Is NYC worth it?

A bit off topic here but….. Was looking at the cost of living in NYC and it’s just horrendous, states like Texas/Florida have a much better low tax regime which would benefit immigrants. If y’all could just shed some light about the pros and cons of living in NYC for a finance job it would be really helpful!!

 

One thing to bear in mind is the hidden cost of living in Texas or Florida - having a car. You have to pay for the car itself, gas, insurance, parking (possibly at your office and apartment), maintenance, repairs, etc which can easily add up to over $1000 a month.

 

Is it worth it, in your 20s, Single, then
Ab-so-fucking-lutely!

 
Most Helpful

The benefit of NYC is you're in the finance hub of the world... the opportunities are far greater than starting in TX or FL. You may make more in year 1/2 post-tax in those states, but long-term your average IB/PE guy will make more in NY than an IB/PE guy in TX/FL. In both of those states you're shoehorned into smaller industries (O&G) or at a LMM/MM fund, while the NYC guy has a lot of optionality at huge banks and funds - as well as a network of other people in finance.

There is for sure an argument to be made for moving to a LCOL area after your first ~5 years of work, but I would not focus too much on the COL when you're 24. The opportunity and network you build in NY is much greater than starting out in a small market.

 

Given your question, you have never lived there. Keep in mind, not having previous experience in the city makes living there attractive from a resume standpoint. In almost all other respects, it is not worth it given how much it has changed since COVID hit (socially and financially).

Conclusion, you’re going to move there if you have the opportunity so here are my rules to the city:
1) live there for 1-3 years then gtfo.
2) don’t pretend to be a “New Yorker”, it’s repulsive to both new yorkers and non new yorkers.
3) Don’t pretend like you actually work hard, you work in an air conditioned building so it’s not that bad relative to people who actually make the city run.
4) Keep your head about you with women, don’t seriously date transplants.
5) if it’s less than $20, don’t worry about it.
6) the secret to the city: be a winner, don’t be an ass. Have found that native manhattanites are generally much nicer (or just less rude) to people than the tourists and the transplants. Usually you don’t expect a native born, you might think they’re soft relative to your experience. They learned that being nice retains your character and keeps you close to your values. Do the same and you will retain your inner compass and character. Forget that you will be lost faster than it takes you to read this post.

Just honest advice here. Good luck, have fun.

 


Thank you for taking your time out and giving helpful advice. Applying to MSF programs in the US and would ideally like to get into Vandy. Which would be a pathway to getting into IB and asked the question from that POV, was very helpful.

 

I’ve been to 23 countries and hundreds of cities around the world and NYC is by far the best city in the world. I lived there for 4 years and then had to move, but shall return one day.

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee
 

I moved from London to NYC and regret it.

Better comp and dealflow in NYC, but much higher cost of living, so it largely nets out.

Lifestyle improvement marginal given London has amazing retaurants etc too. It also has its distinct villages / cool places to live, in the way that both Sohos are similar, Greenwich Village comparable to Notting Hill, Upper East to Knightsbridge. 

I like the general positivity of New Yorkers vs the default miserable state of London people, who constantly complain about energy crisis, Brexit, state of politcs, anything they can moan about really. However, you soon learn that the positivity in NYC is mostly surface - plenty of highly strung, stressed out people in NYC forcing themselves to smile. 

Manhattan is mostly concrete with one major park, versus multiple major parks and plenty of greenery dotted around London. This is a big one - it's mood enhancing to see trees every day. NYC is a poorly planned city, unlike, say, Singapore. 

Homelessness and mental illness much more visible in the streets of NYC than London, though most go about their day seemingly indifferent to it.

London tube far from perfect but NYC subway sucks. 

I could go on...

 

Depends on your personality, personally speaking, I don't like any big cities or cities in general since the people tend to never smile, are always in a hurry, tend to be rude, don't even say hello to their neighbours, etc. But if you like going out and dating then it can be very good OP. 

I am just waiting to earn enough money so that I can go buy some land in the middle of nowhere (at least 3 hours away from any other human being) with a wood cabin and live isolated from society till I die, but hey to each his own. 

 

Florida and TX are jokes compared to NYC for finance jobs. Also these states tend to have hidden costs Florida has insane flood insurance for instance that doesn't get talked about. Also stuff like medical care and schools are far worse there.

You mentioned immigrants unless you are Hispanic NYC will have better communities for immigrants. My cousins live in Houston and there are tons of Indians there but the quality of goods in NYC metro area far outpace the Indian stuff in Houston.

 

I can't stand the hype over the sunbelt.  I have not seen every city in that region but the ones I have been to were pretty miserable.  The sunbelt cities I have been to usually have a few cool things to do in the center and then after that it's just the same endless suburbs copy pasted with McDonalds, Walmart, giant parking lots, and insane heat coming from the asphalt.  Packed full of people but you can't go for a walk because everything is made for cars.

If I wanted to live in a lower cost of living area I would get a remote job move to a small rural town in upstate NY or New England.  Hopefully remote jobs still exist in 5-10 years.

 

You have to realise that your situation in NY may be different from what you've been advised here. You can't draw conclusions from advice, you have to go there and build up your experience of living in this city. You may or may not get lucky. I know a guy who moved to NY with a lot of savings and big ambitions, but after two months he left there for his hometown with no money at all. Make your own conclusions, be smart, watch others and don't make their mistakes.

 

I would 100% recommend to start off your career in NYC. Whether it makes sense to stay long-term is a different story and depends on multiple factors. 

I can relate to the immigrant mentality - I moved to NYC after college with basically no money (other than some pocket change from summer minimum wage jobs that I had to fork over as security deposit for my first apt). I had a FT banking job lined up, but the high COL was definitely really stressful and daunting at first. What I learned was the $$$ you give up to pay taxes, rent, etc. ends up being pennies in the long run if you play your cards right. 

