Please Leave
Major cities in the US are incredibly unaffordable and people think they’re entitled to an affordable place to live. I’m talking about cities in Southern California, New York City, the Bay Area, Florida, and others along the upper east coast.
The US is so god damn fucking big, and full of affordable areas, and yet you scoundrels can’t give yourself a break from the area you grew up. You make developers allocate a certain amount of their beautiful Class A multi-family to be affordable, limiting its valuation in many cases, so that Jenny can be a pilates instructor in that city? Fuck that. Move to Oklahoma City, or Albuquerque and get out of the way of the rest of us that have a sense of direction for our lives.
These penniless fucks want all these handouts and complain that the system is so oppressive and limits their wealth creation. GET THE FUCK OUT. You can’t fucking afford this lifestyle you think you deserve!
This comes along with the absolutely psychotic socialist liberal ideologies, that destroy the cities our predecessors created. Look at LA in the 50s & 60s compared to now. On top of this, these morons continue to elect people who are almost catatonic. Look at Karen Bass or Gavin Newsom. The cities are burning to the ground and we can’t even build a simple fucking train.
We do need these people to stop complaining, but we also need more expansion of these secondary cities that I am begging these people, who are progressively making these areas more unaffordable, to move to.
Thank you for reading about my frustrations.
Alright - this is something I can speak to here, but I think I can do it a bit differently (and perhaps more from experience). I grew up in West Virginia and Kentucky, but spent most of my childhood in the latter. The problem with these states is that while they are cheap, they offer a lot less economic opportunity than "tier 1" and "tier 2" cities. Yes, you can find a house here for $250k, but finding a job in one of these states that pays $100k+ can be quite challenging; yes, you have some outliers like P&G in Ohio and LLY in Indiana, but the issue is that EVERYONE wants to work for these companies, and once they're there, they tend to stay for life unless they get laidoff along the way, so openings are pretty slim, and they aren't all in finance (P&G, for example, has many more roles in data analytics and marketing functions than finance).
So what did I do when I got burned out in finance and LA/NYC life? I left the U.S.. Now, don't get me wrong, this is very extreme, but I lived very frugally, and that was enough to buy a modest home in cash in Kentucky, that I rent out on AirBNB while I'm traveling abroad (I work fully online now, and for myself). I honestly think the U.S. as a whole has become a bit crazy. I will describe what happened to me in a year, and this is not meant to trauma dump, but simply to explain some of my logic when it came to leaving:
Since living in SEA and Latin America, it has given me a lot of perspective:
I am very grateful to have been born in the U.S., and love Kentucky in particular with all my heart, but when I initially moved for a sabbatical between my last job pre-MBA before going to my MBA, I quickly realized that I did not want to continue living in the U.S. full-time. I recommend anyone who can make ~$80k (I will candidly say I make much more than this, but believe that $80k gives you a near luxury lifestyle in most countries outside the U.S., Canada, and some parts of Europe) or more online consider seeing what's out there. The U.S. is a great place, but I fear that if the cost of living crisis and culture wars continue, the country might become a shell of its former self.
Happy to field any questions if anyone has them.
Sorry to hear about your friend, that’s an absolute tragedy.
You’re right about there being fewer opportunities in these areas. We need more companies to be base in these regions but they likely won’t until universities here become more astute.
My quarrel is with the blue collar workers and the labors whose services are low in demand, due to there being so many here. There are likely greater opportunities in these secondary markets where they can gain a similar wage while having a lower cost of living.
