Hired Just For Diversity?
I just got an offer last week for a summer internship and I feel like I just got it because I’m a diverse candidate (I’m a black woman). I go to an Ivy, 3.8 gpa with a solid resume so it makes sense to me that I would get a first round and I think I did really well on behavioural (I am the typical “fun popular girl” so I know how to get people to like me and it’s definitely has been my biggest strength when networking/interviewing).
However I did not network for this bank and I really fucked up on the technicals since I only really knew the 400 and this was for a EB. Only explanation in my mind is that they really wanted a black woman and I was just the best one. Do I just have imposter syndrome or am I right in thinking that this was just for diversity? Or was hired based on personality in spite of technicals, on the phone they did emphasise that everyone on the team “enjoyed” speaking to me and that I would fit in with the team and didn’t really mention anything about me being smart/qualified/intelligent/competent .
I have another offer at a BB that I’m considering taking instead because I know I genuinely killed the interview and networked and it wouldn’t just be a diversity hire
I know it sounds dumb to just take the BB because of imposter syndrome since I would genuinely prefer the EB. However, I don’t want to work with people who only see me as a diversity candidate or who secretly resent me because of it. Do interviewers really treat you differently if they didn’t want you to be hired or am I just overthinking.
Some firms are blatant with the diversity hires that are just meant to be paraded around, but if it’s not part of a sophomore diversity program or what have you it’s not a big deal since you’ll be doing the same work as everyone else. Bombing the technicals doesn’t impact your work product on the desk if you actually know what you’re doing. Just go where you like the people more, minute differences in branding don’t really matter
Yeah it wasn’t part of a diversity program. Just the regular SA hiring cycle.
OP, feel free to message me. My friend was a diverse hire, didn’t go so well for her and we worked out a plan where she was able to lateral to a different firm from A3 down to A2 to get more technical and deal exposure.
Just work hard and prove yourself when you’re in. Everything else follows.
Assuming this is EVR/MOE/PJT - Not saying this is your case, but if you are not technically prepared for your internship next summer, you would get clapped and are at risk to not get a return offer to your EB, even as a diverse candidate. The BB bar for interns is much lower (much larger analyst class and longer training ramp before forming an integral part of deal team). Are you doing a soph internship that will prepare you technically? If not, I would either take the BB offer or do a lot of work in PPT/Excel prior to junior summer to get up to speed as the EBs are genuinely hard work and the learning curve is steeper tbh - interned soph summer at BB
Thanks for the advice! Yeah I agree would definitely need to do a lot of work beforehand (school does not have a finance major so only have exposure to finance via clubs) since I genuinely don’t really feel on par with EB standards but at a BB I think I would probably be average
Have an EB SA this summer. What level of technicals is required in your experience? I feel decently prepared but curious what level I should aim for vs relaxing to make sure I'm fresh to work hard for the summer.
Girl - just take time from now till your internship to learn:
- shortcuts - both excel and PowerPoint
- improve you modelling skills - macabacus and wso are awesome for this
- check Damodoran for basic corporate finance concepts and some awesome case studies - https://pages.stern.nyu.edu/~adamodar/New_Home_Page/corpfin.html
Find some part time experience - small / virtual / regional IBD or even search fund
And please take EB unless you really disliked people there - at the end - your start matters
Ultimately, you will always feel unprepared for the job and life in general
During my time at IB, many people made me feel inadequate because I am female and dyslexic, yet I never allowed those people to set cap on my potential. I graduated top of one of the best masters in finance in Europe, before that earned first in the UK in law, and also got full accounting charter so on many occasions I was really more qualified than my associates but again I put my head down and worked up
FWIW, I am a Black male at a Ivy, and I chose BB over EB...
I had an interview for an EB that was similar to yours (I didn't do too hot on technicals). Withdrew my application a day after and went with the BB. I had great interviews with the BB, and it was through a non-diversity SD as well. I knew I "deserved" it...
Wherever we go, our peers will always doubt whether we "deserved" it. And there's nothing you can do to control that. Only YOU know if you deserved it or not. Always better to feel like you deserve to be there.
Also, there are more hardos at the EBs. These hardos are primarily the ones that purely see black people as diversity candidates and resent us for our color. Knew I couldn't be in that environment.
Hope this helps!
FYI, just because it's a non-diversity SD doesn't mean that your background didn't play a role (it could have, who knows with recruiters / diversity quotas that banks try to hit). Congrats, nonetheless.
I mean sure, but that's completely out of my control. I went through the same process that every non-diverse candidate goes through. Not sure what more I could have done outside of showing up to my interviews in a spandex suit haha.
