Breaking into EVERYTHING but IB
Hey guys, this is a long shot but I'm honestly at a uncomfortable position right now. For a little more details, I'm a rising senior at a "strong" semi-target in UK (think Bayes/Nottingham/St Andrews) doing economics & mathematics. I've been stressing a lot this past recruiting season, and honestly think I may be overthinking it, but I've fortunately unfortunately been able to break into everything but Investment banking!
I've interned in the following:
EY-Parthenon - Restructuring (Return Offer Received) - 24' summer
HSBC - Corp Finance - 23' summer
Mid-Sized Asset Manager - Private Credit (Return Offer Received) - 24' summer
I'm also very fortunate to have recieved offers for the following for 25' summer:
Top 10 performing Hedge Fund (UK) - Fixed Income - 25' Summer Analyst Offer
Big4 - Deal Advisory - 25' Summer Offer
I'm very fortunate to be in the position I am, given the previous offers I've received and current offers I have for 25' summer. However, I'm having little to no luck with IB SA recruiting. As I understand it, early years are extremely important, so I've been stressing extremely to make it in. It's always been my dream to work in IB, and I've done everything I could think of to heighten my chances (taken part in UK wide university case studies, active involvement in societies, registered to sit CFA Level 1 Q4)
I've practically been rejected from every bank for their 25' SA positions, the farthest I've made was GS AC, Rothschild AC, and Jefferies AC. I'd like to think if I was able to make it that far, and get to the AC stage at those three, I'm doing something half right? I mean, my technical are spot on (I'd like to think), I have much more internship experience than the next person my age and/or in my cohort, but I'm still failing to get right where I want to be. I'm considering doing a masters at a target in either Management or Finance at Oxford/LSE/Imperial just for the extra opportunities in IB that will be provided through their much more prestigious networks and placements.
Does anyone have any recommendations? Has anyone else been in a similar position as me? Am I just unsuccessfully successful? Is IB recruiting really this difficult compared to other positions in finance?
A masters would be a waste of money in your position.
CFA L1 isnt going to help you for IB, pretty big waste of time. Although might help for Masters apps if you choose to ignore the above.
Why exactly do you want to work in IB? Do you want a career in it? In which case, you needn't be in that much of a rush (other options here definitely have routes into IB, when labour market improves).
Is it for exit opps? In which case what's wrong with the HF/PC offers in your eyes?
Regarding getting 3 ACs and converting none, have you truly thought about why that might be? You're focusing a lot on "my CV is amazing, I know all my technicals", I'd say that's about 1/3 of what I care about when I interview a candidate - the soft factors matter way more to most people. Most people don't even look at your CV until like 5 minutes before they interview you.
Hey,
To answer your first question, it's honestly always been a dream of mine. I've wanted to establish a career in it, and in all honesty I wasn't always really interested in anything else. I am particularly drawn to FO positions (M&A/CM). I have the aspirations and drive to succeed, and willing to do whatever it takes essentially to hit my goals regardless of what sacrifices it may take. I don't particularly care about exit-ops either. Purely wanting to grind up the IB ladder.
I'm honestly not sure why I've not been able to convert any 3 of those AC's, I'd like to say I have great "soft" skills also. I've always been spoken highly of, and my previous teams have all been more than happy to give me referrals; I also doubt I'd be receiving return offers had I not "fit" into my previous teams.
Mate this is pretty ludicrous. You are dead set on getting into IB straight out of uni so you can … grind up the IB ladder ? 😂 You’ve obviously never worked a day in IB in your life mor spoken to anyone who does if you think that anyone that does it remotely enjoys what they do or even finds it intellectually stimulating . The majority of middle managers and higher ups at IB’s are either 1. Associates who couldn’t lateral into PE early enough and now find themselves essentially stuck in IB, any other job would be a massive pay cut yet they hate what they do. 2 MBA grads that have lateraled in from lower paying industries or those working in slightly less prestigious finance roles that have directly lateraled in 3-5 years into their career.
Anyone with their head on their shoulders will tell you rhat IB is a means to an end, a great stepping stone to some of the highest paying roles on Earth, however that’s not because IB requires you to be massively intelligent or creative, being in IB for whatever amount of years says that you can be a diligent worker monkey that does what your bosses says and has the capacity to work 15-18 hour days regularly. Most are burnt out within a year or two.
I’d honestly encourage you to reevaluate what you want to do with your career. You’re obviously an intelligent and polished candidate if you’ve gotten these offers and those prior internships. IB may sounds glamorous but the reality is incredibly dull.
Not OP, but could you please help me understand why a top masters would be a waste of money for OP?
He's already getting chances at top places. GS, Roth's etc.
What's a masters gonna do? Get him to another AC? Great, now what? Yeah maybe school was a marginal factor in him being rejected but in my experience it's only part of the conversation at that stage if the person is already borderline.
A Masters has been a common route into IB nowadays, was at an EB - mostly were MSc kids lol.
I agree it's a common route, but I'm imploring OP to ask himself why he's getting to ACs with his existing profile and not converting. I highly doubt it's the school.
Congradulations on St Andrews
St Andrews Maths and Econ is better than both Bayes and Notts😂
yeah, but St. Andrews is the only one that offers Econ and Maths
I hate to break it to you but not one of those schools are strong semi - targets except maybe St Andrew’s, even then recruiting is borderline impossible which essentially equals it out with the rest of those schools.
Was just surprised to actually see how hard it is!
Hi, would you mind letting me know when you had your Jefferies SA '25 AC for the London office? Was it the generalist IB AC?
Forgive my ignorance but aren't UK universities 3 years? So that means only 2 summers for internships.
After that though, the read I'm getting from your post and the work experience you've had, along with the majors you have (Math + Econ) is that maybe you're coming across too "brainy" to your interviewers for IBD.
And that absolutely isn't a bad thing. It means you'd thrive in a more intellectual role. You even admitted that you have summer offers between a top 10 UK HF for a FI role and an offer to return to a mid-size asset manager in a private credit role. You're on track to get the type of right out of undergrad buyside role that IBD analysts will suffer for 2 years to try and get.
Hi,
You have the option of doing 3 or 4 years. I chose the 4 year route (foundation year). I was fortunate to get an internship straight out my first year.
I appreciate your insight, and it does feel nice hearing that. It just frustrates me in the sense the one thing I aspired to achieve, I couldn't.
English undergrads are normally 3 years, Scottish normally 4. If you weren’t aware, St Andrews is in Scotland.
I thought the 3 year thing was a whole UK thing. I do know St. Andrews is in Scotland though.
Just take one of those jobs. IB isnt the end all be all, quite frankly it isn't even all that
I know you are not asking about this, but I still have to comment.
What about M&A/CM/IB in general interests you? Please understand M&A vs. ECM vs DCM vs Public Finance are all different. What about RX and LevFin? What about coverage groups?
I think you are getting a lot of flack as you come off as not really understanding what bankers do or what you are getting into. I may very well be wrong.
However, most people on this forum work(ed) in IB and hate(d) it (saw it as a means to an end as stated above) so it's hard to understand someone who wants to work this job their whole life. We may very well be wrong and this career is great for you.
But why do you really want to do IB?
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