Shut the fuck up about Bank of America
I see this retarded take over and over again about how people are mad Bank of America doesn't fire off layoffs constantly so bonuses would go up by +20% at best (my bonus as a mid bucket VP when compared to what I heard from other banks).
I genuinely cannot believe how stupid you have to be to want this at a company you work for. We are among the best paid people in the entire world and you people keep trying to get Bank of America to lay people off to get a few thousand dollars more.
This is even more stupid to me because as someone who has been impacted by a layoff at another BB, being a victim is largely not even performance or culture driven, its a stupid baby boomer stock market manipulating Russian roulette game from the 80s that actually destroys lives.
Its fun to advocate for this as a "top bucket" associate till you get a random email invite to a meeting with HR and you have to have to immediately leave the building, this is literally what happened to me and many people in my team, not because we were not high performers or our teams deals were down, it was just we were more unlucky than other teams.
I saw some of my friends from other teams on visas have their lives upended and genuinely exceptional juniors flame out of the industry through no fault of their own.
Its easy to think if you survived layoffs its because you are doing something right but unless you're a trader you're wrong.
Bank of America and Apple are the two large F500 companies left where you can become a millionaire in a relatively short time in a clear linear fashion, no other companies do this anymore to my knowledge, I don't understand why it rubs people the wrong way so much so they are foaming at the mouth for the day it becomes like the other shitty companies controlled by "shareholders".
The boomers took career stability away from us after they enjoyed it so it is very annoying to see young people calling for them to destroy companies that still offer this route.
The dumbest of the bunch are people who currently work at Bank of America saying they want this to begin at the bank when they can simply leave to JPM or GS because I have seen the biggest complainers make the move, do exceptionally well in those companies, then in turn get laid off and ask my team to take them back, which almost never works so they go and work in some shitty corp fin role.
It is extremely likely this vocal desire on the internet is making it back to execs and it will only be a matter of time before they listen.
You will be surprised who reads the things you post online.
My brother in christ, I think you need to take your medication and re-write whatever you were trying to convey in that mumbo jumbo you just wrote. Seems u just mad at everyone.
Not sure if you’re just trying to dunk on me because you disagree, if so then fair play.
If you really don’t understand what I wrote then you should work on your comprehension skills
I can understand your response since it seems you have taken your pills today. K thx
You woke up today and decided to cry about people crying about Bank of America. Do I have that right or am I missing something?
I can see why you were fired
This is the mistake I made and many juniors do too. Getting fired is not the same as getting laid off.
I used to make fun on laid off bankers here too because I kept getting exceeds expectations in my review till it hit my team.
Clamoring for Bank of America to introduce layoffs to get a slightly higher bonus is ridiculous.
Especially when as a BB if you’re tired of working here pivoting to JPM or GS is relatively simple.
I am saying they should either leave or STFU before they ruin the culture
Not that easy to pivot from BofA to JPM/GS classic coverage groups. Don’t kid yourself.
Sir this is a Wendy’s
This is a finance focused website, and OP is posting about a bank's specific approach to layoffs. This is as relevant as it possibly could be. Also, this joke stopped being funny a decade ago, save your key strokes with your mid commentary
People have been griping about this issue for a few years, including directly to BofA HR, and nothing has changed. I doubt a few people venting on WSO will change the tide.
I don’t think it’s people clamoring for employees to get fired as much as the people pulling their weight just wanting to be paid fairly. If BofA can pay everyone market value while not firing anyone… great. But as someone in a group that brings in deals and is grinding, it’s frustrating to look around and see people doing literally nothing all day and taking advantage of the system, and all of us getting paid peanuts. I’m definitely quitting this year, because the firm basically encourages laziness and doing the least amount of work possible.
You’re giving the bottom performers at BofA too much credit… because of the A&A protections, a lot of them abuse the system and get away with not responding and screwing over their teams. The people who actually try but are less competent or less lucky than some others are not even close to the first ones that would get the axe.
Garbage truck comp is $300k. You can become a millionaire faster by driving garbage trucks than getting BofA associate comp.
