Abu Dhabi (Comp, Lifestyle, Harassment?)

Hi all,

Have heard great things about the comp and allowances (tax free too!). Am wondering if this is still the case in 2023?

Would be looking for senior assoc / junior VP roles.

Please do share:

  • Which firms to avoid, which firms to join
  • Comp expectations and what to negotiate for
  • Hours to expect

I know people have complained about the lack of booze but I've been done with alcohol for a while and prefer a boring lifestyle where I get to go home earlier while earning a ton.

For women specifically, is there... sexual harassment?

I ask because I've faced harassment at every single firm I've ever been at (although twice it was after I left the firm). I don't bother with make-up or dress inappropriately either. And my bar for harassment is high; I mean attempts at touching and / or attempts to put me in situations that could potentially turn unpleasant fast.

I'm currently in a country which upholds common sense and rule of law, but I imagine it won't turn out well for me if I were in the Middle East and I tried to fend off a boss's advances.

That being said, I've asked women in non-PE / IBD roles and they've said Dubai's the problem, Abu Dhabi's okay, so just wanted to check.

I'm planning to just be there for 5 years, make a bunch and then go home and retire.

 

UAE is quite literally the safest country in the world for women.., also there's thousands of attractive women, mostly models, escorts etc etc partying with rich guys, There is like a 0% chance of you getting harrassed, if you complained and it was found true(There's cameras like everywhere) the person would quite literally be hanged or life imprisoned

 

That's awesome, thank you.

I just want what most people here would consider a very boring life

 

It's a conservative Muslim country. You might encounter sexual discrimination, but not harrassment.

 

Thanks. How bad is the discrimination (and heard there's an ethnicity ceiling too anyway)? I'm not planning to stay beyond 5 years, so not trying to make partner.

 

Abu Dhabi is very safe, but if I may ask, why Abu Dhabi and not Dubai? Dubai is the more vibrant / open city and all the big investment banks are actually in Dubai, not Abu Dhabi (the only reputable firms in our industry that are based in Abu Dhabi are Mubadala, ADQ and ADIA). Here are some quick insights based on personal experience:

1) The UAE is the safest and cleanest country in the world

2) It's far from conservative. Yes, you're not allowed to walk around in public holding a beer can but that's not necessarily a bad thing. Otherwise, the parties are literally everywhere.

3) No discrimination. It's an expat nation with a lot of diversity

4) Tax free obviously with New York salaries if you're looking to work in bankingHope this helps

 

Thanks, this is fantastic insight

I'd heard a few comments that Dubai was a bit more dangerous (incl. from someone of ME origin) and alot more expensive, but happy to explore it if that isn't true.

They didn't specify why so I'm not sure why either

 

It’s expensive but honestly looks like nothing beats how expensive New York is getting. You can get a 1 bedroom apartment on the 25th floor in Dubai for around $1,700 a month. Again you’re getting paid a New York salary but with 0 tax (if you’re working for an investment bank), so you’ll be more than fine.

And Dubai is very safe, I haven’t heard of a single crime since I’ve been here. Not sure what your friend is referring to

 

There is huge discrimination. Public sector firms ask for passport before sending offer as salary level is dependent on nationality. I've seen 50% deviation on base salary based off of nationality.

Same issue in promotions. Anything to do with government (including SWF) will only allow Arabs or Westerners in senior management.

Private sector isn't as bad but US/UK style anti-discrimination laws are totally ignored.

 

There is huge discrimination. Public sector firms ask for passport before sending offer as salary level is dependent on nationality. I've seen 50% deviation on base salary based off of nationality.

Same issue in promotions. Anything to do with government (including SWF) will only allow Arabs or Westerners in senior management.

Private sector isn't as bad but US/UK style anti-discrimination laws are totally ignored.

Not just public sector either, literally any role within the UAE will consider your nationality when making you an offer. Any nationality outside of North Ameria or Western Europe is given a massive comp discount. I have also seen some companies ban Indian or Pakistani nationals altogether.

 

thank you, please see below for the irl:

- comp: do you have a good range for PE (ADIA or better, if there's a better, cuz Abraaj is gone), banking and hedge funds? Is there good housing allowance?

- opportunities: which companies in each subsector of finance would you recommend? which subsector would you recommend overall?

- development: understand that there's a glass ceiling on promotions, but are there ways to upskill by say, leading the charge into a new sector / asset class, or are those spots reserved for ME nationals

WLB: ok with the Friday-Sunday swap, but how bad are hours at the Senior Assoc / AVP / VP level? what's the take on foreign nationals going back to their home countries for 1-2 mths a year?

- Spend: how much is a decent 2 BR, how expensive is dining out at a mid-tier place compared to NYC / LDN / HK / SG, what kind of entertainment is there and how much do you spend?

most importantly, how did you break in - any recruiters to recommend or good ol' Llinkedin?

 

Would you say it would be a good idea to start a banking career there and pivot to buyside after? I know comp is slightly lower than US for banking or I might be wrong. Asking because I do have family there and would not be opposed to moving there after undergrad.

