situation. I just went through a very similar situation so can understand where you're coming from.
Agreed with that, think it'll be necessary to think about cities other than NYC for PE recruiting, even before what happened. You'll be more than fine in the long run and may even be able to nab something in PE short term anyway.
Sorry to hear that... couple months ago I almost lined up 2 good job offers but I messed something and didn't end up taking either (1 rescinded and 1 rejected precipitously) because I got too cocky as well. I was certainly trying my best but in reality, I made the mistake of confusing cockiness for confidence and focus.
Don't let this consume you. Best piece of advice I ever got was to keep your head up and learn from your mistakes so you never repeat it. It doesn't hurt to eat a bit of humble pie every now and then. Just gotta remember to remain humble yet focused next time.
This might nit apply to you but also speaking from personal experience, it's important to be in a place (environment and your mindset) where you feel comfortable making lots of calculated but risky decisions - career wise and personal life wise. You'll win some but fail most of the times at the beginning. That's just how you learn to increase your hit rate while getting better at risk management.
Just make sure you're doing your job spectacularly and have enough people on your side.
Sorry to hear that man. In a similar position, my bank laid off a group of 1st and 2nd years. Just trying to get back into IB myself but I wouldn't blame you for trying to move to PE at this point since you're over a year in. I'm hoping the job market improves in 2023 but it's pretty sparse right now from what I've found. Damn I wish I had been in the industry when the lateral market was really hot...
What firm is laying off first years?
Credit Suisse has
I was not at CS but a tech boutique
I think you best bet is to try to somehow lateral to another bank, and asap. My guess would be that buyside at this moment is going to be extremely difficult. Ideally, you should be working asap. I think you're too young/junior/inexperience to have a fairly large gap while trying to go for buyside jobs. Once you are resettled in a new ib seat, then you can start recruiting again. I really think putting your eggs in the buyside basket would be doubling down on your cockiness. Sure apply in parallel...but like I said the faster you're employed the better in this situation.
While unfortunate, this is a great learning for you and others reading this. Its one thing to be picky in a bull market but the writing has been on the wall all year that we are on shaky ground. Can't be picky in times like these. Is what it is and there is a decent chance you can recover from this if you don't mess up your next move. Not trying to be overly harsh but I think being overly optimistic isn't being honest. Just be humble and network hard asap.
Any examples of what you mean by “don’t mess up your next move”? Accept a job outside of IB, downgrade too far below GS tier, etc.?
Kinda like I said above...don't dilly dally and focus on just PE/buyside (if it happens quick by all means go for it). Network asap but be thoughtful about it. Don't do anything too drastic like go to tiny PE shop just to be in PE or some very small boutique bank just to be working. Now lets say you're unemployed for 6 months or more you can start going a lot further down if need be just initially include that in your focus. You can go corporate but that's a career pivot. Assuming you're at GS now...will be hard to not down shift in brand but try to do it as little as possible. You will always have GS on your resume though so that's a plus. Careers are fragile...its easy to go from the top to off the track so to speak. There will always be opportunities of course...but starting at GS...and what could have been an UMM PE shop is as on the track it gets. Don't fret though because at this point it is what it is. Just focus on what you can control. Clearly you got into GS and then the PE offer so you're certainty capable and have done good things to date.
Echoing some of the other posts, probably should be less picky moving forward as there will be less opportunities (given the market state we are in). May have to compromise on some of the factors you’re looking for (such as location) but since finance is a relatively long career, can always move to another city and come back to nyc in 1-2 years afterwards if you don’t like it.
PNC always needs tellers. I would check there.
Sorry to hear. also at GS and can empathize. is this part of the latest round of layoffs D-Sol announced this holidays or is this from the September/October batch?
Also a naive question but when layoffs are non-performance related, how do firms decide who to layoff if there are 50+ analysts and 30+ associates in a given group?
Not OP, unless it’s 2008 again, no group is cutting their top of middle bucket or top bucket analysts.
Not at GS but the way it works some times is HR generates an initial list with names of bottom performers and then group heads / high ranking MDs approve or edits it. This helps protects the bank from it becoming full-on nepotism and lawsuits.
Unfortunately for OP, this will be a slight black market since HH and PE funds know you aren’t top bucket or top of middle bucket. My best advice to OP is reach out to the most senior person you are close with, hopefully its a MD with good relationships and reputation and see if they can help you reach out to PE funds / banks you are interested in working at. If you were a good performer, no reason they won’t help you out. It’s a lot easier to get hired when you come recommended by someone that they trust or respects.
Rationale was LIFO - I received strong performance reviews; I just joined earlier in the year as a lateral.
My advice still stands. The bottom line was that the partners / MDs you worked with did not see you as associate material (given GS is 2 years to associate) or you pissed them off by recruiting a couple month after lateraling. Unless it’s 2008, banks will always find a way to keep strong performers.
Your best bet is find some MD that liked you to reach out to their contacts. If it is really LIFO, they will feel bad and try to help you out. If you were a strong performer, there is no reason for them not to. There is a decent chance that you will end up doing something meaningful down the road and you will only be an ally to them.