I wouldn't say blue-collar roles are in low demand, honestly. My first college roommate studied history, and eventually began his career as a public school teacher - needless to say, he hated it. U.S. public education is leagues behind most other developed (and developing) nations, and he got sick of just reading essays written by ChatGPT (sometimes the kids even left the prompts in at the end). He went back to trade school and became a welder - now making $100k+ in Ohio and Arizona, and part of a union with a pension and great benefits. We as a country pushed the whole "college is for everyone" narrative, beginning a few decades ago, and it saddles lots of people with life-altering debt as tuition and textbook costs have surged. He was from an affluent family, so they paid his college tuition, but his family probably sunk nearly $200k into his "college experience" just for him to make less than $50k as a teacher (teachers in this country are grossly underpaid IMO, part of the reason are education system is so lacking, specifically in STEM), and trade school only cost him a few thousand dollars, and he had a 6-figure job 2 weeks after graduating. We need to stop treating blue-collar workers as "less than" and encourage fiscal responsibility and personal happiness more broadly speaking.
Sorry to hear about your friend. But I absolutely concur to everything you said and want to add some more points as an outsider who moved to the US and fail to understand how this country thinks that it is still a world leader. I am fully convinced that US is on steep decline and the citizens here don't see it because they haven't traveled enough to realize that all other countries have moved so far ahead of the US.
1. The first time I entered the US, I honestly felt I had entered a 3rd world country. The JFK airport was in tatters, and so dirty. It felt like I was in one of the Max Payne games so gloomy and untidy.
2. Kid you not, everyplace I have lived there have been shootings, I constantly live in fear of getting shot by some random who loses his shit. It is unimaginable in my home country that someone could just walk around with a gun just like, forget shooting at will. I grew up in SE Asia, acountryy which is a fraction of GDP to US and has poverty as well. Even that feels safer than US.
3. The medical system - don't even get me started. The whole medical system in the US is an absolute SCAM being run by insurance companies and PE shops. It is literally easier & cheaper for me to fly back to my country, get treatment from the best medical professionals, than to get insurance covered treatment in the US. The doctors ad nurse staff here don't even seem to know what they are doing half the time, I don't trust their level of competence at all.
4. Retail Banking - the US retail banking (not investment/HNI banking) is at least 10-15 years behind my country, so imagine how far behind it is from China/India etc. 2+ days to settle a basic account to account transfer - give me a break (it is instant transfer in my country) + the customer support is absolutely incompetent.
5. Public infra - lol again this absolute insanity. Can't believe that the "richest" country in the world doesn't have a reliable train/bus system. Can only either drive xxx hours or take planes that keep crashing every other day.
6. Entitled people - in general realized that people in the US are neither hardworking nor very competent but feel fully entitled to all comforts in life. And yes this includes high finance and all other jobs as well. Sure you work long hours, but guess what so do other countries and that too at lower cost with even better quality services.
I can go on and on but I think you get the gist. I believe that the only true powers US has are (1) It's currency $ monopoly (2) Huge army (3) Immigration & soft pull to attract best minds of the world - though this is very questionable now and I discourage anyone who asks me to move to the US.
So I absolutely understand and concur to what u are saying.
Reposting your full post isn’t helpful
It's absurd how much crime Americans tolerate. Vagrant bums attacking people on public transit isn't normal. "Youths" swarming and jumping random people in Chicago isn't normal, nor is it normal to give them slap on the wrist punishment like that poor kid in Vegas who got beaten to death trying to defend his classmate. I honestly don't care about what trauma they had in their upbringing or this or that about socioeconomic causes. It doesn't excuse their behavior.
I get the frustration. Seriously. I know multiple people who were looking at moving to the UAE if Kamala won. I'm staying because this is still my home and I want to make it better. I view the US as the main character country and if it goes to shit, then the rest of the world follows, or conversely in the positive also. We've lost our way, not just with crime but it used to be an American value to value freedom of speech. Not a left or right value but an American value. The censorship that we had even pre-COVID insanity was unacceptable. The kangaroo court trials we had for people like Douglass Mackey are unacceptable. The gender insanity is unacceptable. If you're gay ok cool. Good for you. I honestly don't care. Sex change surgeries on single-digit age kids who can't informed consent is barbaric. And we were the ones exporting this insanity to the rest of the world.
Fully understand not everyone's level of risk tolerance can accept that, and for some they may be better off getting out. I get that. I'm only speaking for myself where I've always been a fighter, I was in the armed forces, and I want to do what I can even if my part is small to try to fix things here.