 

I'm originally from a Western European country and have lived in Dubai for the last 5+ years (currently on the buyside). My wife and I really love it here.

1) I feel safer in the UAE than I do in my home country - it's also much cleaner.

2) My wife has not experienced any harassment (and nor have I). I'd say that sexism is a bigger problem, as mentioned above, but not more so than any finance function in Europe/US (where this might turn into harassment).

3) Comp is in line with US levels, so it's significantly higher than Europe (and again, no income taxes).

Happy to answer any other questions.

 

People on this forum have said that going to the Middle East on the buy-side, while you make a lot of money cos of no tax, is a bit of a career killer and in the long-run hence make less vs staying in Western Europe/London. What's your take? 

The only ME buy-side firm with reasonable ish exits I've seen back to e.g. London (through LinkedIn search) is ADIA, can't seem to a good sample size of find former associates at PIF, QIA etc. with good exits back to London/NYC

 

Great question - I should mention that I am not in Dubai to maximize my financial gains. It's a nice bonus, but it's largely a lifestyle decision for my wife and I. Even with that focus, we will easily be able to retire by age 40-45, potentially even mid-late 30s. As such, we have no plans to move back anytime soon.

Having said that, you're right in saying that there are not too many people shifting from the Middle East to Europe/US. To be fair, I don't know many people that are actively looking to go (back) to Europe/US, so it could be that there are few people moving that direction because it's difficult or simply because people do not want to.

To answer the other person's question above: the answer that you got is correct. Europe will not tax your income, US will because it taxes its citizens worldwide. So the UAE is more lucrative for Europeans because of (i) a bump in salary compared to Europe, and (ii) no income taxes at all (local or home country).

 

Thank you.

Regarding sexism - is it reflected in comp, progression, or both? For progression, when does it start to hit? I don't intend to make partner / MD and want to bugger off back home after 5 years or so.

Do you get housing allowance, good health insurance paid for by your employer?

Are they sympathetic to letting expats work from their home country for 1-2 months a year?

Are there any current talent shortages in any areas? 

Any recruiters that you'd recommend?

 

Thank you.

Regarding sexism - is it reflected in comp, progression, or both? For progression, when does it start to hit? I don't intend to make partner / MD and want to bugger off back home after 5 years or so.

Do you get housing allowance, good health insurance paid for by your employer?

Are they sympathetic to letting expats work from their home country for 1-2 months a year?

Are there any current talent shortages in any areas? 

Any recruiters that you'd recommend?

I'll try my best to answer all the questions haha

1) Sexism is not very blatant, and there is a lot of respect for (and empowerment of) women here. I'm not trying to scare you, but rather want to paint a fair picture because it's easy to only point to the positives. What I'm referring to is quite subtle, as I feel that some people give more weight to the opinion of men than they do of women. This is not at a particular level, but just in general. It's very subtle, and I've noticed it in Western Europe too but to a lesser extent. This won't be the case for everybody, especially if the company is more diverse, but there are some people like that. Ultimately, this could impact career progression. Pay will be the same, as it's often fixed for certain levels. Don't get me wrong - it is not very blatant at all, and a lot of women love it here (including my wife), but it's just something that I want to have said to provide a fair picture. If you want to stay here for 5 years, I would not worry about this a lot.

2) Healthcare insurance is linked to your employment here & finance firms will provide you with good coverage. Pay packages are broken down in base salary, housing allowance, and transport allowance. Most employers just give you a lump sum for everything and leave you to figure it out, which is nice since you can determine where you want to spend your money. Some companies provide a housing allowance that can only be spent on housing - it just depends on which place you work for.

3) Working abroad for 1-2 months per year might be a stretch to be honest. The more senior you become, the more likely it will be, but I would not expect it. Some companies provide their employees with complementary annual flight tickets back home. It is expected that people go on holiday, and there's no pressure of not taking your PTO, but policies regarding working remotely or from home still lag behind certain other countries.

4) The job market is quite hot, but if you come with good experience from the US you should not have too much trouble finding a job. Dubai is a haven for a lot of Asian expats, so there will be a lot of job applications for a given job posting. A lot of these applications are complete garbage, with people just applying to anything they can without necessarily being qualified (but it creates a lot of noise). Approaching people for coffee on LinkedIn might be a good middle ground, as recruiting is very network driven here.

5) To be honest I'm not a fan of recruiting agencies. If you Google you'll find a few names, but they're a hit or miss when it comes to hiring. A lot of roles get filled through people's networks, without necessarily a job posting going live or a recruiter being used.

I hope that helps, happy to answer any other questions.

 

Wait so with UMM US experience and a H/S MBA you're telling me I could be retired by 40-45 if I just move to UAE and do deals?

The downside (to some) is spending your 20s and 30s in the UAE.

Or even worse, a place like Saudi or Qatar depending on who you work for.