I don’t think you got too cocky, you just didn’t take an offer that wasn’t a great fit for you. At least for me, banking was hell, so it was super important to take an offer where I felt comfortable and not just the first one (rejected 2 before accepting). Also when looking back, always think “Was it the best decision based on the information I had at that time”. If the answer is “yes”, you made the right call. And given you didn’t know you would be laid off, you made the right decision with the information you had at that time.
It has been a slow year and many people have lost their jobs. Do not get yourself down over this, and it's your choice which offers to accept based on your preferences around fit, location, compensation, hours etc.
You have what it takes to succeed. Keep in mind that you were good enough to receive an offer from GS, and managed to land an UMM PE offer, so you must have been doing many things right as these are all highly selective firms and interview processes. It certainly sounds like you have the innate ability to find another good role and do well in the next place you join.
Cast a wide net during your search - recruit for both IB and PE positions. It is possible you may need to spend another year in IB before getting to PE. Regardless, be persistent and patient as it could some time before you receive your next offer, and make sure the firm is a good fit. Additionally, it would not hurt to keep your mind open to areas beyond just NYC - while perhaps you do not need to choose something in Ohio, it is not the end of the world if you work in Chicago or SF for a few years - these are all great cities.
Please ignore the first year analyst telling you that management did not see you as an associate or that you weren’t a strong performer. Lots of quality people get clipped in down years and are able to bounce back and have long successful careers. The key now is network, network, network. It may take time but stick with it. I’m sure you will bounce back. Good luck.
I’m the previous poster. I am actually an associate who was an a-to-a at top EB. Not disagreeing with you or the OP. OP can be a strong analyst but it’s possible the partners and MD in his group don’t think this way.
Having been through a couple layoff cycles at my EB, HR always tells the person that got axed that it was the the firm and not the person. This is true even if it’s bottom 10% getting cut. This is for legal liability reasons. Maybe it’s different at GS.
Given most lateral analyst are brought on with the implicit agreement to stay two years, the partners and MD that hired that person broke their side of the bargain, even if it was not their fault. Don’t you guys think a call from his partners that calls his best friend at XX fund or bank that says “hey I have a kid here who was awesome and the best analyst I ever had but I swear HR made us cut him due to LIFO” is going to go a long way to getting that kid hired?
Agreed. So many idiots first years who have zero life experience talking like they know how all this operates. Just shows how naive these virgins are. OP should downgrade in bank temporarily to land on his feet to avoid resume gap. A man smart like him (GS + UMM PE offer) should be able to jump back into a prestigious back quickly once the market recovers.
I am at a bank (not fired yet) that laid off first years 4-5 months into the job. Nepotism, inappropriate relationships, favoritism, etc. are what drive some of these unfair decisions unfortunately.
Lol
I’m not going to get into a debate on this, especially with someone dropping “Top EB”. All I’m saying is that you are overgeneralizing the layoff process. I worked through 08, watched lots of people get laid off over the years and have been laid off myself. Yes banks regularly cut non-performers but quality people get caught up in these as well, especially in bad years. Some of these people have bounced back though and are now very successful MDs and group heads. With the current economic conditions, more layoffs are coming and more talented employees are going to get dragged into it. I do agree that having their former MD go to bat for them with funds / other banks is great but that might not be a possibility for them. Regardless, OP should start reaching out to all their contacts that might be able to help.
This is true but it hasn’t gotten bad enough outside of CS where banks have let go who they “think” are the top performers. Obivously, perception is different than reality.
You have to remember that banks recruit sophomores 1 year out and PE funds recruit kids with 1 week of banking experience, all because they don’t want to seem picking up some one scraps.
OP has over come this perception, whether it is true or not. Warm intros will go a long way for OP.
Final comment on this. You have like 3 years of full time work experience in this industry trying to lecture people far senior than you about why each bank that you don’t even work at is laying people off. You don’t know shit. You are also throwing around the words “top performers” in regards to first and second year analysts who are primarily inputting comments and realigning logos. No MD is saying, “First year analyst Johnny’s logo alignments are unreal. I totally see him becoming an associate and eventually an MD.” The reality is that many firms over hired and revenues are currently down and are expected to continue to be down in the near future, prompting cuts, which will not take into account how good you are at inputting comments. Once again, quality employees are and are going to continue to get dragged into these layoffs along with the standard non-performers.
Hindsight is always 20/20. You made what you believed was the right decision based on the relevant information you had at that time.
It doesn't seem like you got cocky. Given the circumstances and the information you had at the time, your decision was the best one.Everyone has moments when they look back and think "I should have done x y and z if I had known ___" but you don't always have all the variables or insights when you make decisions, so you have to work with what you have in the given moment
GS is the mafia bro you will have a lot easier (albeit still tough) time bouncing back. Start aggressively working with headhunters.
Do you have recommendations of headhunters?
Anything but water street and pinpoint - those guys SUCK
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