And the chance of getting a blood clot from too much sitting / overwork is similar!
What are the exit opps though
WTF!
I'd actually be a garbage man for 300k. If you give me a place to sign up, I'll do it right now
This is nuclear Stockholm syndrome that happens when you've been treated like Marcellus Wallace in pulp fiction for longer than a year. This is well documented in the medical literature
Pray for OP and the bridge he lives under
It is Not extremely likely that this vocal desire on the internet is making it back to execs or that they would even care at all about people crying on the internet about hiring / firing decisions and so on.
Adults and leadership do not make decisions based on 23 year olds aggressively typing their thoughts online lol. Just relax mate, go out once in awhile.
I was never in tech but people said the same thing about those stupid tik toks juniors kept posting around COVID about how chill working in tech was.
It got its way to execs now tech has been decimated and the same Reddit brained try hard comp sci grads are crying now that it doesn’t pay as much
I see BOFA going down the same route after Brian retires
The culture today will be seen as the good old days
We are absolutely NOT among the best paid people in the world anymore. It's not 1986.
We are getting paid less than someone at Wendy's, on an hourly basis. I am up at 6am to host a random conference call, to add insult to injury.
Illiterate 18 year olds showing skin on OnlyFans make 6 times what we make, in only a month.
BofA is a trainwreck and a Female MBA magnet.
I'd rather work as Steven Seagal's personal accountant at this point.
You must come from an extremely privileged background if you believe that.
The average income in New York (state) is around 50k and in NYC is around 90k
If you think 300k+ at 25 isn’t a among the best paid then I don’t know what to tell you
If only it were $300k+ at 25. Aso1 EMs made $250k. Still far above average but far below market pay.
Some of these posts are dramatic but I get the premise. At what point does working in IB, particularly at a place like BofA, not make sense anymore.
I am not sure why juniors continue putting up with 90+ hour weeks making bonuses 20% of base salary. The labor market likely hasn’t baked in these new pay levels yet. Most people in IB wash out by the VP/D level anyways, and you can make 80% as much money working 40 hours per week in some random corporate job during that span.
Like I said, if it bothers them so much they should leave and go to JPM
They are leaving. Not just to GS/JPM but to literally any other bank. BofA is stuck with so much bloat in groups like EGRC, TMT NY, C&R.
EGRC is basically a cost center for the bank, in order to bring in tiny capital markets fees for CBK.
Nobody wants to read your shit OP. Next time add a hook and make it more suspenseful
Stopped reading at “Bank of America and Apple are the two large F500 companies left where you can become a millionaire in a relatively short time in a clear linear fashion, no other companies do this anymore to my knowledge,”
Lmfaoo nice Troll shitpost!
This is 100% a troll
A cry for help from a VP that would clearly be caught up in the lay-offs if BofA were to do them.
Idk how you can’t work at a financial institution and not want lazy fucks who don’t contribute / are worse than the mean or median to get fired (in cases where there is bloated and general underperformance as a result).
Sure, this is easy to say as a junior and once were mid level we’ll want some security too, but still.
In an ideal world I wouldn’t be caught up in layoffs.
I got exceeds expectations which is very tough to get at the bank during my review and have had some discussions about a promotion and my team is doing well pipeline wise.
I do have associates under me who aren’t pulling their weight but I pick up where they slack.
The thing with layoffs is that it has nothing to do with your individual performance and is solely a way to ease cost for shareholders.
You sound like how smug I was before I got laid off as an associate.
Saying I might be affected by a layoff is not the zinger you think it is.
Again your comment reads like many have I have personally made on this site and I cringe at them now.
I have lots of “found the bottom bucket” jokes I made when I used to read about people freaking out about layoffs
Getting fired is one thing, getting laid off is a travesty
I conceded it came from a position of a junior who is protected vs. a role where it’s harder to demonstrate value.
I still think it’s rational and fair to want firms to cut mid-levels who crush juniors and drag down comp for anyone else when they’re non-producers.
