TCU vs SMU IB?
I am curious to see why people tend to say SMU is much better than TCU for IB placement. The most recent TCU Neely employment report shows that 29% of finance majors (121) get into IB/PE. SMU does not have specific information, aside that all of the kids in Alts place. I am a potential transfer and I am leaning towards TCU because of the data. I have seen posts stating that both have OCR and both have strong pipelines. The employment reports are extremely similar. I speculate that TCU has picked up recently, and that SMU gets more praise because they have more alumni in IB. If anybody has information on something that I may be missing, please let me know.
Del
SMU sends way more people to IB and is actually a semi target for some banks, even in NYC
TCU sends way less people and is only a target for like a couple Houston banks. In terms of culture, both schools are very similar although I prefer TCU
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SMU objectively has better placements. Just this year, kids have gone to
Houston - Jefferies, BOA, Intrepid, Houlihan, & more
NY - Citi, Guggenheim, Centerview
If your goal is banking, you would be crazy not to go to SMU. Culture of sweatiness throughout the recruitment process and alumni networking is incredible. A quick LinkedIn search will show you that TCU has next to nothing by way of alumni, even in Houston.
Yes, I was confused a bit when I searched LinkedIn. The most recent employment report I can find for Neeley a total of 29% of 412 finance grads went to work in IB/PE.
I’m not sure if that is simply a lie, or if people are going into sales&trading and claiming investment banking. The avg starting salary says 107 and change, so I would think they are actually going into IB.
I am considering that as a transfer TCUs TIP program may be less competitive than SMUs alts.
Im assuming this just because TCU is less competitive than Cox.
I have read that transfers have a really hard time getting into alts, I have not read anything about Neely.
would smu without alts still be better than TCU TIP?
If it is really a night and day decision, I will choose SMU.
thank you for the replies.
Because “IB/PE” includes “Bob Capital” and any other company that flips residential real estate and calls it “private equity”
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All of the above posters are correct. SMU by a mile in this case. Killer placement in Houston if that’s your thing and great alumni presence at top banks in NYC: GS TMT, MS M&A, Centerview, PJT, Evercore, Moelis, etc. plus alumni in (non O&G) PE at Advent, Warburg, Bain, Clearlake and a ton I’m missing
Mainly looking in Houston, dollar goes way farther.
thank you for the input. I was a bit mislead I guess by the Neeley employment report I guess.
The Alts program is actually not that hard to get into, it’s mostly GPA-based and effort-based. If you do enough mock interviews with current Alts members, you will get in.
The value of Alts is that it’s an IB prep boot-camp. You’ll be running full on LBOs, DCFs, even restructuring cap tables in different case studies for a whole semester. This unique level of preparedness is why SMU has steadily risen in prestige in the banking world.
Wherever you want to go, I personally guarantee SMU has connections. You said Houston - there isn’t a single bank in Houston without at least one high-up SMU alum, and I’m not exaggerating. This place grinds out bankers, especially if you join the Greek Life scene, which actually has pipelines within the fraternities into some of the top groups in the country.
TCU is so jealous of SMU that they even poached our football coach. Hopefully that tells you everything you need to know lol
To add to Alts....also another opportunity to add to your resume that SMU provides if your goal is Houston is the Spindletop Fund...it's like every other student run investment fund (that SMU also offers at both the undergrad and grad level) but is focused entirely on the energy industry and there is a ton of alumni that were Spindletop members. SMU grad school alum here, and I was jealous because my undergrad did not have anything similar. There are some TCU kids in the Houston banks for sure, but they have to hustle a little bit more to make it, while SMU has an incredible OCR presence that eliminates a couple of the hurdles.
Do you happen to know which fraternities are the most plugged-in when it comes to finance post-grad?
What frats would you say have those pipelines? I’ve applied to transfer to SMU and think I have a pretty good shot.
What frats would you say have those pipelines? I’ve applied to transfer to SMU and think I have a pretty good shot.
Since all the posters seem to be SMU alums, I will go ahead and represent the TCU TIP Board argument.
The TIP Board places very well in Houston, this years class has placed at BofA, Citi, TPH, Gugg, among others. Citi's Global Head of Natural Resources is a TCU alum for example. So to make the statement SMU is head and shoulders above TCU in Houston is crazy to me.
Where I do think SMU performs better is NYC placement, we only have about a dozen or so in NYC BBs/EBs (GS, JPM, BofA, Citi and EVR) - Take a look at the Neeley TIP Board website for reference. However NYC placement continues to grow every year so while I can agree SMU current state is better than TCUs, I don't believe its light years ahead.
And lastly...we went to the Natty in Football what did y'all do?
