What Happened with SA 2021?
Not sure if it's just me, but a lot of qualified kids I know (target, non-diversity, put in a ton of work networking, and had their technicals down cold) are just not getting offers or interviews this IB recruiting season. Maybe I'm just looking at a very small sample size, but has anyone else been noticing this as well? Did banks like decrease headcount or something? I'm really curious as to why this is the case. It seems like it's been especially hard to land an offer this summer.
Also, if you're a current junior feeling down about recruiting, feel free to let me know your thoughts below. I know how much it sucks, so glad to be as much of a source of support as I can be.
Have friends with similar backgrounds who all landed BB/EB offers, granted only one or two offers after months of grinding. Tons of other kids at my target missed out but everyone who put the work in was rewarded. Seems like a small sample size as the banks probably only decreased headcount by a little bit to hedge for the 2021 economy. Did they have good behaviorals/fit well? I do agree this year has been a shitshow due to the lack of localized information.
Yeah I honestly think what happened was that there was just even more stark of a divide between the kids who really grinded and the kids who didn't. The banks didn't really tell anyone what was going on so the kids who didn't network got left that much more in the dark. I see at my school now that a ton of non-diversity juniors are freaking out because they missed the boat and they didn't even know
yep exactly. The only reason I was on my game during recruiting and knew what was happening when was a combination of networking, WSO, and sometimes other kids from my school in good clubs who I knew were trying really hard. Aside from that, it was a black box. OCR was a shitshow as my career services canceled all presentations and on-campus interviews. Being virtual meant you couldn't bump into anyone or overhear any conversations or have meetings in investment clubs. If you didn't give a disciplined effort to consistently network, you were shit out of luck.
OCR at my school has been exponentially reduced this season. Will be starting full-time myself, but have friends going through the process now and I am shocked at how few app opportunities are available
I’ve heard from more senior people at a larger bank that they reduced headcount for their 2021 class at least 10-15%. I’ve heard similar things at an EB taking a somewhat smaller class. I’m sure you could extrapolate this to some extent across the street.
I'm a non target student and landed three first rounds and two superdays though I did have a boutique IB internship. Mind you this was for a regional office.
Recruiting sucks ass and irs frustrating to know that I missed out on multiple processes because people didn't respond to my cold emails in time to get me into the process. When they did, they told they would have loved to have me but their seats were filled. Not blaming them. But at the same time, it takes ten seconds to open an email and see in the text that someone is a strong candidate. One banker literally was like I respond to alum right away...but I would have responded to you the first time you contacted me (I followed up w her, this was after we spoke)
Edit: target school alum salty that I got farther in processes than their alum did. same type of people with the EQ to rant about "the world doesn't owe you anything" just bc some Jefferies kid said they're bummed they didn't get a return off
Grow up and get over it.
You deserve nothing. I hope my bank dinged you.
I understand your frustration, but complaining about it isn't going to do anything. It's important to keep things in perspective here, as you're recruiting for one of the most competitive jobs out there. Keep in mind that It's harder to get an IB internship at a BB than Harvard if you look solely at acceptance rate.
Moreover, let's say each banker initially spends 30 minutes per candidate (emails & phone call). Using very conservative numbers, assume that 5% of all applicants get offers (BBs are 5%) and there are 150 SA in each intern class. This means there are 3,000 applications per bank. Now, assume there are 15 coverage/product groups. Using an even distribution (which isn't realistic, since many will be interested in speaking with the same top 5 groups), that leaves 200 applicants per group. Of course every applicant won't get around to every banker in the group, but especially for Analysts, at least half of the 200 applicants should get around speaking to you. Remember we are assuming they are exclusively speaking to that group.
Imagine you are an Analyst and you have 100 candidates reaching out to you within a relatively short time-frame (recruiting season). Assuming you have to spend 30 minutes on each candidate, that's 50 hours of your life that you're spending on these candidates. When you're working 80-100+ hours a week in a high-pressure environment, sometimes you don't have time for every single candidate, you forget to respond to emails, or you just focus on on the candidates that went to your school.
Keep hustling, get rid of the chip on your shoulder, and I'm sure you'll make it.
The whole chip on shoulder / ranting won't do anything thing isn't really relevant here because this is literally a thread to rant. You literally said you understand the frustration.
Your comment misses the point in that I wasn't talking about doing calls, I was talking about responding to the email. I send multiple follow ups so it's not easy to forget or ignore.
