Casual Racism in PE (London)
Without doxxing myself, I’m a person of color working at a well known fund in London. Ever since I moved here from my banking stint, I have noticed multiple instances of “casual racism” in the office. These would mostly be casually racist comments (or stereotypes about immigrants) passed along over dinner or jokes cracked in the bullpen. These span from both the juniors in the team to the relatively senior members of the team. I did feel shocked when i first heard it but eventually normalised to the frequency of these comments. This is always a difficult issue to bring up, thanks to the fear of retaliation (or frankly, inaction). Most people around seem to act completely normal after and I often question if I’m being overly sensitive and I should just suck it up and move on. It does makes me feel very helpless and I keep questioning my belongingness here. To the people of WSO, have you ever faced this issue while working in London? Any advice or thoughts? TIA
Partners group still at it i see
lol so real, I heard this from another partners group person who wanted to jump ship
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This is pretty par for the course for any profession in Europe, to be honest. Migration crisis and whatnot. It's not aimed directly at you, but if you're still uncomfortable, you should consider whether London PE is what's best for your life holistically.
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Of course, if people are racist, s(he) should be the one to leave.
This is re-posted every few days to incite hatred. Mods plz fix.
Is this supposed to scare me? This is exactly why these posts are made. This was in response to the same thread you made yesterday.
Here's another good one.
Notice i'm not hiding my username
Not uncommon in the US either.
So so so false. Ppl in the us dgaf about you or your background and are all business
I don't know why people are getting defensive about this. I'm not saying its a good or bad thing - just that people of all colors like making edgy jokes in the office.
Yeah the US is the most racist country on the planet, except for all the others.
I don't know why people are getting defensive about this. I'm not saying its a good or bad thing - just that people of all colors like making edgy jokes in the office.
I've also lived all over the world and work in NYC. I don't think America is the most racist by far. Americans might be more upfront in your face, but Europeans and Asians truly believe that certain races are lesser. People think Americans are racist until they go to Italy and get called a slur as casually as "dude."
Well, given how difficult it is to get Americans to acknowledge the existence of places outside North America—it's only fair😂
to be honest as a brown raised here myself, the nature of humour in the UK is like this, they (probably) aren’t serious but in the age we grew up in (if you’re 20-30), the ‘racist’ jokes are just normal banter between mates. Again I might be wrong but that’s my experience and view.
Aren't most large PE firms full of continental Europeans rather than Brits though (similar to BB IB)? Don't think our banter is necessarily that pervasive.
yep for the large ones this is true but not the case at my company which is probably why I haven't experienced what OP may be going through.
I'm really surprised at some of the replies here - I am a POC, currently work at a MF in London, have worked in multiple geographies and at many different firms that cause WSO kids to spontaneously ejaculate and the ONLY place I experienced that kind of shit (and very early on in my career) was at a mickey mouse shop with intensely mediocre people that I luckily escaped ASAP. I had a "casually racist" manager who used to chat shit ("it's just banter mate!") and it was all I could do to not knock the fucker out.
Work is supposed to be professional with no place for that kind of "banter" (I also say that as a product of the most rarefied English private school upbringing you can imagine) - I am honestly really surprised, especially given the career risk involved in making racist jokes at work. All it takes is one person to flag that to HR and you are finished - makes me think anyone behaving that way is retarded and/or not serious about their careers. Banks, funds etc. take this EXTREMELY seriously in my experience.
OP, this shit is not acceptable in 2025, and most places don't have a culture like that - some do, however, and it might be worth looking around.
Pipe down.. Tell them to check BLACKED, their gfs and wives could very well be on it. Case closed.
Lay off the hub sir
You can sense the hatred you have for White people in your writing. You aren't really a good person, you just use this racism shit as your weapon to get what you want.
While I don't really believe in being obsessed with anti-racism & sensitivity – dude, what hatred did you see there? You may call him retardedly woke at best—but what are you so defensively upset about? No one hates you (at least not more than you certainly do to someone of a different color). Your comment bringing up the word "hate" is every bit as retarded as the woke obsession that annoys you
POC? Get out of here ya lib snowflake, that terminology is going the way of the dodo
DEI is dying, get used to it. No more special treatment for you waaaah. Earn your way through life instead of expecting handouts
Just for this I'm gonna be extra anti-discrimination against white / Asian candidates. Sorry bruh your critical-race-theory bs days are over
Same I’m not white/European either and working in London for a large PE fund. Our G10 and directors are very humble people (can be insufferable to work with sometimes but that’s just business). They’re quite friendly and respectful. They show curiosity about where I’m from in a good way. I have friends at MFs too who have similar experiences to mine. OP’s firm definitely must be the exception.
