Williams College IB Placement
Hi guys,
I'm currently a high school senior, and I was accepted to my state school (think one of UConn/Penn State/UMass/UMD), which is ~30k/yr and a few great private schools (BC, Brown, ND, Williams). Out of the private schools, Williams seems like the best choice for me due to fit/athletic reasons, but it would be ~80k/yr. My family can afford the tuition without going to debt, but this would still be a significant financial commitment.
Would Williams be work the extra 200k over the state school? I've heard conflicting advice about recruiting at Williams on this forum with some people saying that you can place almost anywhere and others saying that it's a semi-target. Could any Williams students/alumni speak towards how many people get IB jobs each year and if doing so is very competitive? Would IB at a BB/EB be guaranteed if one puts in the work? Would there be a chance for PE/HF out of undergrad?
Also, anecdotally, a disproportionate of the people in IB I've seen on LinkedIn from Williams went to top prep schools. Would coming from a public school hamper ones' chances?
Any advice is welcome.
Thanks in advance!
I go to Williams and can offer some insight on this.
First, it is very difficult to say whether the extra 200k is "worth it." If that money is gonna make a significant difference in the lives of your family members, it's definitely not worth it. College is insanely expensive and nobody should advise someone to burden themselves or their parents with financial hardship just because a school is better for ib placement.
In terms of banking placement, kids at Williams do very well. I can think of at least 30 of my classmates off the top of my head who have internships at top BBs this summer. Definitely won't run into as many Williams kids as Harvard/Wharton/etc, but Williams is a small school and from what I've seen people who are pursuing banking have a lot of success.
Thanks for the reply. I think I might have overstated the financial aspect of this decision. 200k is obviously a lot of money, but my parents are happy to pay the difference for a school like Williams, and my family's quality of life wont be impacted. I guess I was just trying to confirm that Williams would be tangibly better than my state school, and I think that the numbers you provide definitely prove that.
Since you go to Williams, I would really appreciate it if you could answer some of my more general questions about the school.
I've heard that Williams is very hard academically. Is this dependent on major? Has this been true in your case? Does this create competition?
Is the athlete/non-athlete divide very prominent? How does this impact the social life?
Any experience with athletics at Williams?
Is the majority of the class gunning for IB/consulting?
Thanks again for the reply!
Short answer is yeah, Williams is pretty hard. 100% depends on major though, kids in stem, especially pre-med, work way harder than others in my experience. In most majors the coursework is demanding but manageable.
The whole athlete/nonner divide thing is kinda overblown imo, but I'm an athlete and lots of nonners might say that I'm just not sensitive to it bc I'm in the "privileged" group. Athletics at Williams are great though, high level of competition and commitment while still having time for school and whatever else you might wanna do.
Among the econ type kids, lots are aiming for consulting or finance, but that's not necessarily reflective of the whole school. Lots of kids with lots of different interests here, although I do believe finance is the largest single sector for graduates.
At a different NESCAC but Williams places very well. Like others have said whether it’s “worth it” it’s entirely subjective but just know that if you do choose Williams IB is certainly very doable.
Thanks for the insight! As an aside, how do you like the LAC environment?
The school is very small and tight knit which is a double edged sword. Everyone knows each other to some degree and it’s cool for a bit but it can certainly get old seeing the same people weekend after weekend. Definitely helps for recruiting though.
Also will say alum are much more responsive - if you went to say, Stern, how hard are you realistically gonna pull to get another Stern kid in when you see Sternies everywhere in your bank and on the street. For the NESCAC - alums are genuinely pulling to get their guys in.
dont go it is an inferior NESCAC lol maybe check out some of the other purple liberal arts schools guaranteed way better than those losers ("ehps") lol just from what i have read not from personal experience
Fun fact: Founder of WSO graduated from Williams
Williams is a great school, but if I were you I would go to Brown. Easier grading, better known (a lot of people don’t realize how strong the Nescac schools are), and probably better recruitment.
I can understand the appeal of Brown, but I feel like Williams is the better fit for me. I like the smaller size, focus on undergraduates, rural location, and also have the chance to walk onto a sports team there, which wouldn't be possible at Brown.
Brown is definitely better known to the average person, but would be true for banks? Also, from what I've seen on WSO, Williams and Brown have pretty similar recruiting, but I could definitely be wrong.
