Incompetent Associate makes me look bad
Hey guys, I'm a first-year at a BB who has recently had the pleasure of working with a terribly inefficient MBA-Associate who joined the team. He joined normal cycle and I joined a few months earlier due to me coming from non-banking. I picked up some IB relevant skills in my last gig so I think I'm pretty good at what I do. The problem is, this guy isn't and he just doesn't seem to "get it" either.
I was sort of recently told by our staffer that I have to work with him a ton because we are cross-staffed on a bunch of various projects (live, non-live, coverage). Every time we have to make something for our VP or MD, he always always has shitty input and refuses to not keep it in. It's to the point that he adds stuff to a slide and I will ask him *politely* that we should perhaps do without it, but he just says, "Ah let's keep it in, I think it adds value". To which the VP always replies with asking us to remove. I'm always in the CC line so it makes me look bad. It's gotten to a point where I know exactly what the VP will ask for, I create that version even before the ASO turns in whatever garbage edits he will make and then have it ready for when the VP inevitably wants it. The VP has literally replied, "hey guys, we really should be catching this at this point" to certain things I explicitly told him we shouldn't include. But the ASO seems just unfazed by it and refuses to change his ways, nor does he acknowledge that I talk about those very changes way before we get comments.
I'm not the kind of person to go behind a team mates back and just honestly tell the VP that I am thinking along the same lines he is, but the ASO just throws a spanner in the works, nor do I feel comfortable one-offing the VP with my versions. I think that's just setting myself up for failure. I have had one-on-one's with the ASO requesting him to just roll with some stuff I've made but he shrugs it off saying, "I will be completely honest with you, I see banking as a long term career and I want to develop leadership skills so I have to keep my guidance and man the ship". I even had one-on-one's with my staffer who said that the team is a little lean with a couple people leaving and everyone has stuff they're working on so I just need to soldier through.
I'm afraid this is a bad representation of what I am doing as we really shouldn't have such a low quality of work. Everytime my MD sees something turned to him, he probably sees my name in the CC and thinks I'm just incapable of getting it right.
Very annoying and a huge pain in the ass, but VPs know what goes on more than you think
Sucks, but odds are VP realizes what's happening and is just too professional to say anything (there's really no upside for him/her to discuss this sort of stuff with you).
Assuming the associate is still here in a year, they'll honestly have a bigger say in your review than your VP, just as a function of working directly with you. Do you want to be remembered as the guy who helped them when they were struggling or the guy who tried to sabotage their career.
When stuff goes wrong, it's pretty rare for the analyst to get blamed, even if it doesn't seem like it as an analyst. I really wouldn't worry about it. If you're close with your staffer, maybe try discussing it with them, but tread lightly and make sure you don't phrase things in a way that makes it sound like you're 6 months into the job and already think they're above helping out someone just starting.
Echoing the comments above, seniors know who's pulling the weight. I wouldn't worry too much about slackers. The cream always rises to the top
I would have a talk with the VP. I would be political and casual about it. Say that you know what they are looking for but the associate doesn't listen and that it's frustrating that you spend a lot of time making the changes you made in the first place, and that you've had the conversation with said associate many times already.
I'm surprised the staffer has not said anything to the associate.
Your gut is right you don't want to be known as the shitty duo of the group. You need to cover your own ass here in a diplomatic way with your VP, don't listen to the folks telling you to stay quiet and put up with it. Your MBA associate won't listen to any of your advice and it's causing you to waste time doing meaningless work which will get changed anyways. Instead he is trying to demonstrate he's a value-add by adding his own irrelevant comments into the decks.
If you really feel the need to, I would talk to VP one on one privately and phrase it as something like:
"hey i've been enjoying working with you and new Asso a lot. I've learnt alot etc. and am keen to continue working together but I wanted to get your advice on how I can communicate upwards with Asso better.
Sometimes, when I'm working with Asso, I'll draft / suggest X, Y and Z that I think is in-line with what you / MD want. However, when I talk to Asso, he as a different view and I haven't been able to make him comfortable enough to implement my suggestions. I don't mind taking feedback, but there are situations where implementing his feedback has lead up down the wrong path.
I've spoken to him quietly 1 on 1 and tried A, B and C but I feel that my message isn't effectively getting through.
I understand that he is new and everyone has a different ways to operate and we're all pulling in the same direction but what are you strategies in getting your views heard by senior? Or is this more related to growing pains as we're trying to get into rhythm together
I'm more than happy to keep working with you and Asso but influencing those above me when I think it will help the team is a skill I'm trying to improve."
Make sure you emphasise the team first and how you want to continue to work together and better operate the ship. Do not come across as a bus thrower / someone who isn't willing to help a team mate out or a cry baby diva.
We were all new once and trying to learn / fit into a group is hard. This could all be growing pains.
VP, if he isn't asleep at the wheel, will be more aware of Asso behaviour and monitor / work the situation as time goes on. Feel free to have another chat up about the topic with him in a few months and update on his suggestions you have tried.
Best of luck.
Depending on your relationship w the staffer and how big your team is, maybe try saying something along the lines of "hey, I've really enjoyed the opportunity to work on so many projects with ASO and VP, but I'm also eager to get to know the rest of the group. Can you let me know if there's an opportunity to work with so-and-so next time?" or if you're on specific mandates with these two you can also phrase it in terms of getting exposure to different types of work, or, if there's an associate who went A2A in your team, you could also ask to work with them and frame it in the context that you'd like to learn about their process and what that career progression looks like.
Shows you are eager + a team player, also hopefully your staffer is likely to read between the lines
It's tough to tell how much of this is factual vs exaggerated/embellished. Tbh this whole post felt a bit like satire...lines like "I will be completely honest with you, I see banking as a long term career and I want to develop leadership skills so I have to keep my guidance and man the ship" seem farfetched at best. Not trying to say terrible associates don't exist, but it's hard to take this story at face value.
Depending on your prior gig, my guess is that you probably don't have the "relevant IB skills" you think you have. If you lateraled from some back office/shitty gig, then you may be coming in with an inferiority complex. That, combined with what seems to be (going off your description here) an insecure associate, is a recipe for disaster. Look inward - whatever the case is here, I hope you find a resolution.
Say something to the VP.
I've dealt with types like this
1) Wouldn't worry - your VP+ is more looped in than you think and at the end of the day your associate is responsible for work product - if it's consistently shit, then people will attribute to him/her
2) If your question is about saving time though, because of having to redo materials then I would let your associate control the low hanging fruit but on the odd occasion where it's a late night or there's a big turn & you feel strongly he/she is wrong - then you just have to alpha up and be ready to die on the hill for this (which is why you shouldn't be doing this all the time, as you'll come across as combative in feedback). Framing is important and be ready to defend your points - no ad hominem, keep it professional, try to compromise when possible
I think the problem is that you didn't come with a traditional IB background either and you're ultimately an AN1. You have to earn your stripes. Your MBA associate probably defers to the AN2s/AN3s if we're being realistic - you're just the one he/she walks over. Frankly I have never been railroaded by an associate on something I thought was right, even the difficult to handle ones once I built up a strong enough reputation
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