Have to agree with all of this. I'm really surprised to see all the commends defending the USA; not sure if this is willful ignorance or blind nationalism. The quality of life in America is significantly worse than comparable 1st and 2nd world countries in Asia and Europe. A lot of the comments I see defending the USA concern the amount of money you can make here, but that's the only advantage; no reason to stay here once you've made enough. Even then, even if you make a top 1% income, you can't buy culture.
And we haven't even talked about all the racism yet if you're not white lol.
Americans do not tollerate crime. A very retarded subset of Americans tollerate and even make excuses for crime, these people generally do not have to deal with crime at all in their day to day lives and therefore have zero idea what their idiotic policies perpetuate.
del del del del del del del del
Think it depends a lot where. There are places in the US that are great and places that are a total mess. In Europe, Poland is probably a great place to be both single and for a family BUT raises the question on what are the actual job opportunities? Meanwhile, London is totally unsafe for women. No way if I had kids and they were girls that I'd want to raise them there. It's like in the US, you have well run cities like Dallas and Miami, and then you have Baltimore, DC, and San Francisco.
I don’t mean to pry on your trauma but having recently accepted an intern offer for NYC, I am very scared after reading this comment. Do you have any tips on how to avoid getting shot at a bar? Was the perpetrator a junkie? Was this a cheap bar? Was it in a “bad” area? Or was this gang related? Did he shoot anyone else? Would really like to be aware of the dangers in NYC and avoid those situations without having to abandon my dreams of making it in that city…
You are either statistically a unicorn, or you're lying/exaggerating for effect. Something like 15-20 people in total are pushed on the subway tracks. Not killed, mind you, nor pushed by a homeless person. Total. You could probably count on one hand the number of people killed by a homeless person pushing them on the tracks in even a really really bad year. Fewer than 400 people a year are murdered in NYC, and the number of shootings is usually under 1000. There are as many per capita road rage shootings in Houston every year as there are shootings overall in NYC.
This is why anecdotal evidence, even if it's given honestly, is so useless.
This is fucking laughable. The idea that Rio or Mexico City are safer than Chicago (let alone NYC) is absurd. Now I'm sure you were lying above. No "culture war" in Southeast Asia? Again, sounds like someone who has a real bias to justify, seeing as gay marriage (for example) is only legal in a single SEA country (Thailand), and as you say, you'll experience significant amounts of racism if you aren't native or white.
Also, the average person in Thailand can not do any of the things mentioned. Eat out and live in a building with amenities? The average person in Thailand is making well less than $1,000 a month ($500 a month is considered a solid living) and living in a run down shack and sleeping on a cot trying to make ends meet in Bangkok so they can send money to their family in the country. The average person in the US has a significantly higher standard of living than the average person in Thailand and it's not even close. Who is happier and enjoying their life more is a fairer question.
People love to go to the nicest parts of Bangkok and hang out and the spots only the upper middle class can afford and assume that's the whole country. Or go to Roma Norte or Polanco and walk away talking about how safe Latin America is.
He’s lying. Stone cold liar and he’s fooling people.
One freak event like your friend being randomly shot in a bar in NYC with no motive maybe I can buy (but it would likely make national news, and I see no reports of it). But ALSO having a friend shoved onto subway tracks and killed? It’s that fear mongering anecdote everyone gives, ignoring there are over one BILLION subway rides in NYC per year and only a handful of incidents of riders being shoved onto the tracks. I’m sorry, but the story he’s telling is less probable than like having one friend getting struck by lightning and another mauled by a bear and another eaten by a shark.
i greatly appreciate nuanced responses like this. would give you banana - but im out. ^^ this guy gets it. i won’t be leaving nyc like you & accepted the rat race but solid points
My parents took an expat offer within the last 2 years after 25+ years in the US after immigrating here in the 90s and doing very well in corporate. They were pleasantly shocked to see how much better quality of life was in SEA. Considering a home there now. Society functions in a more pleasant way, feeling of trust and happiness with those around you is much higher. Infrastructure, transit, quality of food, ability to run in to people and develop bonds are all much better. The subtle paranoia and constant stress in the US impacts people more than you might think. I’ve started my career in the US and appreciate the opportunity and education this country has granted me fully but I plan to take my life in another direction in the coming years for my own quality of life and that of my family.
