I know, I know. But it's time for the sandwich board. Just received a final round rejection from Bloomberg LP last Friday. My mentors told me to put myself in front of as many people as possible. I'm going to take this literally.
Questions:
- Should I name my school on the board? I'm proud of where I went, but I don't want to devalue it for other graduates.
- What would you suggest to have on the front/back?
- Should I yell or quietly pass my resume around with a smile?
I am a Feb. 2010 (walked May 09, received diploma Feb. 2010 after finishing incomplete courses) graduate who's open to internships and full-time. My idea is to go to South Station, Boston in front of One Financial Center (where I used to intern) and start passing out my resume. I'd do this every morning 7am-9am, then go back to work on cover letters and cold-calling, and my part-time jobs.
Thanks guys (This is not a troll).
Assuming this is not a joke and you're not a troll... please don't do this to yourself. Unless you want to end up as the joke of this board, and even worse - the joke on Dealbreakers.com.
Just try and take up some unpaid internships. Call up as many finance firms (not call centres or edward jones... but like boutique advisory/banking/pe/am/consulting firms) as you can and offer to work for free.
Try international firms ... try europe - they do long-term internships for recent grads.
Hey Kanon,
Thanks for the tip, but what I've been doing so far is 120 hours a week of hunting, writing cover letters, going really far into the process--but failing anyway. I'm a non-target in a non-hard science major. I've been living on nothing for a long time because I've been channeling all my energy on finding a job, at the opportunity cost of not making any income. I mean, I borrow my friends' logins to their online career centers--even women's colleges--and start emailing HR non-stop. I've done the cold-calling.. I need some results. I don't care if it's shameful or whatnot, because I think that's what it takes.
My senior year (I did 5.5 years of school), I applied to an admin assistant position at State Street. I received a rejection saying they've received over 1,350 applications.
This s guy did it: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1215333/Unemployed-graduate-Dav…
I know I can make a better sign than him. I need advice on execution.
But I will take your advice and try those firms. I went to the European Career Fair at MIT and applied to Allianz and then Luftansa (but didn't have a masters).
If you're spending a lot of time emailing HR, then this could be your problem. I'm a non-target, non-trad student, and I'm about 0 for 50 with online apps and HR appeals. But I'm more like 60 to 80% successful when meeting VPs and MDs and requesting an informational interview. HR's not going to hire you, but an MD might.
The key for me is to set up a meeting to "learn more about their business and career progression." Seriously, this helps you come off as interested and NOT desperate!! (This is extremely important). I'm very aggressive, but never come off desperate.
Have you gone to any investment conferences? This is an easy way to meet professionals. Just last month I went to a CFA Society function (put on by my state's CFA society). Met 8 strong contacts, and got 4 informational interviews out of 4 requested-- 2 worked together at a Fund of Funds (1 Principal, 1 VP), 1 is the Director of Inv Strategy for a BB Private Bank (like, right-hand man to the CIO), and 1 started a $500M HF with 3 other guys. All were interested in helping me however they could. I got referrals or offers for referrals from all of them. One is coaching me in my current interview process with another firm, and if that doesn't work he's going to make calls on my behalf to desks in NY.
Seriously, I went to this event with no expectations except to meet some people and learn something new. I showed up with my interview suit on, my homemade business cards, and an easy-going, sincere elevator pitch. Oh, and I wasn't the least bit desperate.
You can do this, bro. I promise. Focus on getting meetings (informational interviews) instead of putting so much pressure on yourself to get interviews. And if it doesn't work out now, then get a job at a golf shop or something to give yourself a break while you continue the search. Eventually it will work out-- persistence is the key to success.
Feb 2010 graduate + 14 months ???
I mean, it might work for you to get a job now, in the short-term, but you can kiss good-bye to any long-term career prospects. If I'm an LP looking to invest, a C-level looking for advice, an MD deciding who to promote, am I EVER going to go with the guy who once wore a sandwich board on South Station? This will haunt you for the rest of your life.
drexel alum:
I was taking another year of school to finish a second degree, but ran out of funds. But I had been looking for work since Summer 2008 (internship), didn't get it then, thought it'd be better in 09--and since Dec. 08--been interviewing, cold-calling, etc. non-stop. I doubt you will, but I know once I get my foot in the door, I'd definitely put in the work and FILO. When I'm living at home and doing this everyday without any tangible result, and then that one interview that turns into a final interview... and I'm praying and know there's no room for error--and I get that same generic rejection email. It makes me think, how bad do I want it?