 
Most Helpful

I worked in the UAE for several years prior to my MBA (both sellside and buyside). Currently in London/NYC and *strongly* considering going back. Here is a relatively unbiased view, good and bad:

1. UAE is one of the safest places in the world, although this is changing somewhat - friends have had cars stolen etc. recently, and we have noticed other more minor things happening. Still, a utopia compared to NYC/London/anywhere in the west, ESPECIALLY for women

2. Comp is generally in line with the US and tax free, but not everywhere - YMMV. Many places will try to lowball you, especially when coming from Europe. The big brand SWF's are usually good for comp, as are the international banks etc. - I would stay well away from any regional private sector houses (i.e. regional IBs, regional funds etc. - unless of course they are part of a global franchise)

3. Your experience WILL be perceived as "lesser" compared to counterparts in Europe/US - even if you are underwriting the same deals lol. People have ingrained biases and see the middle east as dumb money / deep pockets / no DD etc etc which is incredibly frustrating. That can be an issue for people trying to move back, and if you hold aspirations of moving to high tier firms in London/NYC, honestly don't bother coming to Dubai - not worth the stress. That said, with enough hustle and competence it can definitely be done (but you won't be moving from ADIA to KKR Europe buyout, for example, unless ADIA acquires them lol)

4. If you have a family, the UAE is incredible. Help, safety, travel opportunities, incredibly kid friendly etc etc. Abu Dhabi is not good for single people, Dubai is better in that regard

5. The region is on a once-in-a-generation upswing thanks to their hydrocarbons. Sustained high oil prices mean the GCC is awash with cash. Megaprojects abound and the region is highly committed to using this money to diversify their economies both at home and investing abroad. It is going to be a very interesting 10-20 years with many strong tailwinds

6. KSA is the sleeping giant - absolutely insane opportunities there, and sentiment on KSA drives the entire region

7. People are generally happy and grateful to be there - yes, even blue collar workers 

I can sum this all up by saying that the UAE has a social contract in place with expats (85% of the population). They extract your economic productivity to service their own citizens - as an expat you are not entitled to many social services. However, in exchange, you make a tax free income in an incredibly business-friendly environment, with a very comfortable lifestyle that would be impossible to emulate in your home country unless you were super wealthy. It's your choice.

 

Thank you, super detailed and insightful post.

What is WLB and progression like? When do you hit the ceiling? I'm interested only to the extent that stalled progression means stalled comp.

Also what are the hot sectors and what do you mainly work on? Do foreigners tend to get staffed on investment deals abroad instead? ie. you're from Europe and they put you to work on European opportunities

 

I think it varies massively depending on what kind of firm you are at.

When I was a sellside banker there, I worked the same hours I did back in London/NYC. Was expecting it to be sleepier, definitely was not lol. I have heard that certain shops (Moelis in particular) are more chilled, perhaps contrary to their big offices. The Rothschild guys on the other hand look like zombies, but they execute a ton. BB's vary but your experience won't be solid - it's mostly coverage/relationship, heavy lifting is done out of London.

Buyside varies hugely - I was in an active group so hours weren't great, but was also in a quasi-governmental organisation so not quite as bad as white shoe PE. The SWF's typically have more chill hours due to the nature of their work (mix of direct, FoF, co-invest etc.), so if you're at ADIA you basically just recieve ribbon-wrapped DD packages from GP's (where you are also often an LP) and push that through with little effort. Most SWF's don't do control investments, but rather significant minority (esp. Mubadala) so that will also impact your learning. In my mind there are no strong regional PE firms and I would avoid them like the plague, and the best GP's out there are satellites of big established names.

Glass ceiling definitely exists in SWF's (not GP's) but honestly I wouldn't worry about it - there are senior managers / group heads who are expats, but you will never get to C-suite / board level etc. Which honestly is fine when you are clipping $1m+ cash tax free as a senior at ADIA with a relatively chilled WLB; who cares? 5 years in that seat and you're pretty much set.

In terms of sectors, varies again - they have pretty much all strategies and geographies at the SWF's (GP's have particular tilts). The big SWF's tend to focus on opportunities in the Americas/Europe but also have regional investing teams. Mubadala for instance has sector verticals which cover all products - e.g. a life sciences team that can do public equity, private equity, FoF, co-invest etc.

Feel free to PM!

 

This is seriously the most underrated career option. Imagine making Assoc/VP cash comp tax free AND your company pays for your rent, plane tickets, school fees, etc. I would also expect WLB at a place like ADIA to be relatively chill, especially if you end up in a role like FoF. So you basically spend a few years chilling in the Abu Dhabi sunshine, and then come back home with seven figures in the bank. Seems like a good deal.

 

AD is stupidly laid back. Very good quality of life and one of the safest places I’ve ever been (spent lots of time there). Would recommend if you want a good life, but a quieter one

 

This sounds like a big decision that you should speak to people at the firm about if you get an offer. Yes what’s been said is correct there are hookers and “models” who live in Abu Dhabi but being a single working woman is a COMPLETELY different story and maybe that’s not something you should look to when figuring out how women are treated over there.

That being said, I think a lot of the people at the fund you’re talking about are westerners.

 

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