Like others have said, sorry about your friend. I can also attest to Colombia. Went to Medellin and absolutely loved it and the people. There is still a "grind" culture there but it's a tech city and Colombians want to grow and build their countries. Idk how Bogota and Cali are since I haven't been and can't speak on their behalf. I still think the US is one of the best countries on earth, but lately it's been feeling incredibly hard to get ahead ever since Covid happened. It was already difficult to get an apartment in NYC, it's getting even harder. The US used to be the place where everything was infinitely cheaper and it was easier to make more money, but now, it seems like sure you can make more money, but one bad day and you lose it all through no fault of your own. One of the dumbest things I think we have is enforced auto transport everywhere. It's not healthy nor economically smart to enforce a liability upon everyone. Healthcare is also pretty fucked, but if we have a profit driven health care system and the doctors are all bad, how much worse will it be under a socialized one like the NHS?
A random bar shooter, an NYC homeless man, a drug dealer.. did these people have anything in common? I assume they were all men.. anything else?
why don’t you just say what you want to say? f’ing losers like you make me happy indiscriminate violence exist in america
Tier 2/3 cities are paradise
Agree. Why survive in NYC / LA. When you could be thriving in a Tier 2 / 3 city. Suburbs of DC, Charlotte, Atlanta, Miami, Houston, and Dallas are all great places to live. Think spending a few years in NYC is great for the experience, but definitely not worth it long term
I’m working in one of those cities you mentioned and love it. Comp is on par with NYC, but quality of life is drastically better and the cost of living is much lower. Never understood the hype around NYC.
Because only pilates instructors exist outside of the elite class. No sanitation, food service, law enforcement, blue collar people anywhere. The city just magically runs itself and those people are summoned and appear out of thin air solely to increase the valuation of your shitty real estate portfolio.
Right, cuz god knows we need another aspiring DJ, singer, or actor receving government asistance becuase they can’t make rent in DTLA.
You do realize this isn't how it works, right?
Maybe educate yourself just a tiny fucking bit before going off. But I guess if you weren't an ignorant moron you would have already done that
They can just commute and wages will adjust to accommodate the inconvenience though. Why create market distortions when a market mechanism (wages) already exists to address this…
I mean, you are right that there is a ton of entitlement. However, it isn't unreasonable for people to want to live in liberal municipalities that are full of economic opportunity. For all that is said of them, living in Republican-run places tends to suck. So yeah, people are entitled as hell about their "right" to live in NYC or SoCal, but... people are entitled in general. This is hardly the most egregious example.
Yeah, and Mandatory Inclusionary usually includes density bonuses or tax breaks. Now who is entitled? You seem to want the world to guarantee you a profitable building without imposing any costs or requirements.
And no, "Jenny the Pilates Instructor" generally isn't getting the affordable apartment. Manuel the manual laborer and his family are.
In what way should we look at it? You haven't told us why LA was so great in the 50s and 60s. You mean when the city was covered in smog? In the absence of a specific gripe, I'll assume you you disliked all the "psychotic liberals" who insisted that the city had to clean up its air quality. Damn liberals!
If your argument is that the bureaucratic red tape necessary to build in this country (not just California) is stifling growth and innovation, I'm inclined to agree.
I'm not sure what that has to do with "cities burning to the ground." Perhaps if conservatives in this country had an ounce of intelligence and understood that climate change is real, California and the country as a whole could figure out ways to mitigate it's impacts.
The problem is that all the other cities in the country (and indeed the world) have problems. Most of the issues in "Tier 1" cities stem from the fact that lots of people want to live there in the first place. Yeah, it's way more affordable to live in rural Texas... but you're also way more likely to die in a totally preventable manner because the governor doesn't want to spend money on a flood warning system. And, you know... no jobs, nothing to do, all that.