My brother attends williams and i would say that overall the rural aspect + walking on probably makes it make more sense to choose over brown. However in a vacuum brown gives a person a better chance at recruiting compared to williams all else equal and seems like a pretty chill place to attend. can't go wrong
Lmk if you got into UConn - I could provide some insight
I didn't go to Williams, but I went to a similar NESCAC and work at a BB now. My second-year analyst went to Williams and he's awesome at his job. I don't know as much about Williams, but I'd say in general that several the top NESCACs (Williams, Amherst, Middlebury, Bowdoin) do quite well with IB placement each year. My alma mater sends 4-5 kids to our bank every year, and the same goes for other BBs. Overall, I don't feel disadvantaged in comparison to my fellow first-years who did finance programs, and have so far received very positive feedback from my team.
One thing you'll really benefit from is a very strong and tight-knit alumni network. I'm not saying that you won't get that at ND or Brown, but especially at a smaller school I feel like much more attention is placed on helping you and making sure you succeed. At least that's the feeling I got when I went through the recruiting and placement process. Now that I'm on the other side of the recruiting process and am actually evaluating prospective candidates, I can see how much time and effort is spent by my colleagues in coaching and prepping the current students.
On a different note, I've visited the Williams campus before and it's beautiful, especially since it's in the Berkshires. You're going to have a fantastic liberal arts education there and will have the opportunity to fully immerse yourself in a variety of disciplines. I'd also recommend you take advantage of the tutorial system as well. Good luck with the process!
Thanks so much for the in-depth reply. You definitely nailed the reasons why I'm leaning towards Williams right now. Since you mentioned the recruiting process, what did that look like, and was it any different coming from an NESCAC school? How early did it start?
No problem! I recruited pre-COVID so the timeline may be a bit different. I started intensifying my networking efforts / interview prep sophomore fall and really started going full force early winter and into the spring. My year, diversity candidates had their super days in early April and the regular track candidates had theirs in early to mid summer. My advice is just to talk to as many people as possible, and make sure to stay in touch with those people and follow up. Communicate your interest in each back very strongly and in an articulate way. At least in my experience, the alumni network at my bank care very deeply about how many people you talk to and how genuine your interest in the bank is.
Yes, Williams has a lot of clout and you will receive one of the best undergraduate educations in the nation.
I'd opine here:
Current senior in college going to MBB after graduation. I got into some of the NESCACs, but chose a big state school for that party/frat culture. All in, I deeply regret not going to a LAC -- I would advise you to take Williams. You will be surrounded by people who are very driven and motivated; I cannot begin to describe the drag of studying for classes/interviews while all of your friends could care less and are out partying. The FOMO is real, and really sucks. I also think about the phrase alma mater -- latin for loving mother. Most graduates of big schools lack this sensation, but my LAC friends have had a noticeably greater appreciation for their school, something I envy.
On value, have you thought about taking out loans? I come from a family of means, but my father demanded I take out loans (about $7500/year) to put some skin in the game for me. Looking back, I am exceptionally thankful for this -- my friends who got a free ticket were markedly less driven than those working for some portion of their education. Also, you can pay off $30,000 in debt in 2/3 years of banking, so it's not a life-altering debt to take. Lastly, you coming to your parents with this proposal would be a really nice gesture to show that you are committed to this academic venture, and are appreciative of their sacrifices.
Last thing, are you a scholarship athlete? If so, do you want to compete at DI or DIII level? ND is going to have much stronger resources to support your athletics than Williams could ever provide, and if you are playing a hallmark sport (football/basketball/hockey/baseball), I would capitalize on the opportunity to compete at the highest level while you still can.
Thanks for the detailed response. I am strongly leaning towards Williams right now for many of the reasons you mention. The idea of loans you mention is interesting, as I'm definitely trying to pay my parents back for the cost in some way in addition to a campus job. I'm not a scholarship athlete or playing a hallmark sport (at least at a varsity level), so I feel like Williams' top-notch DIII program is a great fit for me. Also, seeing as you're going to MBB, any reason in particular for choosing consulting over banking and other finance roles?
Yeah, I can comment on that. For context, I've done a shit load of internships (2x startup [1 unicorn, 1 in stealth-mode rn], 1x M&A [corpdev, not IB, however I worked very closely with Barclays and would consider it the next closest thing to an IB internship; I was up with their analysts until 2AM more often than not], 1x Equity Research [covered 'sexy' names in my sector and worked hand in hand with big-name hedge funds], and 1x in consulting). Through all of these, I solved for consulting because I didn't have the conviction to focus in on one sector so early on in my career.
God bless investment bankers, but I see it as a hyper-focused industry where you really only learn valuation and miss a lot of strategic aspects of what businesses entail. In my conversations with people who have gone to IB and people who are in consulting, the consultants seem 'smarter' about businesses 10 times out of 10. Sure the banker can tell you the valuation implications of closing down a plant for GE, but the consultants I've spoken with have much more nuanced conversations regarding ops implications, the effect up and down stream, HR problems, etc. etc.
