How crazy is this mentality? I’ve done an F500 corporate finance internship and can’t imagine wasting my life doing that nonsense. It seems like to get any worthwhile job in finance you have to start in IB or work your way up the corporate ladder for 25 years like a normie to make what a 30 year old banker makes. I dont have an accounting degree so i dont think transaction advisory is an option. A career in credit analysis is about as cool as showering with your dad and equity research is pretty much as hard as IB to get into. If I don’t get a FT offer in the fall i think im going to abandon finance completely. Am I on the right track here?
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Absolutely
What did you study at uni?
Finance
Consider than within IB you go from BB all the way to no-name boutiques so there are PLENTY of places for potential employment. If you don't manage and don't want a CF role then consulting (more specifically economic or financial consulting) may be an option.
You realize you don't necessarily have to start in IB from day 1 to eventually break into it right? If anything this kind of shows that you're not that committed to it, saying you'll just drop finance if you don't get an offer immediately? Show a little dedication bro!
Idk man. I don't want to be the 30 year old Uncle Rico still gunning for an IB analyst spot
I've seen guys lateral over to analyst/assoc. spots at 28 before, if you aren't dedicated enough to grind like that to be where you want to be then pick another industry.
You can definitely make it there by 25 or whatever. Do something relatively similar or get some skills for a year or two and lateral.
Dedication is great but you can’t be a stubborn dipshit about it either
Here's a tip that will help you; if you're in this to make money or to impress other bankers that honestly don't give a single shit about you then pick another industry. I agree that you should realize when to hold and when to fold trying to break into this industry but if it is the work is what actually interests you (as oppose to being motivated by the money) then you'll do what it takes to get to where you want to be. If you are not willing to grind like hell for a few years to break in and you'd rather just chase an easy buck then go do medical sales or something.
“In this to impress other bankers”-Very confused
Christ I don't get paid enough to do this. You said in your original post that,
"...it seems like to get any worthwhile job in finance you have to start in IB or work your way up the corporate ladder for 25 years like a normie to make what a 30 year old banker makes."
This implies that you not only think of non-IB finance jobs as "normie" (stop using that word) but also that you equate "worthwhile jobs" to how much money is being made. You would only make that connection or care about that for two reasons; the first being that you just legitimately love money in which case I'm telling you that you can do other jobs and make more money faster without all of the work done in IB, or the second reason which is you want to make a lot of money to compare yourself to other bankers who also make a lot of money in which case I'm telling you that no other bankers will give a shit about you (or anyone that isn't within arms reach of them).
I hope that cleared up your confusion. If I'm wrong then that's fine, I've been wrong before, but do tell me why you think you want to work in IB in the first place? What parts of the job interest you? What is your plan if you leave finance altogether?
You’re making a lot of assumptions champ. Im going to tell you what my dad told me when i was being a little bitch, “Me and you are gonna go in that shed and only one of us is coming out”
You're going to get shit on so hard if you ever make it past a 1st round interview kid.
Got it, talking about beating the shit out of your dad in a wood shed is cool for 1st rounds only
What are some other jobs you can do, just curious? Of course, there is entrepreneurship and sales, but what else?
Quitting finance altogether because you don't break into IB as a 22 year old with no experience is a little ridiculous. It's a grind for a lot of people. This just suggests that you aren't THAT interested in breaking into it. That's all I'm saying. I'm not saying keep trying til you're 30, I'm saying don't give up the second you get any resistance. You seem to have the wrong attitude about this IMO...
What's the alternative plan, assuming you abandon finance altogether? Not wanting to be in F500 finance or Commercial Banking at 40 can make sense to me, but it depends on what you would be doing instead.
,
Lol, this is like saying "If I don't get into Harvard, I think I'm going to abandon college completely."
It's not the end of the world. You're really young. Stay dedicated and hungry to achieve your goals. If you're not dedicated enough now to reach your goals in finance, you won't be dedicated enough to reach your goals in other areas later.
Also, lose the "normie" talk. It doesn't make you sound cool.
To everyone concerned about the use of the word normie: this was used strictly for entertainment purposes and should not be assumed to be a part of my everyday vernacular
Funny how you don't want to be a 28-30+-year gunning for an analyst spot. I actually have a couple of friends who had a very late start in their career because they were working random jobs for 5-8 years to support their family, then went back to school for a Masters and broke into banking at 30 and 32 respectively. Now, a few years later, one is in PE and the other a VP in M&A, making bank and being considerably better off than they would have been had they not broken in. According to the logic around here they should have rolled over and died at 30 because they were "too old". This just goes to show the intellectual level most of the crowd here at WSO operates at.