TIP Board representation: Go to SMU. The representation of NYC IB from TIP is mostly diversity/lateral candidates during 2021. TIP probably only has non-diversity pipelines into Piper Sandler and CS FIG (rip). If you’re diversity, TCU/SMU shouldn’t be a choice; go to where you fit best. If you’re non-diversity, please go to SMU. Not worth the extra mile to NYC IB in TIP.
With that said, TCU’s culture is way better than SMU. Worked with a few SMU people whom I wouldn’t say are my favorite people; they’re all stuck up in some ways. TCU people are much more chill and way less competitive against each other. Take that what you will. Finance hardos will be on cloud nine at SMU. If you identify as one, go to SMU.
All very factual statements - TCU reigns supreme at overall culture. But the hardos at SMU do end up at the better shops. Pick the spot with best fit/cost for your situation.
I can honestly say I have never met someone from SMU that I liked. Not in banking, just in general.
Ha that's fair.
Snow Mountain University
Currently a TCU student that has placed into IB in Houston. I would recommend going to the school that fits you best in terms of culture and location. Neither school has enough pull to make a material difference in terms of recruiting and it will ultimately be up to you if you want to break into IB.
There can’t be that much differentiation on fit here, right? Both schools seem to attract the same types of students who couldn’t get into the their state school. I’m sure one is more Dallas and the other more Ft worth but, the students are the same.
both schools have 50% plus admissions rates which is horrendous
Agree with this - stats on incoming students and acceptance rates are pretty similar
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As someone who went to neither and works in houston - some of the SMU “facts” are straight nonsense
Top banks might do first rounds at SMU (or coffee chats) - they are not doing superdays on campus (this only happens for UT / Rice from what I’ve heard)…houston banks have always done large superdays where they invite candidates to the office
i would dig into the stats a little bit more from SMU. Centerview / PJT is very selective and if they’re taking an SMU kid - it’s diversity or client connection (not that it doesn’t happen at TCU, etc)
the group heads at Citi and (co group head?) at Jefferies are TCU guys.
Ok this is not true. SMU has a direct pipeline to Centerview - they do an info session on campus. Last guy I know that went there was a white guy, just insanely smart and hard working.
I checked the Alts website - direct pipeline is such a lie and hyperbole.
2 people in 4 years.
not much of a pipeline kid.
Edit: kid you are such a liar. The intern this year is diversity too!!
Chill out kid, these data points won’t prove your point and talking down on other schools won’t make SMU look better. What you need to do is to focus on your upcoming summer internships, do a good job so you can pave the way for people behind you like the Centerview guy you talked to.
Arguing with people on WSO doesn't help and shows insecurity
Fwiw I had networked last year with an SMU guy from centerview before he left and he was super nice and didn’t have a background in finance (not a connection hire). Idk about campus recruiting but sounded like cvp had started taking more SMU kids in the last couple years
The co-head of upstream at JefCo is a TCU alum - the guy is absolutely killing it.
I was in your position ~10 years ago and chose to transfer to SMU which absolutely helped me get into IB (NYC).
SMU is far better placement. Unless it's changed recently, the Alts selection process is in the fall of junior year, so you'll hopefully have an internship locked down by then - and people outside of Alts do place, you're not reliant on the program for OCR or anything. It's just that most people who are qualified for IB (GPA/recruiting prep/networking) tend to do well in the Alts process too which is why there's so much overlap. If you have a good GPA and are already prepping for IB, Alts won't be that difficult of a process.
TCU does place better than it used to but IMO only worth heading to if you really love TCU, or if you get a significant scholarship and SMU is full pay. TCU you will generally have to hustle a bit more.
TCU and SMU are good for bros seeking Dallas GSAM money for non-op E&P lifestyle vehicles. That’s about it.
I’m getting an MBA anyway. So would that still matter? Would you say vandy full tuition is a better opportunity? I’m getting half tuition at TCU and SMU.
Tough one. Vandy suffers from being in Tennessee just like Tulane suffers from being in New Orleans. If you have good aid package at SMU I think it’s ok for undergrad, it is blessed by the Texas economy just like UT and A&M for that matter. Personally, I could never go to a school with 50% acceptance rate and feel good about it but that’s just me. If there are other options, try to consider higher quality schools in better states/cities for jobs.
Bro are you serious. I would take Vandy full pay at a heart beat over these. Vandy has national and even global prestige. I need some of what you're smoking
That seems a bit pessimistic.
That sounds like a great life too tbh.
Went to neither but live and work in Dallas in buyside RE after working in IB after college.
SMU kids suck (personality wise) and the school has a shitty culture, but it’s an easy choice over TCU in terms of school rep and placement into finance. TCU is kinda seen as a joke around here imo (in much the same way as A&M, you know when someone is a TCU grad, whereas for SMU it’s more “that makes sense, but didn’t realize they went there”), while SMU is more “okay school, but the kids are all snobby”
Truthfully I would go to neither (or any non UT/Rice Texas school), but if you have to pick SMU is the easy choice even just on location.