As I pointed out in my comment, it takes ten seconds to open an email and ten more seconds to see someone is well qualified. That's why folks who went to Ivy Leagues bother to respond to me even when they're in busy groups. If someone doesn't know how to be efficient in how they choose to who to respond to, I can't imagine they're very efficient with their other bureaucratic tasks.
I understand the frustration of not getting any results during recruiting, but you come off as very condescending towards people from target schools, especially your recent edit. You can express your struggle, but your negative attitude is going to draw negative responses. The point of a cold email is to get the banker on the phone, so I was giving you perspective. If you're not sending emails to get on the phone...you're doing it wrong.
Your last sentence "If someone doesn't know how to be efficient in how they choose to who to respond to, I can't imagine they're very efficient with their other bureaucratic tasks" just makes you seem like a dick. This could be a reason for your struggles this recruiting cycle. Try not to sound like an asshole and you should see results.
My last comment actually compliments Ivy League people? My point is that folks who went to schools well above my schools caliber AND are inundated with alumni emails AND are in busy groups choose to respond to me *because* 1. they are efficient with their time and know how to quickly scan things and 2. are willing to give talking to me a shot even though I don't go to an elite school
lol I think the not being efficient with email thing is spot on. being straightforward is not being a dick. maybe you feel condescended to bc I disagreed with your point but that was not my intention. people have liked my personality in interviews too so that's not a problem either.
Also, people have to respond to my emails in order to get on the phone. That's why getting them to respond to the email is the topic of discussion here.
I was referring to when you called Ivy League alum salty in the original post. I'm just saying that this whole recruiting process is a numbers game. Seems like you're already receiving many responses, so why are you complaining? I can assure your that HYP students with BB internships have been ignored while networking, it's the nature of the game.
You're making an assumption on their ability to do their work because they didn't respond to your email? You're a college student and you don't add value to their lives. They are doing more important work to be bothered by you, especially since you aren't an alum and come from a non-target. On the other hand, they can add value to your life, so it's better to treat them with respect.
I was just trying to help you out, but you clearly have all the answers. Good luck with recruiting.
I'm complaining because this is literally a thread to complain. Missing out on a process for no reason under your control is frustrating, and, as you said, a valid feeling. Getting into other processes doesn't negate that.
The "treat them with respect" thing doesn't make sense either. Are we supposed to drop our critical thinking skills now and fall to people's feet with regard to how they choose to handle things because they're in a position of power over us? Are we not allowed to be respectful to people's faces but frustrated behind their back? Is that just not human nature? Idk if you go to a target but are alum like your village elders or some shit? Genuine question.
A strong candidate (experiences / technical / behavioral) especially one with direct relevant experience is a value add to the team. Truly street smart people (not saying you're not one, but a general statement) know you can be a great employee even if you're not an alum / target school and go after the best people. Also, doing bureaucratic tasks is a part of the job, not the entirety of it.
The only thing I have to say re the "target alums be mad" is that it's an "if the shoe fits wear it" kind of comment.
Also, if someone went to HYP and had BB internships and are struggling with recruiting then they probably need to take a look at their behaviorals / how well their story flows.
Of course a strong candidate is a value-add to the bank, but don't mistake the bank with the individual banker. More importantly, there are too many strong candidates to fill spots anyways, so missing out on a single person doesn't matter. Which is why you shouldn't place so much value in yourself at this stage in your career. You are easily replaceable.
Not saying HYP candidate is struggling with recruiting, but they also will experience bankers ignoring their emails.
Why don't you focus more on recruiting efforts instead of this...
But a HYP candidate isn't going to miss out on a process bc people didn't reply to their cold emails because they have a resume drop. That's the point of my entire comment to begin with.
To a certain extent, missing people does matter because fit is important and one of the harder things to come by. I'm not saying missing *me* matters.
When you're recruiting for a certain group a good candidate does add value to associates and long term bankers.
I am an ultra non target student (talking not one alumni in IB) with zero family connections and received an offer from a top group. Easy to tell that you are extremely upset about what happened but it honestly sounds like you are taking zero responsibility for not getting an offer (so far). You made it into three first rounds and two super days, you had plenty of opportunities to convert if you were as good as you say you are. Comments like "they liked my personality in the interview" are not relevant. If you were liked so much then why didn't you get offers. Might be time to start looking inwards rather than ranting your a** off about how extremely busy bankers with much more important things to do wont reply to a non-target student who they have never met in their life. Good luck buddy.
