MD mental illness / OCD?
This can apply to other levels as well but it’s frankly strange for grown men to have this much of an obsession over PowerPoint pages. It seems hard to believe that at MD age someone can remain this obsessive over colors, footnotes and other frankly trivial items. This seems to ring true the most for MDs who do not generate revenue.
Do any of you see yourselves in 5-10 years remaining obsessed with this stuff? Do you have similar experiences where your solid MDs are bigger picture and the bad ones spend a lot of time debating a chart output?
It seems like there can be some OCD or other factors at play here for some of these people. I wouldn’t exactly call this kind of behavior normal from a 50 year old.
Given that part of an MD's job at an IB is literally reviewing and editing powerpoints, I wouldn't say it's too far of a stretch. Remember that those that performed well enough in your MD's class were able to exit to buyside long ago, your MD is either passionate about making powerpoints for a living or extremely risk-averse/hasn't performed well enough to lateral out but not poor enough to stop progressing.
This is incredibly accurate. I heard this saying when I first joined.
3 years in, I can confirm because it applies to me. Most of my start class is gone. Some to PE, some to corporate dev, some to business school, some rage without anything lined up because their mental health was down the drain. Most of those folks had better performance than me. In fact, my performance is objectively average. It's a bitter pill to swallow (and I'm sure many don't), but it's the truth.
Now that I'm an Associate, WLB has improved by quite a bit. Not in terms of total number of hours, but in terms of downtime during the day. I'm probably not the most liked by analysts, but whatever. I also rarely use my brain anymore, because I instinctually know what to do / say in calls. I'm pretty mentally checked out most of the time.
On one hand, I'm making pretty good money, while putting in 0 risk and barely using my brain. On the other hand, I'm trading off what's left of my youth (something which you can never get back). I might flip a switch and quit soon. I'm not sure I can do decades of this sh*t... or maybe I can... IDK.
Time for another drink...
PS for OP: I can see how MDs get obsessive about colors, footnotes, etc. I've caught myself almost freaking out a few times, before regaining my composure and realizing it's just a Powerpoint...
Incredibly common story in IB... ultimately, if you're gonna leave, you have to do it now. Every year you stay is another round of raises and bonuses which will make it exponentially harder to leave. That's how people end up at MD shitting themselves over powerpoints because they're terrified to lose this job that they've essentially sacrificed their youth for and don't even necessarily like. You don't want to be 40, successful yet purposeless with the extent of your accomplishments being m&a deals, it's a bleak reality - a lot more so than you'd think when entering the industry. At that point you are truly fucked because you'll have a family and a lifestyle that you need to keep up with, leaving your job for something better isn't just a risk - it's a serious and potentially permenant readjustment of your families income and thus quality of living. Whatever pay cut you take today will ultimately be less than 1% of the value of self fulfillment and happiness in 10-20 years.
I want to offer a counterpoint - yes, it is true there are are MDs who unnaturally fixate on minor things that make juniors life hell, but to a certain extent, it also comes from a place that an MD has worked his way up, and it is his reputation on the line when presenting to clients, so it does matter to them to show that his team is excellent, so initial impression is that the bank / PE firm / MD is also excellent.
As an ex IBD analysis and now at PE D/MD level, i find myself also focusing on details, because it is without a doubt details matter, especially in making a first impression, and also to ensure a lasting impression that the team and firm behind my pitches are excellent at the minimum. Then you have to find a balance between continually fixating on details vs. spending time on more substantive work.
As an additional reference, i do find that compared to my analyst /asso days, the level of attention to detail and pride in quality of work has declined substantially, so you shouldnt really complain either, especially with all the tools available to you nowadays
See where you’re coming from and understand. I should have emphasized this part more: throughout the years I have seen MDs put (others’) blood, sweat and tears into books only to go fumble a meeting / bake off because they are either 1) Irrelevant in their sector 2) Unprepared 3) Combination of both.
Then I have noticed another subset of MD who wants good work but their focus is more toward overall preparation, if that makes sense. It helps that the ones I have experienced usually have deals in market, are active and worth talking to.
The MDs in the 1st paragraph usually have something in common that the ones in 2nd don’t (generalization from my experience): obsession with the pages themselves rather than their understanding of the business / situation / etc.
Visual appeal and attention to detail are important for two reasons - first, if you can’t get the small things right you won’t get the big things right and second, you want the audience focused on the substance not some stupid mistake or bad formatting.
That said, it’s only the mediocre MDs who obsess about this stuff. The rainmakers realrely have long presentations to begin with.
Congrats on UBS!
Nothing wrong with attention to detail. I'd argue if I'm giving comments on formatting or foot notes then the associate and VP have failed in their job.
In an ideal world, I'd only focus on the big picture and strategic stuff, but I'm not going to ignore mistake in a client book that others haven't picked up.
If that angers you then this isn't the industry for you.
Anyone in this industry should have attention to detail. If you can't do that then go work in marketing or recruitment.
I think you have a pretty warped view of things. Have been in this industry longer than my title would suggest. I have seen a consistent theme where MDs who do turns just to…do turns are almost never rainmakers, have only seen a few rare exceptions and have been at two “top” banks.
The MDs I work for who actually perform typically just tell us what they want, we do it, make some revisions and then it is done. The difference is likely that they can articulate what they want / have something interesting to talk about. Some MDs use books as a crutch. Especially if they don’t have anything in / coming to market or are just irrelevant in their space (which is the majority).
If I worked with more of these types I would leave the industry; not sure I would go to marketing though, was kind of an odd comment. I primarily work for two well credentialed MDs and books are not their main concern. Especially discussion materials that are usually not important.
If you actually are an MD (can’t really tell from your post history) then you know most advisory bake offs are won before the books are printed.
That wasn't your point though was it?
If all MDs have is books for content then agreed there's a problem there.
Again agreed that MDs whose only comments are mundane then that's an issue.
But don't think for a second that any MD worth their salt is going to put sloppy work product in front of clients.
If that genuinely upsets you then there's a fundamental disconnect between your expectations of output and the reality.
Agree that most pitches are won before the bake off. And I've also seen mandates won from great pitches that werent favourites and favourites losing pitches to sloppy work. Never take the chance, turn up, everytime.
P.S. Always love people trying to throw shade. Seems to be a trend among those with weak arguments on here.
You gotta clarify what you mean here. Are you talking about MDs that spend all day debating whether the harvey ball for m&a runway should be 3/4 or 1/2? Or are you talking about MD losing his shit over misaligned footnotes and inconsistent font colors. If the former, I agree with you. If the latter I must say MD is absolutely correct and the ASO/VP probably failed their jobs. Misaligned footnote is embarrasing even for sophomore stock pitches.
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