I have never met a VP or higher who refers to their performance as "exceeds expectations." That's what my 1st grader gets told. While you can extrapolate that from points/ratings systems, I don't know anyone at more senior levels who defaults to that as a speaking point. What year in HS are you actually in?
100% agree with you after going through a similar situation. I was informed in reviews that I am meeting expectations and am on track for VP promo. 2 months later, situation changed was laid off sighting low deal flow. Was repeatedly assured that layoff wasn’t performance driven and more like “LIFO”, also was paid 90% of my target bonus. While I was pissed at the layoff, the money was right up there…
Agree with OP. Have three close friends working at BofA, and they chose it over other firms primarily for its relatively better work-life balance and less cut-throat environment. While BofA may never be the top firm on Wall Street, it also doesn’t seem to be striving for that position—rather boasting of a more sustainable work environment. Yes, it comes with its con but that's a strategy that has led them to attract talent looking for a sustainable banking career, and IMO, that's not completely wrong either.
I understand your point but do not fully agree. Several of BofA’s busy groups are extremely sweaty, and leadership consistently harps on competing with the top BBs. The bank is notorious for actively punishing top performers/groups, paying poorly, and having very high turnover amongst its groups.
I think what you describe does exist, but moreso at a place like Citi, Wells Fargo or RBC. These banks pay way better than BofA and seem to be more efficient and “know their place” in the pecking order. Way less turnover too.
So should incomings take RBC over UBS or BofA
UBS used to be a reputable name, but unfortunately not anymore. BofA is still top 3 or 4 in txn volumes. RBC on the other hand is killing it in PUI. Choose wisely.
If you’re an analyst here for the short term brand and deal reps - BofA
If you’re in banking for the longer term, want to be paid fairly for your efforts, and don’t care about prestige - RBC/UBS
I started at the former and ended up at somewhere like the latter. BofA definitely has a better brand name and deal flow, but you leave a lot of money on the table relative to street if you stay there at the mid levels. The bank has always been on the lower end of market pay (as are most BBs), but the past two years bonuses have been nowhere close to competitive, at all levels.
So is there a case to ever take BofA over the other two mid-tier BB’s now that are known to pay better and have better culture for similar brand rep and exits?
You should take going to medical school and being a doctor. Cheers.
Can this forum please stop exaggerating how bad BOFA is? I swear this forum has a new bank to hate on every few months, before this it was UBS and even before that it was RBC, which I guess checks out since those are the other two banks mentioned here.
Objectively, BofA offers more deal exposure than UBS or RBC. UBS’s best groups might be competitive groups but not number one anywhere, while BofA is stronger in UBS's strongest sector of LevFin for example where BOFA is a top 2 franchise in volume. RBC’s strongest group, M&A, is outclassed by BofA, and PU&I, isn't particularly relevant given its niche nature and exits being almost solely infra (BOFA has a competitive if not better franchise here anyway).
And since exits are what most people on this forum care about: BofA exits better than both RBC and UBS, period. The strongest UBS groups place in line with BofA’s average groups, but BofA’s top groups exit better. RBC’s exits are even weaker, making it an even worse choice for those prioritizing buy-side recruiting that make up most of this forum.
At the end of the day, BofA is simply a stronger platform in terms of deal flow, group strength, and exits. For a prospect or intern looking to use IB for exits and experience, it’s irrational to choose UBS or RBC over BofA. A more accurate ranking would be: BofA Top Groups > UBS Top Groups = BofA Average Groups > RBC M&A > UBS Average Groups > RBC Average Groups.
All of the above is true but mostly applies to analysts looking to exit after 2 years. I agree unequivocally that BofA is a better choice in that case.
However, if you’re a mid level looking to build a career in banking (ASO, VP, D) the other two banks pay way better and I’d argue treat their mid-levels a bit better and have better culture. A BofA associate literally died last year, the A&As are insanely protected to the point where people take advantage of it, and the bank is bloated/pays poorly particularly at the mid levels. People should be made aware of these issues before they decide where to go.
