Ibanking in NYC vs. Asian cities
This topic comes up quite a bit since I'm in Beijing ATM. But wouldn't working in China or some other Asian city be a better deal than working in a high cost American city like NYC?
The main reason is the exchange rate. 1 dollar=6.35 RMB. I can tell you in relation to the living expense in places like Beijing and Shanghai, you're definitely getting a great deal post-conversion.
At the same time, renting a place to live instead of buying is much cheaper in these cities than in NYC. Not to mention the stipend you get.
Most ibankers in their first year in NYC are unable to save and many even go into debt.
What does everyone think?
Or you can go IBD in India and have your own chauffeur driving you around to work =).
How long have you been there? Living in Beijing is definitely not cheap from my experience.
It definitely is not cheap, but I'd say lower than NYC. Keep in mind this is all in relation to your salary, which after currency conversion you'd be ballin out hard if you were in Beijing. Also the tax is incredibly low. I'm simply looking for the cons right now because if you do manage to break in it sounds sweet.
Sounds like you've already made up your mind...
keep in mind that firms in nyc take this into account and (usually) give you much higher salaries
Beijing? Dude. Do you wear a gas mask every day?
bump
IB in Asia (Originally Posted: 10/23/2010)
I know topic of NY vs. Asia has been beaten to death here already, and seems like most people agree that starting off in Asia is not a bad idea if you want to stay there in the long-run.
But what are some of the specific advantages of starting off in NY? Assuming you have all the language and cultural background, wouldn't it be a good idea to start off at headquarters and make the move to Asia later on? I'm getting a sense that the experience in the states is more solid...
also, i know it's stupid to make decisions based on things out of your control, but there are some experts who claim China's growth story isn't sustainable... some go far as to say they won't be surprised if China ends up like Japan pretty soon
I was in the same dilemma, and I ended up choosing the U.S. ( not in nyc though)
The thought rationale I had was.. I can always go to HK, but I am pretty sure I won't be able to come back after working in HK...
thanks for the response Ricqles - did you summer in HK by any chance? if so, i'd be curious to hear your views on any differences between banking there vs. in the states
Banking in States = larger variety of deals, but you are a very, very small component and will not get the chance to wrap your head around what the deal is actually about / the mechanics
Banking in Asia = large volumes of ECM deals, some M&A, but much better exposure to clients / "bigger picture", i.e. what the company is actually seeking to do.
Think about it this way --- as an aspiring banker, you should know that banking at the end of the day is a relationship driven business, internally and externally.
If you spend three years in New York, sure you might supposedly learn more technical skills. But consider this, at the associate / VP level, especially in Asia, the relationships you build within those 3 years potentially will get you much further along than any amount of technical skills. They can hire a multitude of people to model for them - they can't pick up a random person that understands the culture and dynamics of China.
I think the drive to be in New York is based on two things. Some people genuinely like NY better than HK, and also, Asian people for whatever reason tend to put USA / NY on a pedestal. Speaking as an American born and raised up here, I can say that the world is a change place. I summered in NY and HK at BB's, deliberately choosing to start my career in Asia.
At the end of the day: Follow your heart. Also, fyi, if you have the immigration status (i.e. Green Card / US Citizen), transferring from HK --> NY is as easy as it is the other way around as long as there is headcount.
Addendum:
With regards to the advantage of starting in New York. If you don't have the immigration status, working here for 7-8 years will allow you to grab a Green Card. I think there's tons of money to be made in China - BUT, lifestyle / family-wise it's definitely better to raise them here.
No one knows how China will end up. But keep in mind China is run by technocrats that are arguably some of the smartest people in the world. Unlike before, most of them also have international exposure and know what is going on. And they saw what happened to Japan, and are deliberately avoiding those pitfalls.
The United States is now $14 Trillion Dollars in debt. China has US dollar holdings exceeding $1 Trillion dollars. Where is the UNited States going to end up in the next few decades? Cause I'm pretty sure I'm never, ever going to see the Social Security benefits I'm paying for every month now when I retire.
US Hegemony really only started after the 1940's, and the US achieved true hegemonic status only after the 1990's, the collapse of the Soviet Unions. From an economic standpoint, it is virtually a foregone conclusion that China will be the largest economy in the world within 15-20 years.
Is there a risk? Sure. But risk is where the opportunities are to be found.
IBD --> PE is a much more established route and process from NY than HK.
If you want exit ops, wherever they may be, I would suggest NY.
Thanks for your input guys -
ibhopeful532, do you intend on staying in banking for the long-run (in Asia)? What do you think about PE/exit opportunities there?
also, if there aren't many M&A deals in Asia, what do M&A groups there do?
There is definitely PE and HF recruiting - but a lot of it is done by referrals. The jobs will be for the HK and SH offices, not the new york ones. Just for example, a friend at UBS recently interviewed and landed offers from Warburg Pincus and TPG for the HK / SH offices respectively. Key here is that they are looking for a different skill - fluency in mandarin and understanding of local culture is crucial.
Not sure if I will stay in Asia (I'm American). But I think the early exposure at this point to Asia will make it much easier to get into a top B-School (H/S/W) (it's a much different experience than the 1000+ bankers who will start in New York next year). I think despite what anyone says, getting a Harvard or Wharton MBA will pay dividends over a lifetime. At that point I think the options are open - there are tons of American firms (banking and corporate) looking for people with China experience, and I would have established a firm enough network back in HK to go back if I should choose to do so.
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