Western Ivey vs Queens Smith
I know there’s a million posts about this online but I can’t get to a conclusion.
As a route towards US Investment Banking and/or Private Equity, is it more worth it to do 4 years at Ivey and try to pursue a US boutique as many Ivey students do?
Or is it more worth it to go to Queens Smith, and grind out the first 1-2 years and attempt to transfer to a prestigious US school like Wharton, HBS, Yale, Stanford?
I’m leaning towards Queen’s Smith because Ivey is a 2+2 program where the first 2 years is at Western University, which will probably significantly lower my chances at getting transferred to a good US school as Western is a pretty weak school, where as Queens Smith starts immediately and is seen as very close to the level of Ivey.
Anyone who went down a similar path have any advice?
If your goal is to end up in US investment banking then I would say Ivey is better. If you get into Ivey (even into queens) you wouldn’t need to transfer to a better school since a lot of its students end up a top banks in the US and especially Evercore
Thanks for the comment. I know that Ivey is better but a lot of people online say Ivey doesn’t even compare to US targets.
Queens smith tranfer to US vs. regular western for first 2 years doesnt matter. Get a 4.0 and make the move it wont be different from either school, they don't care about Queens' business school when admitting transfer students. Ivey is the superior option for US recruiting especially as of late. IMO it flipped around 2020 to Queens but has since flipped back to Ivey. People are going to say 'oh u can just recruit from Ivey to the US, no need to transfer to a US target blah blah' and I respectfully disagree (assuming cost is not an issue). If you can afford it, transferring to a top US school, even a lower ivy like Cornell is 1000% worth it.
From my understanding, your saying going to queens and transferring is a better option? Or that it doesn’t matter between queens smith and regular western? Also apparently western makes it hard for you to have a high gpa by curving your grade to their discretion, but queens helps you get higher grades.
I’ve also heard that it’s hard to get into clubs if you’re a transfer student so you will be on your own and will miss out a lot of recruiting opportunities, not exactly sure about this??
I’m a queens commerce graduate and I would recommend Ivey. The queens bell curve makes it harder to achieve a higher GPA - similar to the stern curve. The class average is bell curved to a 72%. At western, 80% of the Ivey class has a 3.7 GPA. It’s kinda bullshit tbh, because your gpa at Ivey for OCR is based on your non Ivey GPA which can be a random liberal arts focus for the first two years. It’s a lot harder to get that gpa at Queens commerce because you start out with all the commerce classes earlier on and second year of Queen’s commerce is a lot harder.
Would also not worry too too much about getting into the clubs at Ivey because the clubs at Queens are way harder to get into because OCR at Queen’s is more club based than Ivey. For the US you need to be on QUIC or Limestone because they gatekeep those opportunities for club members. For Ivey, not so much. They’re still competitive but not as vital to be on as Queen’s.
no lol what im saying go to ivey and transfer if u get good grades and can afford it. also u dont need clubs if ur at a target US school, they matter at Ivey/Queens but its the same either way. also no its not harder to get a 4.0 vs. a 4.3 at Queens (since they use 4.3 scale), just take a relatively easy course 2y pre ivey and u can get high marks. but lmao no idk where u got me saying i think u should go to queens from, im saying that unis in the US do not care about the Smith Buinsess School name over, say, Western Econ for the purposes of transferring
.
I'll bite as I'm an MD at a PE firm in Toronto and have hired from both schools. This is a generalization but has held true across my hiring:
1. Kids from Queens seem to come from money/private school backgrounds. Sure there are lots of smart, type-A students but I feel like there is an attitude of arrogance at this school.
2. Ivey: I've had three interview candidates call Ivy "the Harvard of Canada" and I immediately ended the interview. There are kids from all different socio-economic backgrounds but they pump themselves up way too much based on their school feeding into a lot of banks down in the U.S...In terms of curriculum however, I'd say you actually learn more at Queen's and Ivey is too focused on seminars.
Super curious about your thoughts on other Canadian schools. This lines up 100% with my experience: Queen's kids are pampered, Ivey kids are douchey.
Have you hired from UBC/McGill/WLU?
Had very good experience from Waterloo. Didn't find Laurier grads to be that quantitative. Didn't take interviews from McGill or UBC.
Why would someone say Ivey is Harvard of Canada to someone in Canada? If you're in Canada, it doesn't make sense to brag about how good your school is since everyone already knows about it.
Not an MD in PE but wholeheartedly agree with your takes.
Queen's is a mixed bag - almost all kids seem to be extremely privileged and some are unbearable, others are very crisp and put together. In general, very white. Ivey seems to be the way for second generation immigrants to break into finance. Some are unbelievably arrogant, others are reserved and very sharp, way fewer privileged upbringings.
Salty daddy’s money Queen’s kids throwing MS lolol
Seeing that in my bank - Queens definitely sources more of the nepo / privileged background kids
Analyst 2 as a MD in PE lol
I'm at Ivey right now and I can say that Ivey will give you a much better shot than Queen's to break into the US IB scene.
As people have mentioned, Queen's recruiting is much more based on the clubs you are on like QUIC / Limestone Capital whereas you don't have to be on WIC / IPC to have a chance at breaking into IB in the US.
You said you are not concerned about getting into the prestigious Queen's clubs but you have to consider that there is a large degree of randomness in club admissions as well as nepotism, and I wouldn't want to rely on an admission to a certain club deciding my long-term job prospects.