Thanks for you perspective. I definitely feel like I would be on a back foot at the EB and throughout the recruiting process it has been the black people who have helped the most and I am concerned that I won’t have that connection/mentorship at EB.
Yeah, you're not going to have that at any EB. People probably look down on the ERGs, and there's just not enough people due to the structure of them
off topic, but what type of technicals did you get in the EB interview - specifically what sorts of questions did you get that were not from the guides?``
BIWS has a financial modelling course that has more in debt questions than the 400 guide. Those more detailed questions were the ones asked and I would have done even worse if I hadn’t at least memorised some of the concepts and questions from the BIWS course. Some of the questions felt like they were ripped straight from there and was definitely kicking myself for not learning everything from it. Would highly recommend if you have the time and money to do the course
del
Are you helping or advertising?
You can’t tell a single question to the poor kid?
WSO crowd has gone selfish over the years.
100% diversity hire and the worst part for you is the entire team knows it as well…
Can you say a little bit more about why you think so and how you think the team knowing about it would effect my analyst experience? Genuine questions and open to criticism
News flash: Even if you nailed the technicals, went through the regular round etc, people would STILL assume you were “just a diversity hire” and if they wanted to find a reason to have animosity around you, they would just find a reason to do so. Prejudice people or flat out closet racists will be that way whether you’re the perfect candidate on paper or not, so I suggest you spend more time controlling what you can control and divesting your personal esteem from your colleagues’ opinion of you - you will always feel like a sore thumb so get used to it and just be the best analyst you can be technically without letting anyone run you out of there!
Now it’s very noble of you to consider taking yourself out of a process you don’t feel like you “deserved”, but just know that a mediocre white male peer who just happened to get an offer because he’s the child of a big client isn’t going to do that (trust me I’ve interviewed at least one of this type of candidate each year as a current ASO 2, ignore title). He’s going to take his offer at face value, try to carry his weight along with the rest of the class and keep it pushing toward his 5-year goals. Life is not fair and no sin is worse than the other. Don’t let salty folks on WSO / phantom imposter syndrome you feel like you should give up an opportunity that was given to you. Contrary to popular belief, high finance has NEVER been a perfect meritocracy! I also highly doubt you’ll flunk out of an EB group as another poster suggested - EB’s are not doing rocket science and the training I’ve seen here is actually heads over heels compared to the BB’s. Do your homework prep before your 10 weeks and don’t let that little devil on your shoulder self sabotage an honest shot at working and succeeding in the role. Good luck.
Well said.
Agreed
Congratulations on both your offers!
Here's what I would do:
I would look at how the bank looks like at more senior levels. Diversity hiring should not be just at face value, if there are not people who look like you with similar backgrounds at the top levels, then there probably isn't much room for progression. You might be passed up for promotion even if you are the most competent candidate.
Choose the bank that is *truly* diverse insofar as they actually promote it throughout their structure, not just at the analyst level just so they can post a picture on their recruiting portal.
If I were in your shoes, I would probably on balance pick the BB.
Thanks! Just spent some time scrolling through LinkedIn and it’s the opposite of what I would expect. At the junior levels there are practically no black analysts/associates but significantly more black MDs. Don’t really know how to interpret that, would have expected it to be the opposite
Well, I would then just suggest to do your thorough due diligence and make a valued judgement of where to go. It is slightly surprising yes, at my BB there is diversity at all levels throughout the bank, although my bank is slightly known for that sort of thing.
That actually could be: (a) a good sign and means that most diversity managed to exit well after a few years, (b) terrible and means that you can last short period of time. Generally, if there are seniors - there is a good bunch to find a mentor.
You’re at an Ivy, high GPA, and personable. Sounds like you fit the bill, regardless of race. You got the offer because you deserve it and will likely perform better than most in your SA class. Don’t take opportunity for granted and do what’s best for yourself. Also who cares about what others think of you, as a black professional the majority is always going to have bias against you anyways. We’re all just here to make a dollar.
You are at an ivy league, have a good GPA, and got a superday at a top EB, you are definitely not stupid. Is it easier to be hired as a diverse candidate compared to a white american man? Absolutely, but why would you even think about choosing an offer that you don’t like as much just because of what people think?
Everyone thinks the black/hispanic/other diversity guy/girl is a diversity hire at first even if they killed the interviews, you gotta prove yourself on the job. IB is literally just doing PPT & Excel and eventually be smart enough to pick up the process fast and ask semi-smart questions. You deserve this, you didnt do anything illegal so why wouldnt u deserve it?
Remember u look out for yourself and no one else. This offer should give u the motivation to absolutely lock in starting right now and start prepping. U have time, practice PPT/Excel, read about the markets, so case studies. Get the motivation to prove to everyone that u are equally capable as any other person.