Don't do this. This is stupid.
I agree you are an idiot if you do this.
Would have been funnier as a shorter post. Brevity is the soul of wit my friend.
Seriously, my advice to you is lose the gimmicks and stick to fundamentals. Network, meet people, look on job boards, email contacts, have lunches, follow up, look up alumni, talk to family. Does every single human being who knows you know that you're looking for work? If not, tell them that you're looking and what you're looking for. This is hard work, man. And to be honest, you really haven't been at it that long. Look upon this time as a way to establish a great network of contacts that will be with you throughout your career. And also, most importantly, never never never give up.
Agreed, I shortened the post to save time. I have two spreadsheets, one from my high school, one from my university, and I'm thinking maybe everyone is doing the same thing--because they're not responding. I have about 20 people, junior and senior, who're trying to help me out. (And I really appreciate the advice).
To clarify, I walked in May of 09, and had some courses incomplete because I was contemplating on taking another year. That didn't work out, so I've been at it 13 months non-stop, and then interviewing since April.
I went to info. sessions, career fairs, but everyone else is doing the same thing.
That guy did it, but what kind of job did he get in the end? I think the article said he only got a recruitment firm job. Also, he's in Britain... I don't know if culture wise it's different there, but here, you'll be laughed at and dismissed for the most part. By the finance guys anyway...
I think a senior professional (from Houlihan Lokey?) did it back in 2008... he was parading around park ave in new york and became the butt of all jokes. In the end he found a job, I can't remember what, but he had to do it to feed a family. I'm sure respect he got from others took a hit...
If I were you, I would do what jhoratio mentioned. Network, job boards/postings, cold-call - repeat.
One additional thing I'll add... consider doing a financial modeling course. If you're strapped for cash, do Breaking into Wallstreet which is affordable. If you have some money, consider doing a live class. I knew some people that got jobs from these because they showed they were interested and did their hwk in class, and a guy who attended the course was actually a recruiter and offered them jobs. Analyst Exchange I think gives internships to attendees.
What kind of internships have you had so far? Maybe post up your resume so the board can edit it...
Thanks for the great advice Kanon. I posted on here to get a feel of what the entire community had to say. I guess it's not a good thing to do. I'm studying accounting on my own at night, and I have a copy of "Investment Banking" by Joshua Rosenbaum that I use in case I get an impromptu interview. I had three internships at a major asset manager (think 1 trillion+ AUM) doing product development, turned down a MM IBD offer during those internships because I wanted to finish the project with the team, and did not know how to network. I'll PM you my resume for help.
So you've been working on finding a job 120 hrs/week for how long again ?
in all honesty... if nothing works out I would rock the sandwich board. while some people will laugh, if I were hiring I would give a second look for the sheer balls you have and ask you for a resume. if you had solid experience then I'd give you a shot.
Thanks PJC, if it comes to that, I'll keep you in mind. You've actually been giving great advice recently from the posts I've read, so this is not totally crazy.
Read the "thinking outside the box" quote from the article. This evidently doesn't apply to you. The first time I heard of the sandwich board was about 3 years ago. Think of something novel.
I wonder if this could work:
>Print a good couple dozen of your resume and give them to every finance/ business man you see driving back home in his Mercedes after a $400 meal in a famous NYC steakhouse.
Once again, I have no idea if this would work but they may think that at least you are smart enough, bold enough to do that (even though you are basically selling yourself very short)
I totally agree with the above post, drop the Sandwich, on the long term it will look very bad on you.
May the force be with you.
stunts like this are not unheard of. ex: some lady sends resume with a shoe wanting to "get her foot into the door". she was hired.
The OP should definitely try this. However, to avoid being seen as a copycat, he should send a severed foot with his resume.
If that's what it takes, that's what it takes!