You have a public news network named after your dong, what more do you want?
First thought on reading a racism thread being black dong is an impressive level of degen i must say. Kudos.
This is literally the thought process of most people who hate black people on this forum lol. Notice how OP didn't even say his race but most of the commenters are assuming he's black too.
blame the content those Gen Z consume nowadays, plenty of articles talking about how the current far right/racism/Trump young supporters consume too much extremist views/racism from social media which may be to blame this behavior
we are were we are to make money as a team i.e., part of an institution, so any sort of behavior that aims to weaken the team by pulling a joke that only some preselected guys will enjoy it without considering the others is destructive culture-wise
don't think racism had its place 10 years ago, some sexist jokes yes, but this is smth new
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Come on guys, making racist jokes is a necessity for delivering value!
My fund personally benchmarks hurdle rates against IRR (Internal Racism Rate - Rolling 3-year average, adjusted for bias inflation).
can I come to your office and drop jokes about your mom in front of other colleagues? hope you take them like a champ and laugh as much as I will
just don't get a lawyer please, don't be a snowflake
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DEI must die, I'm going to do my part to root it out and destroy it
Amen
Even Veterans, who served this great country. Shame on you.
European London PE types have this extreme arrogance about them as if they’re the highest paid, envied, masters of the universe.
In reality, >90% of London funds aren’t going to make carry, work like dogs and have literally no edge over the other millions of funds out there, all for a TC of $500K when London based lawyers with similar YOE are clearing $2.5M.
This isn’t 2016 anymore bro, the industry is like 20% as lucrative as it was back then. if you quit you’re not losing much.
Is there even a tangible benefit of leaving your banking seat for PE long term in 2025 onwards? The American story has a faint odour but the European case seems to reek.
Let me get this straight. Dying industry, less cash comp (with a chance so low and out of your control of realising a tangible amount of carry, that based on Expected values, you would be better off trying to make it in publics where you at least have an inkling of control instead? Multiply by shitty euro-waterfall structure and the case looks even worse), Marginally better WLB, better visibility, oh and i guess an ego boost?
Even the WLB point can be debated. Saw a recent thread of a vp/principal iirc, stating he works about 80-90 for 3 months, and around 50-60 for the rest of the year. So taking the upper end, that's about 70 hours per week on average, which is similar to what the IB ED/VP equivalent would expect to be working on average on the upper end, no? Bear in mind, that based on the TC he quoted, it sounded like he was at a UMM fund, so can probably at the very least expect 10% more hours for an MF, so about 77 hours pw average a year as a 28-35 yo? Living the dream.
Feeling so disillusioned about PE, and it seems like everyone in my class is (still) blindly following the masses. I wonder when the narrative will change? IMO I see 0 tangible benefit in shooting for a long-term PE-only career in Europe unless you have extreme conviction about the industry / Private markets and/or are very content with the strong possibility of eventually playing in the middle-lower middle market space to actually see the comp differential heaven that you was promised by WSO when you were so keen to leave banking.
A lot of good points. I sometimes regret my decision to go into finance instead of commercial law. This isn't 2005 any more, the risk/reward has completely changed. Now you can see K&E associates make Partner after 7 years and pull multiples of what IB/PE wageslaves make at equivalent YoE.
You’re making good points on economics (although you need to understand that PE compared to banking and law is a tail outcome game, so looking at the average is not very useful).
I personally don’t regret leaving banking for PE for a single second. I also had a corporate lawyer gf and saw what that looks like. You can’t pay me enough to be an advisor and do that work (not to say I think it’s a bad job, it’s just not a fit for my personality and interests)
You make a fair point that the industry is certainly less profitable than it was some years ago. At the same time, I think you are slightly misrepresenting some aspects.
"Less cash comp": I'm not so sure, to be honest. At least in my case (coming from a BB), bonuses have been far more predictable (and higher %) in PE. The seat also feels less subject to random yearly cuts.