Seems like you're justifying your lack of success in the recruiting process as the effect of extrinsic factors like bankers responding/pedigree of your school. While these are all valid points if you haven't gotten an offer by now and you've been aware of recruiting happening all this time, there's definitely something intrinsically wrong with your candidacy. I'm from a non-target myself and I understand the chip on the shoulder mentality but tbh there are tons of kids with regional boutique internships and high GPAs so it's not a super unique background. Did you properly word your cold emails? Did you reach out to hundreds of people/other analysts from non-target schools? Did you secure referrals from these calls for each bank? Did you only apply to BB/EBs? When you got in interviews, did you make sure you showed the right attitude in behaviorals and ace your technicals? There's a higher bar that we have to meet as a non-target with no safety net. Look this is a hard process and it's a numbers game. If I were working FT and got hit with 20 emails at 9AM every week after pulling all-nighters with an MD berating me, I wouldn't even want to spend a second looking at your email. I know this is a rant chain but you seem kinda cocky ngl.
Too cocky for a non-target with boutique IB experience.
Yes, I sent out rougly 900 cold emails and have done 140 ish networking calls. Had solid connections vouching for me (emailing resume to HR, emailing me asking if I had signed somewhere already etc.) to get into processes...or else how else would I have gotten into them? Have gotten to the point in superdays where I've gotten the "you'll hear from us soon line", my only point being that I am not horribly fucking anything up.
As stated in my original comment, the problem was not with my cold email or how I am on a networking call, the problem is the call happened after the process not before. I applied to every single place, some haven't started process yet.
Also, I don't think I'm blaming my lack of success on external factors. I'm blaming me missing out on processes I would have gotten into (people told me they would get me into them) on external factors (email). There's a difference between the two. Mind you I reached out to some groups two to three months in advance so it's not like I was emailing people the week before their process.
Banks I talked to told me they don't get a lot of kids with boutique internships (I did not bring this up as a topic of conversation) but I agree times are changing and getting boutique internships is becoming more and more common place.
At this point it might be fit, so I'll have to keep grinding and improving myself as you mentioned. And like others have commented, diversifying the roles I apply to.
following.
Nvm
bumpppppp also curious
Dude how am I supposed to know that lol this is a thread about 2021 SA
This shit sucks man. Definitely could and should have kicked off networking earlier, but still, feel like not making any progress. Target, 3.9+, an ok sophomore internship, have been on 40-50 calls this summer and still haven't even gotten to a super day. MBB definitely looking like a better option than ever. Keep grinding friends!
Jesus a 3.9+ at a target and having troubles? This worries me I'm a 3.7 non-target lmao but have two okay internships. Fuck man, lol.
Like people mentioned above, the informational asymmetry is real. With these ludicrous timelines, you are shit out of luck if you start searching for an internship 12 months out, with some of these places looking for people to blow smoke up their asses for 18+ months. At one place I had a call after having gotten rejected, and this associate told me I was a great candidate etc. etc. but they had people who had been hitting them up for a year already. Definitely not an equitable process, and hurts doubly so because I know I have an advantage being where I am that I can't capitalize on. Gotta keep grinding until we don't, but eventually things will pan out. Wish you the best, and know that so much of it is a crapshoot and not an indictment of who you are or what you can do.
I enjoy long walks on the beach
cringe
what the fuck is wrong with you
Dude what's wrong with you? Maybe get an offer, you seem salty
You definitely get no pussy lmao who the fuck talks like this? Why would you want to casually network after you’ve accepted an offer? Cringe galore
I did not expect a kid to comment a full-out greentext when I started this thread. This is really something else
I'm at a non-target (I have my expectations aligned in general in regards to FO roles) so I've expanded to areas like corp fin as well as commercial banking/corporate banking internships. Sure they're all competitive, but it doesn't hurt to just expand. This is my case though and just wanted to share best of luck to you OP. Keep your head up champ. I still feel kind of stuck because my 2 internships are relevant but I didn't do any financial modeling rather alot of research and operational work at PE firms, I was really excited to just hit the ground running for 2022 SA but its not lookin pretty.
Yea prospects do not look great for me either as I make my last stand for fall recruitment.. Looks like I will probably be entering the deathly full time recruiting. However, a positive attitude and a no quit mindset will get you far, and when my opportunity comes (whenever that is) I will be there to take it. Good luck everyone
Hey man, I'm really sorry to hear about your situation, but you've got a great attitude about it. Hang in there and keep grinding, and I know something will fall into place.
Thanks man, appreciate it, but no need to be sorry! Thankful I have the opportunity and something is going to break soon. All the best
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