Something else that I was cognizant of is the 'hardo-ization' of banking. Through my 4 years recruiting, the people I met were so soulless and devoted to the singular goal of getting an offer. I remember a kid in my freshman dorms who was so proud that he could recite the entire BIWS study guide. Again, if that makes them happy, more power to them. It was absolutely not what I was looking for, however. Every consultant I met was much more interested in who I was, what I do for fun, how my weekend was, etc. I think I have a unique perspective as well since I come from a shitty state school: in NY IB interviews, everyone was super snarky about how the midwestern kid got an interview, meanwhile, consultants were always genuinely curious and wanted to hear my story.
I don't mean for any of the above to come off as snarky, just my personal experiences. I guarantee you that there are countless examples of the inverse: people who hated consultants and love IB. Ultimately, this is a problem that nobody on this site can solve for you -- only the conversations you have in the subsequent 4 years will steer you where you're meant to be!
Feel free to DM if you want to chat more
If Williams is a better fit than Brown, go to Williams. I'm sure there's some marginal difference in recruiting but is that minimal boost worth being miserable/constantly thinking of "What if I had gone to Williams"? Better that you're happy and in an environment that you enjoy than miserable and in a IB recruiting powerhouse. If 200K isn't a problem, then Williams seems like the obvious choice.
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Thanks for the insight! I'll reach out if I have any more questions
What sport? I really recommend you take Brown.
Track. Any specific reasons to choose Brown?
I’ll offer a different perspective from the guy above who went to a state school and regretted it - I knew a kid from high school who played sports at Williams and hated it, for the opposite reason of the guy above. He didn’t like how small the school was, and how everyone knows each other and you see the same people all the time.
If that’s what you’re going for then great, but it’s literally the size of a large highschool so you definitely are going to get that small college experience.
Williams is great (know several guys who ended up at good banks), but Brown will probably give you similar opportunities (at the end of the day most of the work is up to you anyways) but is more well known nationally. It also has small class sizes. Also on your state school choice - I know many many kids who went to big state schools, were able to spend their time in college partying/having fun, and still ended up with good banking jobs.
Sounds like you have some very specific reasons for wanting to go to Williams, and if you would prefer the small school environment then that might be the right place for you. But just keep in mind that it is probably just as likely that you will wish that you decided to go to a bigger school. I went to a small school and there were definitely times when I wished I went to a bigger university so I could meet more people (if you don’t vibe well with people at a small school, you don’t have many options for new friends) and experience all the social aspects of a big school (i.e. school bars, big sports teams, being spread out more in the city, etc.). You don’t really realize now how small a small school feels after 4 years (and Williams is tiny, >2,000).
Ultimately the choice is yours and you will probably think about what if you decided the other way either way that you choose. Makes the best decision based on the info you have now, good luck:)
Williams places relatively well. It will definitely give you an easier pipeline into wallstreet than going to your local state school. Because Williams is a small school the alumni network is very tight knit. I would say williams is a semi target, partially because it is so out of the way not that many companies actively recruit on campus. So I would say HYPSM are the super targets. Columbia UChicago, Dartmouth and Penn are targets. And Williams falls in the category below as a semi target with schools like Amherst, Brown, Northwestern and others. But it is a great school and congrats on your acceptance.
Thanks! Feeling very lucky considering how crazy this admissions cycle was
Hi, sorry to hijack the thread but can anyone speak to how the recruitment's like for internationals at Williams looking to break into ib/ mbb consulting?
Are they severely disadvantaged, if at all?
thanks so much for the insight :)
FWIW- I’m an athlete at Williams currently, and I can tell you that both athletes and non-athletes place very well in IB & PE. Have diverse and non-diverse friends going to all sorts of BB/EB’s as well as KKR/BX.
If you feel like Williams fits you as a person and you were able to get in without being recruited as an athlete, you’ll definitely be able to get good enough grades and build the network required to get a great finance job. Requires some hard work but so does banking/buy-side.
Happy to PM as well, I love Williams and am always happy to talk about its pros and cons.
Thanks for the insight! I committed to Williams just over a month ago and am looking forward to the next few years. Based on what you've seen, for finance, should I just major in economics? I'm interested in double majoring in math or bio, but I'm worried if it will hurt my GPA and thus job opportunities.
I know multiple people who have double majored in economics and biology (or economics and math) that also went into IB
you made the right choice here enjoy
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