Also, I would recommend you read “The 48 Laws of Power” by Robert Greene. In this situations u should be more maquiavelic, choose whats best for you and dont look back. In most things in life its not the smartest person the one that gets to the top, its the one that worked the harder. Absolutely lock in and prep, prep, prep. U got this, u can be as good as anyone else, just need to put in the work.
how many non-diverse people do you know, that got these superdays simply by having a good gpa at an Ivy, without networking or similar?
Based to recommend Robert Greene
Based to recommend Robert Greene
The fact that you said you killed your BB interview and got the offer tells me you deserve the role for the EB.
EB probably gave her the offer because she leveraged the BB one.
Lmao an eb is not going to take a shitty candidate just because they have a bb offer, has to be like MS M&A or top GS classics group. Plus nothing in op’s post suggest they even did that
Hey OP similar to you had rounds at Moelis and Evercore, but I felt more supported at a BB. A larger analyst class meant better training (especially coming from a liberal arts background) and felt more collegial. I feel like I would struggle to catch up at an EB, and I don't want to risk not getting a return offer from a FGLI background lol.
It's incredible how you kids whine and moan about getting special treatment in the name of representation because trying to go through the normal recruiting pipeline is "unfair" and yet even when you GET THE OFFER you find something to complain about.
Yes, it does sound dumb if that's how you're making decisions. Newsflash - if you went through the diversity pipeline at the BB like you did the EB, then any of your colleagues there who didn't could potentially think of you in the same way. You need to accept that you are the pinnacle example of a candidate that could be a diversity hire - black, woman, target school, high GPA (not that that's difficult at any Ivy except Princeton thanks to grade inflation). This isn't to say that you are only being hired for diversity, but to point out that no matter where you go there are people who are going to think of you that way. If you don't want to be associated with being a diversity hire then quit applying under it. And even then, some people will STILL think that way because of the political climate, so this is something you have to get over. Focus on being a high performer and it won't matter either way.
This question doesn't even make sense. You got the offer, how would you have a sense of whether or not they're treating you differently because they didn't want you to be hired? The entire point of diversity hiring is that they do want you - you're good for press/reporting purposes. If what you meant to ask is whether the interviewers will treat you differently as a diversity hire (not to your face obviously, but when making the yes/no offer decision) then yes - I have personally seen and heard from friends at other large firms that they will deliberately hold such candidates to lower standards because they're told to get them in the door. Maybe that happened here despite you screwing up on technicals, or perhaps you're overthinking it and were able to leverage the BB offer. Juniors matter very little in the grand scheme of banking, their value add is negligible and most are expected to be churned out after 2-3 years, but the HR optics being pushed down from leadership are seen of as paramount goals and are undoubtedly effecting the make up of 1st year classes these days.
OP commenting under a random account since I can't comment as anonymous: Just to clarify I did not apply through a diversity program for either the EB or BB. Went through the same recruiting process as every other non-diverse applicant, so I don't think calling me a hypocrite for complaining is fair in this situation. Both banks do have a diversity pipeline but I did not apply to those schemes so I was definitley not part of the official diversity recruitment. This is where my questions comes in because I don't know if they would still just hire me for diversity since they already have a specific diversity recruitment pool to pick from
Nobody who got in via nepotism or other "alternate" recruiting channels thinks like this, FYI. Take whatever offer you want good luck in your career. No reason to dwell on this - just keep moving onward and upward.
Who cares?
it doesn’t matter how you get there just that you get in
play the cards you have to the best of your ability and don’t worry about why they like you
sometimes you are liked because you are brilliant, sometimes because of who you know, sometimes because of your background - doesnt matter
just get in there and run with the opportunity
If you are a black woman with personality and intelligence, many will try to discredit and demean your accomplishments. Try to go for what you want, and not based on how you want others to perceive you.
"I would genuinely prefer the EB." Go with the EB.
You are the same person at either bank, so the interview performance is superfluous and in the past. It's difficult to know their intentions, but I think it's fair to say in a white male dominated industry it does not hurt to be in a place that is at least trying to contemplate inclusivity. That goes a long way in a relationships business.
You should not have imposter syndrome. You have an excellent GPA at an excellent school. The interviewer probably said "Per the resume, she's clearly smart. She's also personable (as you mentioned), isn't that everything we want?"
Go with the group where you had the best and most thorough understanding of the team you met with. I know a lot of people seem to emphasize prestige but it really doesn't matter after 6 months on the job and you have offers at 2 very good firms so you'll have great deal experience and opportunities for buyside roles, so just go with the team you got along with the most
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