Then, on your point of transferring to a US school. I think Western would be better because you could take some BS Arts degree and pump up your GPA your first two years as the 80% curve only begins to apply once you join Ivey in 3rd year. The prestige of a school doesn't matter when doing transfer applications. Finally, you also have to realize that transfer spots at these top US schools are very slim.
Another reason as well to pick Western, is that you can do a dual degree option and graduate in 5 years. This will give you an extra summer to re-recruit if you end up going to school in Canada. I hear it is possible now to do a dual degree with Queen's Computing now, but I think it is harder to execute upon whereas with Ivey it is built into the program.
If I were you, I would focus on trying to get into these top US schools directly out of high school, and if not, take a gap year and reapply. The reason being that it would only be worth it to transfer into a top US school to start your sophomore year, as by the start of junior year all the recruiting for your junior summer internship would be over.
Hope this helps.
As a Queens commerce graduate agree with everything said above. The clubs are nepo driven - lots of students from high schools getting pulled in from their private school alumni. The OCR is a bit of a sham as well because again it’s very club based and a lot of these kids have connections at these firms. If you’re not on these clubs no one will help you get into the US, they only help other club members.
Regarding the GPA, the curve screws you way harder than Ivey. Just talk to Queen’s students about second year and the bell curve. It’s much harder to achieve that 3.7-3.8. At Ivey, you can do the liberal arts degree for year 1 and 2 and get that 80% just in time for recruitment. I am kicking myself in the feet for not going to western, even without the AEO I believe I would’ve done better. If you really want the US just apply directly to a US school and make sure it’s stem.
Even if it’s a semi target you’ll do better there than going to a Canadian school because you’ll get OPT (make sure it’s a stem degree, avoid Aerospace engineering due to working restrictions).
Yea stem isn’t an option for me since I didn’t take physics and chemistry. Seems like my goal now is Ivey straight to a US firm.
Thanks for the comment. I would try to apply to the US but US schools calculate all 4 grades of high school into your average. My first 3 years were like 80-85 avg and this year I plan to be at 90-95. So I heard it would be impossible to get into a top US School without a 97-100 avg cumulatively (which is impossible at this point). Also the only people I see getting accepted to US schools have insane extracurriculars, math contest awards, prime minister awards, valedictorian, on top of their 99 avg.
Go to Western to maximize your chances - the high end of placements is about the same from both schools, so if you are the best in your class your outcomes will probably be the same... but given you referenced HBS as an option, I'm not sure you are as overprepared and a lock to be top of your class as you may think you are (the kids you are competing against are also overachievers in highschool)
The alumni network is way more robust at Ivey, given they have +40 qualified and intelligent people entering finance every year with many staying in the industry long term.
From what I've heard about Queen's, the club population makes up about 95% of the kids who are actually capable of getting through US recruiting (the clubs typically miss 1-2 studs every year) - so for those 1-2 kids who get missed by club hiring it is a pain to get to the states, however it still happens. Queen's alumni network is just smaller because there is only 10-15 kids who break in a year (to the states) and the program hasn't been at the top for 40+ years like Ivey.
However, the recruiting competition at Queen's is way weaker - a lot of the class isn't super sweaty and it seems that there is only really 20 (vs 40-50 at Western) or so kids who even reach the level of prep to get through boutique interviews.
As a sidenote, I think everyone saying club hiring is nepo is fairly funny, having had friends on WIC and seeing that process - it is very similar to banking recruiting (network, build a connection, execute on the interview) welcome to real life.
Concordia
Seneca
ivey is more diverse in terms of both ethnic and financial background and it is not cliquey like queens, people hangout with each other and the process of getting in clubs don't feel like frat hazing.
ivey also offers the option to do a dual (CS/Eng + Ivey is a killer combo) and has better reputation both in canada and the us.
obviously it is not as good as ivy league schools but i would take ivey over umich (i might be biased since i went to ivey).
if you have us citizenship you can easily recruit for any BB on the street
I went to Ivey too, and I wouldn't even consider taking ivey over umich.
What if I don’t have US citizenship?
hi, im just wondering why if CS + Ivey would better for IB jobs over the regular BMOS + Ivey?
if cant get into US schools then go to ivey and get into top clubs, but I feel like most US schools will recruit better than Ivey/Queens...
They do. My friend went to Fordham and placed at a few MM’s in the US. Couldn’t get jack shit in Canada.
Well did you go to queens or Ivey?
What about McGill Desautels?
not good for IB.. choose somewhere else
Good internationally but not particularly for finance
Go to ivey. Source: qcomm student with ft offer.
Ivey no doubt in your mind at all.
Minus eum velit labore odio eligendi nihil. Ipsam distinctio debitis sed sit odit et animi temporibus. Et occaecati nesciunt quo sint. Voluptatem quia quo earum.
Voluptatem voluptatum aut quis et earum. Quam accusantium omnis modi quasi. Incidunt ullam aut necessitatibus quasi.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...
Dolorum tenetur sed maxime eum. Atque ut vel minus temporibus vitae inventore. Magnam magnam quis laborum. Sint atque voluptate velit fuga. Culpa sed mollitia cumque. Nam officia eum velit doloribus. Deserunt non quae sed minus maxime nulla.
Distinctio possimus laborum hic est. Incidunt id voluptas consequatur quo labore atque. Consequatur a eum placeat alias neque iure aliquid numquam. Vel doloremque ea praesentium ea sunt et.
Et dolores mollitia sint. Enim et facere saepe illo vitae. Placeat ut officia quis molestiae. Fugit est aperiam omnis.
Officia ipsum quos perspiciatis a harum. Officiis dolores ducimus dolores vel eum. Et dolores nostrum ad.