Question you want to ask yourself is: Are you sure investment banking or finance is something you really want to do? At which point of the interview are you having difficulty with? Technicals? Do you understand the financial basics such as accounting, DCF, etc.?
It never hurts trying to attack a different field; finance isn't for everybody.
Hey alpha,
That's a good question. The part I'm having trouble is landing the interview. It takes me 6 weeks on average for one interview. And when I do have interviews, I drop off at the final round, but it's rare that I get there. Right now, I've interviewed with non-finance places, since I know I have to be more flexible. I actually looked into human resources, marketing, and other sectors.
When I had that Bloomberg interview, I put all my effort on it, because I knew if it was lukewarm, it was an auto-reject. Read his autobiography, talked to the right people, had a lot of support going, even asked during the final interview: "is there anything I didn't mention that wouldn't say I'd be a great candidate?" That was last week, so I'm trying to regroup my thoughts into something that's more effective.
I used to have a fear that doing something irrelevant to the financial markets would never let me back again, but now I know, after trudging through, I could always network internally.
My issue is meeting the right people and have someone go to bat. As Panda said, the desperation didn't help.
Open to all suggestions of places to go.
What about LinkedIn for networking?
Regarding the interviews, how are you coming off as a person? In reality, because of the competition is going to be fierce in this market, you really need to display that "wow" factor during those interviews. Something that will leave a favorable impression in the eyes of the interviewers. Show that you possess a certain skill no one else has or you've managed to overcome a certain obstacle that no one else has.
I definitely tried LinkedIn with short, concise (non-burdening) messages. The only people who've responded are those required by the company to respond (like Deloitte Careers). But I'll ask those in my network to help me search as well. In my opinion, I have great stories to tell, and I did make my interviewers laugh. But I know a great conversation is no grounds for a hire: you have to hit the specifics of the job as well. I'm practicing in front of a mirror and reading about acting as well. I mean, I have the experience for the entry level jobs, but I know I have to wow. That's where I'm stuck at.
Professional Staffing Group is right around the corner at Fanuiel Hall. Try the head hunter, have drinks in the area after work and try to meet some people who work in the Financial district, network from there.
I have noticed that it is a slow hiring cycle in the area.
Man I know life can be shitty sometimes but people will take you more seriously if you are assertive about what you want rather than a clown... In the same way the aggression looks desperate, so does a cry for attention through non-conformity. If you let this one issue govern your life you are never going to be happy. I'm looking too and I know how you feel. Obviously something is lacking so there has to be some way that you can prove yourself elsewhere like taking some certification exams, many of which are free or low cost. Possibly you can try manpower.com and get a job temping at a bank or something even though they take a huge cut of your pay.
You might try changing the proximity and location to ANYWHERE in the country rather than only in boston if you are unwilling to widen the scope of the field.
Dude, fuck HR. They are simply another barrier/obstacle in your way. Bypass them and go straight to the VP or MD level. They'll apprecdiate it.
HR are simply there to provide a conveyer belt of candidates that fit a very tightly defined criteria. If they start producing anything else then their ability will be called into question. Their hands are tied so fuck them off.
Call directly and ask for career guidance. Once one guy has given you an audience, in your next request you can say 'I have already met X from Z firm and was wondering if I could buy you a cup of coffee and harness some advice'. Also, whenever you meet a guy ask him if he could suggest anyone else you could talk to.
Appear keen but not desperate. Get this right and it is very infectious. If they can't give you a job then they'll really want to help you find one.
^^ FYI Guys - this is an old post (see March 2010). Wolfyserver, the OP, made out fine and in fact he's helping other down on their luck prospective monkeys with potential internships in a different post.
If this sandwich board stuff worked and I was in NYC, I would open some corner food-sale. Best you are looking for something not sold in that area, and say lunch is for free if someone is looking on your resume thoroughly while you prepare the food. (eventually giving you hints on how to improve your background or they shall give you an interview right where you are ate)..
and if anyone is laughing at you and ridiculing you, just do the Panda strategy. Piere into his eyes, without moving, and with a large smile, and while you do it, slowly let the hot dog slip in front of his feet. )
;) Be remebered !
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