"Better off in publics": it's a different lifestyle, skillset and frankly and higher risk/higher reward career on the public side. Is that suits your personality then great, but it's not for everyone. I also frowned a bit at the "more control" point where I would actually argue the opposite: in publics you are completely at the whim of irrational market moves. You can be right in theory but still not make money. You also only have access to public information, which limits your ability to make an informed decision. On the private side, your control of the company and associated decision making feels like you're more of a master of your own destiny.
WLB I don't think is inherently better in terms of hours, but in my opinion you definitely have more control and can plan better, i.e. you're not at the whim of a client.
The big upside in my view is that the job is orders of magnitude more interesting than banking.
Racism is not going to decline in the West. The issue is we are moving into a period of scarcity (i.e. late stage capitalism) vs abundance. In the latter, you have room for social issues to take center-stage since people are doing well & feeling good and want to share the wealth around.
In the former, all bets are off. Dog-eats-dog is not conducive to less racism. Rise of populism globally -- esp in the West -- means DEI / affirmative action / 'social justice' becomes subordinate to the thing that matter most which is the economy.
All to say, find a different shop but don't be surprised if you have similar such experiences. Especially in the UK which is in massive decline
Came from a well off diplomat family from South Asia (Nepal), and got to live in a bunch of european capitals growing up, now well setlled in the States.
Honestly, you can't even compare american to european racism at all. America, with maybe perhaps Australia still, no longer Canada now that they've gone through an Indian immigration surge, are perhaps, the last major western polity of peoples who don't harbor any sort of mass resentment to a specific group. A racist in america is usually a low life, a broken being, someone with nothing.
European racists are professionals at a level uncomparable. My ethinc origins are usually considered safe/ok, and get a ton of "wow I wan't to go to holiday there, is it easy to get to everest from Katmandu?" but have a pretty middle eastern like appearance, and the looks I get before I clarify what I am, aren't good. I'm not PC whatsover, grow up at the tail end of my countries civil war, I can handle it, but europeans have a deep antipathy to a vast majority of islamic nations, which wouldn't bother me if it wasnt' by default, an aversion to anyone who is slightly brown. One of my closest buddies has parents who immigrated from Colombia. Cool guy, but when its just us going out in town, especially in germany, I've lost count at the amount of bars/clubs that just wouldn't allow entry. It's quite annoying.
Didn't really have anything to say, but I see your great posts all the time, and just decided to respond here. Oh racism is coming back as we enter economic uncertainty, and as geopolitical orders shift, it's coming back with a vengeance, and this time it's probably going to be quite professional/sublime/deep, it won't be surface level or binary.
Wow, I didn't realized it was that bad in Germany but makes a load of sense. I think if you are Asian / Hispanic / generally non-white and you are living in a country that is majority white, the US is far and away still the best place to be. I haven't heard good stories about assimilation in Europe and Asia
I can't comment on your overall experience with racism in Europe/Germany, as I am white, but I want to provide some context around the issue of bars/clubs not allowing entry.
I spent my teenage years in Germany, with plenty of partying, and lost track of how often people from Islamic nations tried to start fights or random confrontations. I even considered it normal, and was therefore very surprised when I went to uni in the US and saw how "peaceful" the parties were, and how almost no one seemed to have the urge to get into fights.
So I think the bigger issue is that this certain demographic misbehaved so consistently and over such a long period of time that it resulted in a lot of them being denied entry to clubs, and unfortunately, for others who just look similar by association.
Obviously, it's not to justify racism, but I think this isn't a great example of racism in Europe. I think it's just rational behavior from bouncers or people running the clubs.
Personally I would rather deal with casual racism vs formal, or god forbid black tie.
Didn't know UBS had a UK PE fund
OP could give some examples.
stereotypes are just generalizations, i.e. they are true on average. so why get offended if it's true?
jokes are jokes. don't take them seriously.
Film them saying the jokes, save the emails, save the teams messages, bank them and use it for a rainy day or when they're choosing to a hire a new VP. Become the Machiavellian opportunist that wins at all costs.
Don't you have bigger problems at work?
Bro you work in finance. Man tf up and laugh and have a good time.
I hate to break this to you but bigotry is everywhere.
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