Vandy no aid is a consideration.
I have read that SMU is more snobby.
You need help. You’re guessing you have a full ride at vandy or you already do and magically forgot?
obviously take the full ride
Easy decision when you consider what SMU and TCU kids have in common.
Both applied to SMU
Don't forget that both got into TCU as well
More like both got rejected from UT.
Part of me regrets not applying. I am oos so I assumed no shot. I have a 3.88
Both have 50% plus admission rates which is not even remotely selective, so they get into both and like someone said, they both don’t get into UT Austin and forget about Rice (although neither UT or Rice are impressive either).
By that logic not a single school was selective/impressive when you went to college.
Recent SMU grad here in NYC IB. SMU is unequivocally better for IB/PE both for Houston and NYC placements. As others have said, getting into Alts is really the main hurdle. Even then, it’s really not too difficult — get a 3.7 GPA by the time of Alts interviews during spring of Sophomore year and don’t be a total goober. Alts does a really good job of getting students access to OCR/interviews and building connections with folks at different firms. At this point, it’s really on you to ace the interview. With regards to TCU, they can slice the data however they want, but it’s pretty undeniable that SMU has a better IB presence at top firms. From the perspective of a prospect, it’s really just a numbers game as you want to connect with as many Alums as possible in the hopes that you’ll find someone who can vouch for your during the interview process.
I don’t know how the programs would work for me, I’d be transferring in as a 2nd semester sophomore. So hopefully they will let me apply, I’ll ask. A commenter above said alts is not necessary, just a lot of overlap. I have a 3.88
I just took note of the average sat at the schools. makes it a bit more clear. Thanks for your input.
Any appetite to extend graduation one semester and recruit for the following summer? Recruiting as a brand new transfer during 2nd semester sophomore year is going to be really really difficult regardless of school.
Your networking emails in the fall won't get many responses if you don't currently attend, you will miss all the on-campus info sessions during sophomore fall, you won't have a GPA from that school etc. If there's any way you can transfer in the fall I would. Otherwise I'd look into doing 1 extra semester - right now you're just transferring too late to take advantage of resources for recruiting, regardless of school.
As someone already mentioned, I’d do everything possible to extend your graduation in order to avoid having to interview immediately after transferring. There are people who have done this in the past. I’ve really never heard of someone without a family connection / diversity status breaking into IB as a non-Alts student. I’m sure it happens ….. just really rare and not something I would count on.
Neither school is sending kids to solid PE after IB in NYC unless diversity candidate.
SMU has a joke rep in NYC. Backup school for kids who couldn’t get into BC.
This dude always has hot takes, even when facts say otherwise.
Some recent SMU PE placements: Advent, Warburg, Bain Cap, Stonepeak, Clearlake, TA Associates, Madison Dearborn, all non energy, plus have alums in Blackstone Energy and Apollo NR
Dude this is your 6th comment on this topic in 48 hours. You are taking time out of your day to search LinkedIn/school websites so you can argue with 19/20 year olds on the internet about a random university that you didn’t attend. Is this really how you spend your free time?
I have a friend who went Dallas GS from SMU, this was about 5 years ago too
Let’s be real they’re both not great business schools
Not likely that either are first choice for many.
Ironic coming from the A&M guy. Always get that school confused with Texas Tech.
No dog in the fight here but this is absurd coming from an Aggie
TCU > Michigan
Based
Just pick a school that is not SMU or TCU with better placement prospects. It’s not rocket science
Why the MS? The guy is not wrong
SMU babies throwing MS at everybody that don’t put them in high regard
Because it’s glaringly obvious and meant to be insulting. Provides no value.
This thread is entertainment. Word of advice is to not flex on going to SMU/TCU in NYC or someone will think you have an STD at the bar and suggest going to CityMD to get checked out.
Come on, there’s limit on how far school pride can go in IB. Anyone else heard the name TCU for the first time? Anyone arguing TCU to be a target should go straight to the nearest ICU for a brain ct
Among those who spend time around SMU grads/students, I would say going to SMU is arguably a negative mark due to the (deserved) stereotypes on the culture/personality of the school. Have to prove you aren't just another out of touch underachiever like many from the school. Outside of Texas I would argue it actually has a better rep than within the state (among non SMU/Cox grads). It's a good school, but it's also very much so a school that caters to rich but still reasonably smart kids that want to have fun.
TCU doesn't have quite the same negative stigma, but also it's seen as being a clearly worse school. Outside of Texas I don't think anyone had ever given them a second thought before the natty. Inside of Texas it's not seen as being as good as SMU.
If your aim is to do IB, SMU and it's not close, but you have to be careful you don't let the rest of the student body rub off on you.
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