Couple thoughts on the upsides/downsides:

1) People/Network (professional, personal, romantic) is unparalleled and can't really be replicated. NYC tends to attract ambitious people in every field. (not just finance/consulting/law) - the best in food/hospitality, bartenders, fashion, art, etc. This is very valuable in making you a more worldly person (coming from someone who grew up in a suburb with very little "culture"), but also makes your standards for what you expect out of people/life quite high (this is both an upside and downside). Quality of the dating pool is generally (IMO) way higher as well, as long as you find someone with similar values (this is what I did - from what I've seen in other cities, would have been more difficult (but not impossible) to find someone of similar caliber unless I went back to business school at HBS/GSB lol). 

2) Work your tail off and get some exposure early - the best way to learn any business is by doing. If you believe it takes 10,000 hours to master something, then that means if you work 9-5, 40 hours a week, it'll take you five years to get to a basic competency. If you work 60, 70, 80 hours a week, you'll get there in 2-3 years. Embrace the suck because in your early 20's you honestly shouldn't have many obligations anyway, so get what you can out of your time in NYC (this comes into play in my next point). 

3) Figure out if you want to stay long term - for many people on certain career tracks (law partner, banking, it makes sense to stay even after you get married or start a family. If you have a partner who can stay at home, or family close by that can help, that pays huge dividends (or if you want to be a power couple and pay a nanny/private school etc.) That said, it's not for everyone (myself included). That said, NYC will always be there. The fact that I can visit whenever I want and still feel like I know the city like the back of my hand is really great.

4) If you end up not wanting to stay, you can move to another market, and you should still be leaps and bounds ahead of your peers. Since I left NYC (now split my time between West Coast and Sunbelt), I noticed that thanks to my experience, there has been minimal drop off in my ability to 1) initially command higher responsibility/title/comp than some of my peers (most started in smaller markets), 2) present more fluently/professionally due to the additional time on task mentioned in #2 above (this is key for promotions), 3) leverage a wider network (I can just pick up the phone and call an old buddy). Obviously this is less of a differentiator in other big cities (LA, SF, Chicago, etc.) but if you trade down to smaller firms or boutiques this still comes into play.

All that said, in this season of my life (in my 30s now) I absolutely love being in TX/CA for lifestyle/tax/family reasons, but I wouldn't trade my experience in NYC for anything. I know lots of people are still on the WFH trend, "why would you pay all that rent/taxes to do something you can technically do from anywhere" but I think that is pretty short-sighted for all the reasons mentioned above.

 
CRE-monkey

I would 100% recommend to start off your career in NYC. Whether it makes sense to stay long-term is a different story and depends on multiple factors. 

I can relate to the immigrant mentality - I moved to NYC after college with basically no money (other than some pocket change from summer minimum wage jobs that I had to fork over as security deposit for my first apt). I had a FT banking job lined up, but the high COL was definitely really stressful and daunting at first. What I learned was the $$$ you give up to pay taxes, rent, etc. ends up being pennies in the long run if you play your cards right. 

Couple thoughts on the upsides/downsides:

1) People/Network (professional, personal, romantic) is unparalleled and can't really be replicated. NYC tends to attract ambitious people in every field. (not just finance/consulting/law) - the best in food/hospitality, bartenders, fashion, art, etc. This is very valuable in making you a more worldly person (coming from someone who grew up in a suburb with very little "culture"), but also makes your standards for what you expect out of people/life quite high (this is both an upside and downside). Quality of the dating pool is generally (IMO) way higher as well, as long as you find someone with similar values (this is what I did - from what I've seen in other cities, would have been more difficult (but not impossible) to find someone of similar caliber unless I went back to business school at HBS/GSB lol). 

2) Work your tail off and get some exposure early - the best way to learn any business is by doing. If you believe it takes 10,000 hours to master something, then that means if you work 9-5, 40 hours a week, it'll take you five years to get to a basic competency. If you work 60, 70, 80 hours a week, you'll get there in 2-3 years. Embrace the suck because in your early 20's you honestly shouldn't have many obligations anyway, so get what you can out of your time in NYC (this comes into play in my next point). 

3) Figure out if you want to stay long term - for many people on certain career tracks (law partner, banking, it makes sense to stay even after you get married or start a family. If you have a partner who can stay at home, or family close by that can help, that pays huge dividends (or if you want to be a power couple and pay a nanny/private school etc.) That said, it's not for everyone (myself included). That said, NYC will always be there. The fact that I can visit whenever I want and still feel like I know the city like the back of my hand is really great.

4) If you end up not wanting to stay, you can move to another market, and you should still be leaps and bounds ahead of your peers. Since I left NYC (now split my time between West Coast and Sunbelt), I noticed that thanks to my experience, there has been minimal drop off in my ability to 1) initially command higher responsibility/title/comp than some of my peers (most started in smaller markets), 2) present more fluently/professionally due to the additional time on task mentioned in #2 above (this is key for promotions), 3) leverage a wider network (I can just pick up the phone and call an old buddy). Obviously this is less of a differentiator in other big cities (LA, SF, Chicago, etc.) but if you trade down to smaller firms or boutiques this still comes into play.

All that said, in this season of my life (in my 30s now) I absolutely love being in TX/CA for lifestyle/tax/family reasons, but I wouldn't trade my experience in NYC for anything. I know lots of people are still on the WFH trend, "why would you pay all that rent/taxes to do something you can technically do from anywhere" but I think that is pretty short-sighted for all the reasons mentioned above.

That's so useful, man! appreciate every word in this message. Thank you!

 

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"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee
 

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