I broke in at a later age (though not that late) as well and let me tell you my bonus last year felt as good as it would have at 22! Everybody's life is on a different track and everyone has their own timeline, just something to think about.
This is an important thread for all the students currently interested in IB. Don’t be OP.
The way I see it, the only real short cuts to interesting jobs are:
starting in a services industry job working with corporates (IB, consulting, marketing/pr, law, big4 accounting and ER/CR)
starting a company (or joining early) and scaling it
owning and overseeing a product at scale (Product Manager)
route switching via grad school (top MBA, PhD, MD etc)
getting into a gig that pays extremely well for high performance and innate skill like markets jobs (S&T, HFs, quant etc), sales (all types), software engineering, data science, creative roles etc
starting in a leadership development program that fast-tracks you to management
Otherwise, you're going to have to pay your dues like everyone else before you get to the high level, well compensated and interesting stuff. Tough pickles. Not everyone can be good enough to skip the line.
Tough pickles indeed. These are the pickles of our times really. Im just going to keep hitting the alligator closest to the canoe and hope for the best
There are many ways to make a great living in finance, in and out of IB. Assuming you're at a good school, it sounds like you're off to a good start. If for some reason you end up not making IB when you graduate, all hope is not lost as you could transfer in later.
I do agree that credit analysis does not sounds too fun.
Like if those are your goals then banking is definitely the way to go, in my opinion. Being an analyst at a bank will give you some serious cred for any business jobs you try to move into down the road.
This kid is a joke... no wonder he hasn't been successful landing a gig on the street.
iBanking or Bust (Originally Posted: 09/13/2009)
This is not one of those "what are my chances" threads. I'm currently in the full-time recruiting process and going for investment banking. I am really only interested in banking after college, and don't want to settle for back office or some other position.
However, given the current economy, would people suggest to still apply to other divisions in the bulge brackets just in case, so if I don't get IBD then there may be a chance to transfer after several months? Or would it be a better route to stick only to banking, try working for a boutique, and transfer that way? I don't wanna get stuck after graduation without a job cause I was too stubborn about banking. Thanks.
yep
I dont know man...you should probably apply to boutiques where you'll do IB as opposed to something else at a BB.
definitely apply to boutiques over BB. From what i've heard, its MUCH easier to move to IBD at a BB from a place like Harris Williams, Cowen, or Jeffries, then it is from goldman operations. When you lateral later on, people are going to want to hire banking analysts, not people who work in the finance department, as 1) you have no banking experience and 2) you'll likely get little to negative respect from the bankers there, since you are coming from, no offence, a pretty dead end job. Its also significantly harder to get into the above places verses Goldman operations in general, so it shows a lot more about yourself if you have already got into banking. Push for banking at all costs, screw Goldman ops.
Hehe, I do agree with you and curious why you hate GS ops that much =) Actually I know a guy who moved from GS tech to GS IBD, after preparing a lot and passing rounds of grilling interviews.
I'd go boutique as a back up....you can find an extensive list of regional boutiques here: //www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/regional-boutiques
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IBanking or Bust!! (Originally Posted: 04/13/2011)
Unfortunately for me, it was the latter. I currently work at a top BB, but in a back office position and there is no way I'd transition into IBanking unless I go back and get my MBA and come in as an Associate. Given my current financial situation, I can't just take two years off and get it (got rent, bills, wife). Therefore, I've given up on the idea. However, I'm not upset about it cause I would probably eventually either burn out or have my wife cheat on my while I'm away on countless business trips. IMO, no amount of money can substitute for a happy home.
The problem is that over the past few years, I've gotten so caught up with becoming an analyst that I didn't really have any plan B. We all consider IBanking as the epitome of all careers (or stepping stone). My questions are (which I'm sure many of you have thought about):
What are some IBanking alternatives? If you don't get into banking as an analyst, what other career paths are there? Have any of you left banking to pursue something else? Why?
Keep in mind, I'm trying to keep it within finance (ex: not become a teacher, doctor, lawyer, join the military, etc). Also, possibly something that requires travel of 25-50% or less.
Thanks.
PS: I guess I just had to post this on here to finally get it through my head that this sh*t is over.
that's a terrible way to live. be thankful you have a job that pays more than most.
I'm definitely thankful that I have a job. I'm just trying to get to the light at the end of the tunnel by finding something else besides ibanking analyst.
Military will take more than 25% travel...most likely.
My backup plan is Big 4 accounting. It wouldn't be that bad of a B-Plan: less hours than banking, better location than Wall Street, and I actually like accounting (But I haven't done anything related to finance, yet).
Don't be so anxious to get into banking... be happy with your job where you make decent money and can go home at night not having to worry about getting a call that you have to come back to the office, or cancel your vacation, or miss a family friend's father's funeral (my week this week).
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