Interesting takes on the US here
I wonder if the Secretary of Defence has any interesting views on how the country should function
If it wasn't for family responsibility, I would move to a quiet beach town.
Why shouldn't the US just go full El Salvador? Jail the criminals, make them fear the rule of law. Punish people who litter and graffiti, punish people who make our airports look like shit, those who make our public transit a dangerous, smelly, loud hellhole.
We just accept that there are neighborhoods you can't go to and that women shouldn't walk around at night. Why? What does anyone have to gain from this?
Kids in Japan ride the metro alone to school. You can walk around at night with no fear of getting mugged. Why can't we have that here?
We know what needs to be done, and thankfully public support for it is growing.
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Ben Franklin
No, wrong. Any quote from the founding fathers about freedom and rights and such was contemplated with the base assumption of a moral, Christian, generally homogeneous populace. Freedom of speech did not assume women would be aborting their kids or any modicum of the degeneracy we see today. The 4th amendment did not assume obvious and known criminals would be given a slap on the hand and put back on the streets.
We need to shed these idiotic libertarian talking points- that morality can't be legislated so therefore we must tolerate extreme degeneracy, or that taking practical and obvious steps to jail gangbangers is somehow a slippery slope to eventually jailing your grandma. We can just solve crime, as El Salvador has shown.
We need to bring back stop and frisk and need to jail people who clearly cannot function in society.
Lifetime New Yorker here, grew up in Manhattan below 96th Street.
NYC was safe-ish in the 90s, and had its golden era in the late 2000s. We don't have enough affordable housing because we have 1.5 million units in rent stabilization out of a population of 9 million. This has a huge effect on the supply demand by having 15/20% of apartments locked up at 50% below market.
We have a District Attorney who refuses to incarcerate and prosecute people who commit crimes. We have ridiculous taxes, which don't pay for the right things. Crime, utilities, transportation, infrastructure, education. Bring back 421a developments, slowly dismantle rent stabilization over 25 years. We need more enforcement, fewer onerous laws. Remove bike lanes.
You can thank the little hat people
I completely agree. Now there is some subset of folks where this doesn't make sense, but for that majority of folks who live in NYC -- they can easily work elsewhere and find economic opportunity.
The part that makes no sense is that those on the other side of the arguemnt say, 'you're making me chooe between NYC and Birmingham, Alabama -- there's no jobs in the Birmingham'....no I'm not saying that. I'm saying, move from NYC to Chicago or Houston or Atlanta. You're really telling me there's no jobs in these places that are relatlively well paying and have transferrable skillsets to what you do now?
I myself moved from a T1 market to a T2 market for my job (to get my analyst promo) in 2024. The recruiter mentioned how hard it was to convince people to move from NYC / LA to this market, which helped me out since I faced less intense competition. But you know what the hilarious thing is? I am making the equivalent of high-six figures if I was living in NYC (converted via Payscale / Nerdwallet COL calculator), yet I'm also getting access to a solid (if not top-tier) city.
Thing is, most people that are in NYC choose to be there. They are not forced to be there for a job, they genuinely want to have their cake and eat it too. I have 0 sympathy. Hopefully Mamdani runs the city into the ground and shows for the 100th time why socialism fails
ok npc. enjoy your tier 2 lifestyle
what city are you referring to
Nice post gpt
Distinctio mollitia esse asperiores temporibus. Et excepturi corporis odio sint.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...
Magnam qui sapiente neque enim occaecati. Explicabo reiciendis sit id quidem impedit et et. Est voluptatibus molestias quaerat in modi.
Eveniet et asperiores reiciendis qui. Minima labore officiis temporibus suscipit et doloremque illum. Eum et sint iste quia minima sit et. Velit quas et dolores dignissimos cum velit tempora. Nulla et aut quia. Fugit maxime sint sit consequatur delectus possimus minima.