Why do people work at Baird or Jeffries?
I've been going through a lot of the forums here, and found out about the insane culture at places like Baird or Jeffries. My question is, why do people even bother wanting to work here? Like I get that you might get a $180k AN1, but is that really worth spending regularly 110 hours per week? Like you might as well work in Corp Fin, or Wealth Management and spend the extra time building a side business, or something else. And the funny part is most of these hardo industrial groups don't even have the best exits. Is there something I'm missing or is this likely to chnage. Like I can understand working insane hours if you are at a top bracket BB or PE, but like are we doing all this for Baird Industrials in Milwaukee?
I genuinely think sometimes people on the app forget not everyone has 5+ options. If someone gets a sweatshop offer and it’s either that or going to working for Regions or a LMM, you are taking the sweatshop. Additionally, it also depends what specific group you are in, who the MD is, and the dealflow. A sweatshop this year may be a snooze fest the next.
Also the desensitization to $180k at 22-23 years old is insane. I had a F500 internship, I’ll make more than these managers that have 5-10+ years experience. As an associate you’ll be making more than most 40+ year olds.
I get that but, the whole point of making money is to be able to spend it, or be able to grow it. What is the point of making 180k that young if you can't enjoy it, versus getting paid less, but being able to do more. Like I get the appeal of investment banking, but is it really worth it to work that long when, yes you would be making less, at a less competitive place. Also F500 companies I've heard pay a good bit in stock too. Again maybe there is something I am missing, and I do understand that people have different priorities, but I would rather work at a LMM rather than the sweatshop if it means in the long term, I can enjoy my life a bit more. Again, this is coming from someone with 0 internship offers for SA 2027, so take everything I say with a grain of salt.
you're not hungry enough to understand it
I 100% agree with that, but I think it is what I am hungry for. I have a friend who is a big taco bell fan, and he will gobble a whole nachos bellgrande in 5 seconds. But I am a big chipotle guy, and will gobble up a bowl in a few minutes. I understand for some people IB is what they want to do, but if it is for the money, then you might use your hunger to break into quant or work in a startup. If it is prestige or power, then you can go into politics. I like banking because it combines strategy + working with interesting companies. Not because I want to buy a Rolex at 22, and flex on my friend at Citadel, who still wears hackathon shirts.
You can't flex on your friend at Citadel while in banking. What is there to flex? He'd make more even being a hackathon dweeb.
180k bank rolled into retirement means you get to enjoy life with a family and kids. Starting at 180k means you most likely won’t ever make under that again in your life. As a 22-23 yea role you are makes 2-3x the average family income in the USA. Average finance salary out of a state school in Texas is ~65k.
If you are making $180k and are working so much that you're not able to spend it on dumb things like the clubs, then you should be able to invest a large portion of that. If you are able to hit 100k of investments by roughly 25 years old, you can retire a middle-class millionaire by 65 and not invest another dime. Even if someone only lasts 2 years in that role and make a ton of money (especially when most people that age are only making 40-50k) they can be set for life and get a cushy corporate job and coast.
Not everyone at these places are getting those hours. This sounds like an outsized time. On average, E(Hours at Jeff) > E(Hours at GS), but at the same time it won't be that much higher on expectation.
Poor way to look at this. In expectation, working IB makes zero sense, because you'd make the same amount in say, tech, as a PM, or similar in trading, consulting, etc. better hourly. But people prefer the optionality that comes with IB. That's kinda the biggest reason people do it. In college, I knew a lot of IB people. Almost none actually wanted to do IB for IB. Some wanted to do DeFi, some wanted to do AM, some hedge fund, some credit, but basically none were pumped up for actual IB.
Best is subjective. Industrials near across the board have the worst hours and culture out there, so you will almost always see them working the harshest hours. And for exits, industrials are kinda huge in much of the US. Industrials based PE, HF in industrial spaces, big corporations. You've got plenty of options. So if you would prefer to work on stuff around physical products of SCM, industrials is a good place to be.
Fair enough, I guess its just about perspective, and whether or not you are willing to go through it.
It’s non target central, they love preying on prospects that can’t land a BB/EB role but still would sell their soul to get in banking
Most people I know would take a run of the mill MM / LMM shop over that because 70 hour weeks is a lot more sustainable than 100+
The MM sweatshop is truly a last resort option and these firms know that, so they give lots of seats to non targets worth chips on their shoulders
Jefferies most represented schools (per Linkedin): Cornell, UVA, Columbia, NYU
Baird most represented schools (per Linkedin): Wisconsin, Maquette, other UW campuses, Kentucky
so seems accurate for Baird but different factors at Jefferies, maybe just more cultural
Thats Jeff as a whole though, their industrials group definitely takes a bunch of state school kids.
Most industrials teams sit in Chicago, Cleveland, Milwaukee, or Minneapolis and end up with kids from schools nearby. Somebody gets their start there and moves to an industrials team at a different bank in a different city, and then university kids find them and the process starts over.
Somebody starts 15 years ago at BGL industrials in Cleveland from IU or Miami Ohio because it was their only option, and eventually you have Jefferies or Evercore industrials teams taking some corn fed degen frat guy who knows his techs inside out.
I talked to many people at Jefferies during recruitment. Maybe they were trying to sell me on the firm but it didn't seem like the hours were significantly worse in most groups than other banks. It sounded more like some groups (Healthcare, Energy) were as bad as it gets while others varied from average to above average. Seems like the reputation is built on those terrible groups, and people I spoke with in other groups would mention the heinous healtcare / energy hours on calls
hc/energy/o&g/tech are the ones where horror stories are created. Have also seen some bad stuff in fig or m&a but that might be more due to the nature of those groups rather than jeff
I spoke to a Jefferies Rx Analyst, and he said he never worked more than 80hrs a week. Might just be larp though.
Jeffries is the name of your mom’s crack dealer. It’s Jefferies.
But good q - I don’t have a good answer.
Because most people / groups at these firms don't work 110hrs and still get a ton of (real) deal experience + 100% cash bonuses for juniors (at Baird at least, believe Jefferies is the same).
Can't just blanket statement a whole firm - the hours and culture vary significantly between groups.
“why do people work at McDonalds?”
I like how you roasted the OP and also Jefferies bankers at the same time 👌
Because we want jobs maybe?
Not everyone is like you and has multiple offers from Goldman, Ares and Blue Owl. Some people only get one offer and have to pay the bills.
Because I don't care about prestige, make street comp, can WFH two days a week and have Saturdays off.
But yea I'm sure [Insert BB Name} is worth it for the marginal prestige difference whilst being Analyst #3 on a bloated deal team.
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