I'm tired of motherfuckers in school tellin' me, always in the barbershop
"BofA ain't 'bout this, BofA ain't 'bout that"
My boy a BD, on fuckin' Deutsche and them
They say that bank don't be puttin' in no work
Shut the fuck up, y'all prospects ain't know shit
All y'all motherfuckers talkin' about "BofA ain't no hitter, BofA ain't this, BofA a fake"
Shut the fuck up, y'all don't live with that bank
Y'all know that bank got caught with a ratchet
Shootin' at the police and shit
Bank been on probation since, fuckin', I don't know when
Motherfucker, stop fuckin' playin' them like that
Them bankers savages out there
If I catch another motherfucker talkin' sweet about BofA
I'm fuckin' beatin' they ass
I'm not fuckin' playin' no more
Know them banks roll with GS and them
When Deloitte was suffering during covid, the CEO wrote an email to employees asking them whether the firm can cut their salaries for couple of months so they don't have to lay off its employees. All employees agreed.
I know it's just Deloitte. Banks are here to eat people alive.
As was rehashed several times around WSO - people are not holding pitchforks advocating for firings at BofA like your post claims. The people pulling their weight are just frustrated and just want to be paid market value for their efforts. After getting a garbage bonus working 80 hours per week all year, it’s even more frustrating to look around and see people doing literally nothing all day and making almost the same bonus.
The common rebuttal is “oh just leave to GS/JP if you want to go somewhere cutthroat.” I cannot stress this enough - it’s just just GS or JP that thins the herd once in a while, it’s literally EVERY OTHER BANK besides BofA. The banks do this for good reason. Fair point that if people are frustrated, they should leave. But it was extremely difficult to leave last year because no firms were hiring (and some people still somehow managed to get out). This year, they are hiring so there will be a ton of exits at the mid levels.
I agree that not every investment bank needs to be as cutthroat as GS or evercore or whatever. But when people sign up to work in investment banking, people have an expectation going in that it’s a competitive and difficult job, and there’s a financial reward for your efforts. Banking is not expected to be a 9-5 job, which some people at BofA work (or even less). BofA violates all of these expectations and is a good example of how socialism doesn’t work in the long run.
I also hear the argument that layoffs are random, it’s unfortunate for people who try hard and just get unlucky, etc. This argument gives bottom performers at BofA way too much credit. There are swaths of people there doing LITERALLY NOTHING other than taking up space and eating into the bonus pool. There are juniors that take advantage of the protections and literally don’t try. There are talentless MDs that do nothing and have nothing in their pipelines and just tag onto capital market fees (probably the worst offenders since they come at $500k/pop). If you’re trying hard and just less competent, you’re not even close to the first one on the chopping block.
People with differing opinions on this topic are either people who want to be lazy, or they don’t work at BofA and don’t know the whole story.
OP here again,
It’s funny that people assume that i must be an under-performer because I don’t want layoffs.
You may be a but young to have never experienced it but as that comment said layoffs are luck based only.
It’s either you have bloat of you have layoffs, in these things there is no middle ground.
It’s easy to stomp your feet and demand for layoffs because you think your skills will somehow spare you and that shows your inexperience in these things.
What happens when you get the email that you’re being let go as a top performer only to be replaced by the very same people you thought were dead weight but in the banks eyes could manage your job for cheaper.
Most ex JPM and GS bankers like myself who have been victims of this and moved to BoFA understand the absurdity.
It’s only people who haven’t worked elsewhere that keep fighting for it.
Plus you shot yourself in the foot a bit, if every other bank operates like this then they have even more options and coming from BoFA I’m sure it wouldn’t be hard to get a place in Lincoln or Baird or RBC
Instead they dig their heels in and refuse to leave and insist BoFAs culture changes
It reminds me of immigration running away from Islamic extremism only to demand shariah law in their new host country
It’s the exact same mindset.
I can guarantee you that most people calling for layoffs will be laid off themselves if BoFA ever adopts this model, like we said it’s easy to think you can outperform a layoff and everyone else is just stupid till it’s you
It happened to me at my previous role and I hate it
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